[REL] Operation Monsun

[Bosje]

Originally Posted by lurker_hlb3

Install with JSGME in the following order for RFB + RSRDC:


RFB_v15x_mmddyy
RFB_patches (if required)
RSRDC_RFBv15_v395_RC5
RSRDC_V395_Patch 4
OM V400
OM V400 Patch 4

when i say i installed RFB underneat OpMon i mean that I installed OpMon on top of PE4, RFB, RSRD as per your instructions

so my setup is this:
PE4
RFB
RSRD
OpMon
RUIM

what i meant by that post is that I remembered reading about the issue in one of the readme files or instructions or manuals or comments about one of those mods, which I failed to find again

edit: i see the source of confusion. underneath was meant to indicate that the other mods were installed over it, not at the bottom of the mod list

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by Bosje

when i say i installed RFB underneat OpMon i mean that I installed OpMon on top of PE4, RFB, RSRD as per your instructions

so my setup is this:
PE4
RFB
RSRD
OpMon
RUIM

what i meant by that post is that I remembered reading about the issue in one of the readme files or instructions or manuals or comments about one of those mods, which I failed to find again

edit: i see the source of confusion. underneath was meant to indicate that the other mods were installed over it, not at the bottom of the mod list

So what Uboat are you using ?

[Bosje]

The screenshots are from my second patrol (nov '39) in a Type II

I had the issue with a type VII as well in a career starting from september 1940.

I just started another career on the side on a type IX to see what happens there, just waiting for contacts atm. one thing I have noticed so far is that the green efficiency bar is more filled with the IX and its 5 watchmen than it was on the type II.

I should add that I have the habit of sacking the Lieutenants in charge of the 2nd and 3rd watch crews and replacing them with Fahnrichs (I dont like having a whole bunch of full lieutenants and I like seeing new guys gain experience)

it shouldnt make too much of a difference though because I'm at battle stations near contacts, should it? I don't remember having this issue with any fleet boat careers where I do the same thing

ps i never messed around with the type II crew because the officer and nco recruitment seems to be bugged in some way, all i may have done is recruit some of those apprentice seamen who have skills in the 30s

[Lexandro]

Ok did a little more checking and it also happens with a VIIb boat. I think I might have an idea of whats going on. New career, new boat, first enemy encounter on first partol. I made contact with a merchant and watched it all the way up to 450 yards with no problems, the crew had spotted it way out at long range. I was submered so I thought I would pull down the scope deliberately loose the visual contact to re-aquire it and see what happened. Well what happened was the thing vanished in clear sight. When I popped the scope back up a second later I could clearly see it but the crew didnt notice it after they had lost it visualy the first time. Here's two pics to illustrate;

Picture 1


Picture 2


As you can see its easily viewable in the scope, its 2pm and clear blue skies. Note the pad, no ship is noted (easy aim mode) and the course details are from when it was first "lost" from contact. In the second picture you can see the ship has continued on another 10 degrees to starboard and still no visual contact was made. The game did not update the contact again until well after I had force targeted with L to lock and it had gone much further away.



Hope that helps a bit.

[lurker_hlb3]

Ok

for both of you, do the following. Uninstall Patch 4, go to \OM_V400_Patch4\Data\Cfg\ and remove Sensors.cfg, then re-install Patch 4 and tell me what happens

[Lexandro]

Originally Posted by lurker_hlb3

Ok

for both of you, do the following. Uninstall Patch 4, go to \OM_V400_Patch4\Data\Cfg\ and remove Sensors.cfg, then re-install Patch 4 and tell me what happens

Ok did that, results are positive so far. Using the save from the above pictures I once again watched the ship come up close, this time to 1400 yards. I dropped the periscope and waited for the contact to be lost again. I then put the scope back up and instantly re-aquired the target on my starboard side. So on first glance this file removal appears to have sorted it. I will play my campaign game further and see how it is for a longer game session.

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by Lexandro

Ok did that, results are positive so far. Using the save from the above pictures I once again watched the ship come up close, this time to 1400 yards. I dropped the periscope and waited for the contact to be lost again. I then put the scope back up and instantly re-aquired the target on my starboard side. So on first glance this file removal appears to have sorted it. I will play my campaign game further and see how it is for a longer game session.

Ok that tells me what I want to know. I guess it time to make some ajustments

[Will-Rommel]

Hi,

Just wanted to add that i also experienced this issue, but i tought it was maybe caused by a conflict between an environmental mod and OP monsun.

All in all, i'm very happy if it can be solved!

[cgjimeneza]

quick one...

with patch 400 did you remove the sunk ship markers?

I only managed to play with op monsun until yesterday and when going back to port I noticed my map was missing the 3 red sinking silouttes---

any idea¿

[Bosje]

Ok here are some screenies from my type IX. sept '39, first war patrol, inexperienced crew

yesterday (with the original opmon patch 4)
#1


#2



I was not aware that there was a contact nearby so I did not have any warning, first sign of contact was this 'ship spotted' as i got thrown out of 512x TC

I took the first screenie and went to crash dive, but the target was already zigzagging (so spotted me at the same time or even before my watch spotted her)

The second screenie is one minute later, the camera is exactly above the sub but i raised it high to show how close the target actually is. I forgot to take a precise range but I believe it was around 1400 meters

on the first screenshot the target appears to be quite far, but you can see how close she really is. through the binoculars she was very clear and very large but I have no screenie of that due to the crash dive. (making my way back up to periscope depth on the 2nd screenie but the target is already turning, while she came straight me on the first screenshot)

--

After removing the sensors.cfg from patch 4. loaded up a saved game some 3 days gametime earlier in this patrol: same patrol, same date, roughly the same conditions (lines on the water from zipping through on 2048x TC, waiting for the contact)

TC freeze up alerted me to enemy presence and we listen around. 2 contacts nearby. First thing that struck me is that the hydrophone guy seems to be more efficient as he called a contact at 15km range. The crew is not at battle stations.

I know she is there this time, so I keep an eye on her as I can very very vaguely see a plume of smoke on the horizon at around 3km away, with a hint of a hull underneath. weather looks like it's a clear day but I guess the horizon is foggy. I do not try to lock the target in the UZO and I do not go to battle stations, I am now waiting for the crew to notice her. The crew call her at 2500 meters, while she is still barely visible. So this appears to be alright: (you can see her if you look closely in the right corner of the binocs)
#3


outflanking on the surface, a couple minutes later the crew call her again (mouse pointer is on the contact)
#4



-
so far so good, i line up for attack
duds at 90 degree angle shots, but never mind. i got her in the end with tubes 5 and 6. crew remain on battle stations to reload the tubes while I go after the other nearby target (she's audible on the hydrophone)

one hour gametime later, crew have been at action stations for an hour now and fatigue levels are roughly at 30/100 on average but the green efficiency bar is still at 100% for the bridgewatch

I am close to the second target and I wait for the crew to call her in the same timely fashion, expecting a confirmation that removing the sensors.cfg from patch4 has indeed sorted it... but...
#5



this is the first visual sighting on the second contact, you can see the time on all sightings
range at this sighting is 1700 meters. the only difference with yesterday's screenshots (the first two on this post) is that the target is slightly further away (about 300 meters) and is not taking evasive action at any point during the action. I line up for shots at 80 degrees instead of 90, fire 2 torpedoes and get detonation on both, she goes down fast

[edit: As already mentioned the first contact in this post (screenie 1 and 2, with the original patch4) I was at 512x TC
After removing sensors.cfg from patch4 (screenshots 3,4,5) I was in realtime at the time of sighting on screenie 3 and at around 8xTC at the sighting on screenie4. while waiting for the last contact (screenie 5) i was in 64x TC. Don't know if it matters but those are the details.]

So, for gameplay purposes I am happy with the results so far, because I am able to sink ships without being spotted myself (which feels 'right')

I still think that a Uboat bridgewatch should have spotted that last contact a lot earlier though
its just such a far cry from the whole debate about 9km or 18km visibility which has been raised so often. Again, on this fine day it seems that visibility is a mere 3km at best. PE4 might be a factor?

hope it helps, i'll keep going on this patrol and report back if i get night time engagements

cheers

edited for clarity

second edit: almost impossible to see her on screenshots 3 and 4, here is a zoom from screenshot 3
this is the initial sighting by the crew AFTER removing sensors.cfg from patch4. Not at action stations. range at this time is 2500 meters
(the point being that this is the kind of crew behaviour i would expect, but an hour later they are severely less efficient)
zoom in from #3

[Bosje]

new report: visual sighting at 8000 meters at night (clear night, ok, but this is the other extreme, lol) not at action stations although the sonar guy just reported the ship being there, so the crew are 'aware' or something. I couldn't see the ship myself but that's also because it's a dark screen while the sun is shining in real life, lol

I'm lost now and i'll keep going on this patrol, see if there is any consistancy to be had

edit: Weather tonight
5:00: Navigator: Current weather conditions: clear skies, no rain, excellent visibility, wind 15 meters/second

[Lexandro]

The weather getting worse and your crew getting more and more fatigued will reduce the chance of spotting units. I would say the results above are fine imo.

In my case with my US boat all is good. I can spot targets at long range with my trained watchmen, and always get updated if they are within visual range and are visable. I Have not tried my IX boat yet but im expecting similar results with a trained crew.

[Bosje]

excellent visibility conditions:
followed a contact during the night, visual sighting at daybreak at a range of 10 km

sailed out of range, save and exit to windows.
unloaded [patch4 without sensors.cfg], put sensors back in from a backup copy. loaded the [original patch4 with sensors] and started the game, reloaded the save game and went back to the contact.
Ship spotted at a range of 11 km (so that is WITH the original patch4 sensors.cfg)
visibility still 'excellent'

So from where I am sitting, I am getting fine results in clear visibility, both with and without the sensors.cfg from patch 4

the problem starts when the game decides visibility is less than excellent. thats where ships are spotted very very late, regardless of patch4. The fact that I can see the ships myself under those conditions makes it seem like the crew is crap

that's my best guess at the issue, after running around for a while in various weather conditions. crew fatigue is a slight factor, as it should be

thanks for the assistance, lurker

I'll keep running around to confirm, the other option is to remove PE4 and see how that changes the weather conditions, but I like the graphics too much, lol

(this all depends on whether or not I can safely mess around with the mods like that, while on patrol, with savegames near enemy ships)

Without censors.cfg -ship spotted at 10.8 km



After putting censors.cfg back in, reloading the save game and steaming back to the target -ship spotted at 11 km
edit: I just realised: I never got the 'ship spotted', but the TC went to 1x and the ship showed on the map at 11 km and I assumed it was all ok. could be relevant, could be trivial

[Orion2012]

Originally Posted by Lexandro

The weather getting worse and your crew getting more and more fatigued will reduce the chance of spotting units. I would say the results above are fine imo.

In my case with my US boat all is good. I can spot targets at long range with my trained watchmen, and always get updated if they are within visual range and are visable. I Have not tried my IX boat yet but im expecting similar results with a trained crew.

Thats easily tested. The last line of the sensors.cfg is "uses crew efficency" if it is edited to false their stamina shouldn't be an issue in detection.

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by cgjimeneza

quick one...

with patch 400 did you remove the sunk ship markers?

I only managed to play with op monsun until yesterday and when going back to port I noticed my map was missing the 3 red sinking silouttes---

any idea¿

No I didn't remove it.