Here we go again-Ukraine once again - Page 54

Catfish · 02-23-22, 03:14 AM

“I said, ‘This is genius,'” [...] “Putin declared a big portion of … Ukraine … as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. … I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force. … We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep the peace all right. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...asion-1311025/

https://www.rawstory.com/mike-pompeo-2656771461/

Skybird · 02-23-22, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish;2794881Z

And no one will intervene.

They are no alliance member and we can be thankful for that. But we could have armed them to the teeth with ATGMs, SAMs and shoulderpad AAMs. The British and Americans at the end did right this. Considering the long frontlines the numbers just do not match. In the end the Germans deny them the capability to fight for and defend themselves, and thats so shabby that I will never forgive Germany this latest of its many, many pseudo-moral lecturings to the world.

Catfish · 02-23-22, 05:02 AM

^ I agree wholeheartedly, hoping the best and trying to appease was obviously wrong once more, in history. I am waiting for a comment from Schroeder, or Merkel ..

Quoting myself:
"First the eastern regions, then occupying the next region with a direct access to Sevastopol, then the rest of Ukraine."

So should the EU or at least Germany send military material to the Ukraine? A bit late, but..

And since Mr Putin loves to surprise us so much, what about surprising him? Let the still free bigger part of Ukraine join NATO next week.

Jimbuna · 02-23-22, 06:13 AM

Ukraine has urged citizens living in Russia to leave the country immediately.

Up to three million Ukrainians are believed to live in Russia and many people have family in both countries.

A state of emergency is to be declared in Ukraine, lasting 30 days, the country's top security official says.

Ukraine is also conscripting reservists into the regular military as it braces for a possible invasion by its neighbour.

Western countries and their allies have imposed sanctions on Russian banks and MPs, as the crisis escalates.

But critics, among them the UK's Labour Party, say the measures so far are not strong enough.

It's not clear if any new Russian troops have yet been sent into the two regions, which are run by Moscow-backed separatists.

Jimbuna · 02-23-22, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

“I said, ‘This is genius,'” [...] “Putin declared a big portion of … Ukraine … as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. … I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force. … We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep the peace all right. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...asion-1311025/

https://www.rawstory.com/mike-pompeo-2656771461/

Unbelievable!

Jimbuna · 02-23-22, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Boris Johnson "misspoke" when he claimed Chelsea Football Club's Russian owner Roman Abramovich faced sanctions, his spokesman has said.

During a statement in the House of Commons setting out measures against Russia, Mr Johnson said Mr Abramovich was "already facing sanctions".

But Labour's Chris Bryant later raised a point of order to ask about the accuracy of his remarks.

The prime minister's official spokesman said the PM would correct the record.

Mr Abramovich has had issues with his UK visa before - but has not been sanctioned.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60485759

Boris, the gift that keeps on giving

Jimbuna · 02-23-22, 07:04 AM

A proposed meeting between Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin is "certainly is not in the plans" anymore, the White House's spokesperson has said.

Jen Psaki added that tensions over the planned invasion of Ukraine would have to ease before such a meeting took place.

President Vladimir Putin has said Russia is still open to diplomacy but will put its national security interests first.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has cancelled a meeting with Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, which had been planned for Thursday in Geneva.

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said Russian troops sent into Luhansk and Donetsk "are not peacekeepers at all".

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the UK was sanctioning five Russian banks and three oligarchs, freezing their UK assets and banning travel to Britain.

The EU issued sanctions aimed at 351 Russian politicians who voted to recognise the breakaway regions.

Australia, Canada, Japan, and Germany were also among the countries to announce sanctions on Russia.

Also on Tuesday, US President Joe Biden announced the first wave of sanctions against Russia, affecting Russian banks, oligarchs, and the country's sovereign debt.

He told reporters that Russian troops being ordered to eastern Ukraine after Mr Putin recognised the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk marked the "beginning of an invasion".

sublynx · 02-23-22, 07:32 AM

The sanctions are even weaker than expected. I guess Biden talking about gas prices in his speech about Putin's invasion decision tells all we need to know.

mapuc · 02-23-22, 08:07 AM

Do you agree on what Ukrainian say-That their struggle is also our struggle ?

Quote:

The Ukrainians have constantly said that this is not only their war with Russia, but the whole of the Western world. They may turn out to be right. "

https://www-bt-dk.translate.goog/udl..._x_tr_pto=wapp

Markus

Jimbuna · 02-23-22, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublynx

The sanctions are even weaker than expected. I guess Biden talking about gas prices in his speech about Putin's invasion decision tells all we need to know.

Yes, I was certainly feeling underwhelmed.

mapuc · 02-23-22, 08:17 AM

JEF are scheduled to conduct a huge exercise in Denmark.

Quote:

The announcement came after a meeting of the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF), a British-led grouping made up of Denmark, Estonia, Finland and Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-...pe-2022-02-22/

Markus

Skybird · 02-23-22, 10:02 AM

Der Tagesspiegel writes:

These are harsh, ominous sentences: Ukraine will probably soon cease to exist as an independent state. Vladimir Putin must be taken at his word. To believe that the conflict is only about Ukraine is pure wishful thinking. China will exploit the current ties of U.S. forces to Europe to attack Taiwan, he said.

This is what Robert Kagan, one of the most influential American intellectuals, writes in the "Washington Post." Kagan's word carries weight, his mind is sharp, his strategic expertise unquestioned. He is one of the best-known neoconservatives in the United States, specializing in foreign and security policy.

Kagan advised Republican presidential candidates John McCain and Mitt Romney. He fell out with Donald Trump, accused him of "fascism" and resigned from the Republican Party. Kagan's analysis of the geopolitical crisis surrounding Ukraine deserves attention.

According to Kagan, Putin will occupy all of Ukraine. Russian troops would then be right on the borders with Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. NATO would be immediately challenged. The situation would be most precarious for the three Baltic states - Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

Will NATO protect them militarily in an emergency? Kagan has doubts. "The ability of the U.S. and NATO to defend the eastern flank of the alliance will be very limited." The dispute could ignite over Putin's demand to maintain a direct land link to the Russian enclave around the former Königsberg.

Kagan rejects the objection that Russia cannot afford to occupy Ukraine because it must constantly fear attacks on its troops. An uprising against the occupying power would only be successful with support from neighboring countries. "Will Poland take that on, with Russian troops right on its border? The Baltic states? Or Hungary?" That would give Moscow an excuse to attack those countries as well.

In any case, Chinese President Xi Jinping is the laughing stock of the development. Putin's aggression tied the bulk of U.S. forces to Europe, enabling China to take over Taiwan. Russia and China were behaving similarly, Kagan writes, to Germany and Japan in World War II. "They are not truly allied, do not trust each other, and do not directly coordinate their strategies. Yet they benefit from each other."

The U.S., in turn, would be overwhelmed by two major conflicts. The "two-war doctrine," according to which America must be able to fight two wars against major powers simultaneously, was declared obsolete in 2012, he said. "The map of Europe has undergone many changes over the past centuries," Kagan summarizes.

"At present, it reflects the expansion of American power and the collapse of Russian military power. Next, it will reflect the return of Russian military power and the waning of American influence." In tandem with Chinese power expansion in East Asia and the Western Pacific region, she said, the beginning of an "age of global disorder" is emerging.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

I deeply hope he is wrong. I start fearing he is not.

Jimbuna · 02-23-22, 10:09 AM

^ There could well be some realistic inevitability in the above.

sublynx · 02-23-22, 10:18 AM

I agree. Kagan's analysis seems very much like one possible scenario. If Putin acts ruthlessly enough he might discover NATO paralysed by lack of political will.

Skybird · 02-23-22, 10:28 AM

This is the Donald's revealing insights on the matter.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...isis-rcna17259

We probably must consider ourselves still lucky that it is Biden sitting in the White House currently. And I have already indicated that I think Biden'S reaction is weak and the US sanctions unimpressive, haven't I.

Putin'S timing is perfect. He struck at a time when all the West's weaknesses came together. Corona, debts, gas, French elections, British Johnson, German tricoalition, Westenr self-dwarfening, Western cost-explosion, Chinese culmination of willingness to confront the US. It all comes together and plays into Russia's play.

Meanwhile the German economy and climate minister, a Green man, reiterated twice on TV that it was not Scholz but his own ministry, and so himself, freezing NS2. The SPD internally is still at war with itself with parts of it calling NATO the bigger threat in all this, and the SED opposition condemns the step to freeze NS2 and wants Germany to close ties with Russia and opening the pipeline.

Let everybody be warned of the Germans. I would not trust them at all, and when they claim 1 + 1 is 2, I would check the calculation twice and three times.

02-23-22, 03:14 AM	#796
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	“I said, ‘This is genius,'” [...] “Putin declared a big portion of … Ukraine … as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. … I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force. … We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep the peace all right. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.” https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...asion-1311025/ https://www.rawstory.com/mike-pompeo-2656771461/ __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 02-23-22 at 03:22 AM.*

02-23-22, 05:02 AM	#798
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ I agree wholeheartedly, hoping the best and trying to appease was obviously wrong once more, in history. I am waiting for a comment from Schroeder, or Merkel .. Quoting myself: "First the eastern regions, then occupying the next region with a direct access to Sevastopol, then the rest of Ukraine." So should the EU or at least Germany send military material to the Ukraine? A bit late, but.. And since Mr Putin loves to surprise us so much, what about surprising him? Let the still free bigger part of Ukraine join NATO next week. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 02-23-22 at 06:45 AM.*

02-23-22, 06:13 AM	#799
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,240 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Ukraine has urged citizens living in Russia to leave the country immediately. Up to three million Ukrainians are believed to live in Russia and many people have family in both countries. A state of emergency is to be declared in Ukraine, lasting 30 days, the country's top security official says. Ukraine is also conscripting reservists into the regular military as it braces for a possible invasion by its neighbour. Western countries and their allies have imposed sanctions on Russian banks and MPs, as the crisis escalates. But critics, among them the UK's Labour Party, say the measures so far are not strong enough. It's not clear if any new Russian troops have yet been sent into the two regions, which are run by Moscow-backed separatists. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

02-23-22, 07:04 AM	#802
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,240 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A proposed meeting between Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin is "certainly is not in the plans" anymore, the White House's spokesperson has said. Jen Psaki added that tensions over the planned invasion of Ukraine would have to ease before such a meeting took place. President Vladimir Putin has said Russia is still open to diplomacy but will put its national security interests first. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has cancelled a meeting with Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, which had been planned for Thursday in Geneva. UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said Russian troops sent into Luhansk and Donetsk "are not peacekeepers at all". UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the UK was sanctioning five Russian banks and three oligarchs, freezing their UK assets and banning travel to Britain. The EU issued sanctions aimed at 351 Russian politicians who voted to recognise the breakaway regions. Australia, Canada, Japan, and Germany were also among the countries to announce sanctions on Russia. Also on Tuesday, US President Joe Biden announced the first wave of sanctions against Russia, affecting Russian banks, oligarchs, and the country's sovereign debt. He told reporters that Russian troops being ordered to eastern Ukraine after Mr Putin recognised the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk marked the "beginning of an invasion". __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

02-23-22, 07:32 AM	#803
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	The sanctions are even weaker than expected. I guess Biden talking about gas prices in his speech about Putin's invasion decision tells all we need to know. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

02-23-22, 10:02 AM	#807
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,501 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Der Tagesspiegel writes: These are harsh, ominous sentences: Ukraine will probably soon cease to exist as an independent state. Vladimir Putin must be taken at his word. To believe that the conflict is only about Ukraine is pure wishful thinking. China will exploit the current ties of U.S. forces to Europe to attack Taiwan, he said. This is what Robert Kagan, one of the most influential American intellectuals, writes in the "Washington Post." Kagan's word carries weight, his mind is sharp, his strategic expertise unquestioned. He is one of the best-known neoconservatives in the United States, specializing in foreign and security policy. Kagan advised Republican presidential candidates John McCain and Mitt Romney. He fell out with Donald Trump, accused him of "fascism" and resigned from the Republican Party. Kagan's analysis of the geopolitical crisis surrounding Ukraine deserves attention. According to Kagan, Putin will occupy all of Ukraine. Russian troops would then be right on the borders with Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. NATO would be immediately challenged. The situation would be most precarious for the three Baltic states - Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Will NATO protect them militarily in an emergency? Kagan has doubts. "The ability of the U.S. and NATO to defend the eastern flank of the alliance will be very limited." The dispute could ignite over Putin's demand to maintain a direct land link to the Russian enclave around the former Königsberg. Kagan rejects the objection that Russia cannot afford to occupy Ukraine because it must constantly fear attacks on its troops. An uprising against the occupying power would only be successful with support from neighboring countries. "Will Poland take that on, with Russian troops right on its border? The Baltic states? Or Hungary?" That would give Moscow an excuse to attack those countries as well. In any case, Chinese President Xi Jinping is the laughing stock of the development. Putin's aggression tied the bulk of U.S. forces to Europe, enabling China to take over Taiwan. Russia and China were behaving similarly, Kagan writes, to Germany and Japan in World War II. "They are not truly allied, do not trust each other, and do not directly coordinate their strategies. Yet they benefit from each other." The U.S., in turn, would be overwhelmed by two major conflicts. The "two-war doctrine," according to which America must be able to fight two wars against major powers simultaneously, was declared obsolete in 2012, he said. "The map of Europe has undergone many changes over the past centuries," Kagan summarizes. "At present, it reflects the expansion of American power and the collapse of Russian military power. Next, it will reflect the return of Russian military power and the waning of American influence." In tandem with Chinese power expansion in East Asia and the Western Pacific region, she said, the beginning of an "age of global disorder" is emerging. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) I deeply hope he is wrong. I start fearing he is not. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-23-22, 10:09 AM	#808
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,240 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ There could well be some realistic inevitability in the above. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

02-23-22, 10:18 AM	#809
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	I agree. Kagan's analysis seems very much like one possible scenario. If Putin acts ruthlessly enough he might discover NATO paralysed by lack of political will. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

02-23-22, 10:28 AM	#810
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,501 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	This is the Donald's revealing insights on the matter. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...isis-rcna17259 We probably must consider ourselves still lucky that it is Biden sitting in the White House currently. And I have already indicated that I think Biden'S reaction is weak and the US sanctions unimpressive, haven't I. Putin'S timing is perfect. He struck at a time when all the West's weaknesses came together. Corona, debts, gas, French elections, British Johnson, German tricoalition, Westenr self-dwarfening, Western cost-explosion, Chinese culmination of willingness to confront the US. It all comes together and plays into Russia's play. Meanwhile the German economy and climate minister, a Green man, reiterated twice on TV that it was not Scholz but his own ministry, and so himself, freezing NS2. The SPD internally is still at war with itself with parts of it calling NATO the bigger threat in all this, and the SED opposition condemns the step to freeze NS2 and wants Germany to close ties with Russia and opening the pipeline. Let everybody be warned of the Germans. I would not trust them at all, and when they claim 1 + 1 is 2, I would check the calculation twice and three times. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 02-23-22 at 11:29 AM.