Advice for 1968 Sturgeon

[Tirak]

How are you supposed to do surface attack in the 1968 boats? Mk.16s guarantee kills, but the escorts hear them and the convoy turns. Mk.37s are excruciatingly slow and so are no good for side angle shots because the wire will break and the escorts will detect the torpedo, so that by the time it goes active there's no convoy in sight of the sensor.

Should I be sneaking in behind them, sprinting in close and letting out spreads of Mk.37s, or will the escorts not hear Mk.16s if i'm in the convoy's baffles?

[jenrick]

What I've had good results with:

Use the MK37 on the escorts, as they can and will evade a MK16 most of the time. A MK37 will either drive them away (and after a protracted tail chase, might even kill them) or at least get them to maneuver. In 1968 the escorts have to be a lot closer to attack you (RBU's and depth charges mainly), so forcing them away solves that problem.

If the main target is a military ship that has a pretty decent chance of evading a torpedo spread (so warhships rather support ships), I'll again us the MK37 as it will at least track. It is slow enough that most ships just run and turn, in that time period it's about 50/50 on if the target has the speed to outrun it. Regardless of if the MK37 will catch the target, they have now created a straight movement vector that I can try the MK16 with. If you can set it up so they are running directly away from you, a MK16 fired straight at them (basically overtaking the MK37) has worked fairly well for me.

Regardless of ship type if I can get close undetected (3kyds or less), I'll try a 3 torpedo spread of MK16's. I center on on the blue intercept dot, and then a half targeting box (the little blue box) fore and aft on the track. Honestly being able to set torpedo dispersion would be handy here. This has worked reasonably well, but I do get a lot of evading targets too. The second they start to turn I'll fire off whatever MK37's I have available, to hopefully chase them down.

For convoys (the stop the amphibious landing missions for instance), I'll put a whole spread of every tube I've got into the pack from abeam if possible. I'm not trying to be picky, I'm trying to guarantee at least a couple of kills of the transports. That's all it takes to succeed on the mission from what I've seen.

Overall it's a bit like being a skipper in SH4, and using the TDC for the whole engagement. Get in close, then closer, then even closer, and shoot enough torpedo's to make the whole process woth it. I'd love to be able to shoot from the periscope as I've been close enough to have basically treated the engagement as a convoy engagement from WW2, and it would have actually been a lot simpler and faster to use the O'Kane method rather then messing with the indicator dot.

I'll toss in that I've had my best success with the Skipjack. In 1968 what's being shot at you is very similar to WW2, go fast, maneuver hard, and change in the vertical, you can dodge a lot of what is tossed at you while closing to within a reasonable range of your target. I like the extra few knots the Skipjack gets me once it's time to crank the throttle to full or flank.

-Jenrick

[Waervyn]

Originally Posted by jenrick

What I've had good results with:

Use the MK37 on the escorts, as they can and will evade a MK16 most of the time. A MK37 will either drive them away (and after a protracted tail chase, might even kill them) or at least get them to maneuver. In 1968 the escorts have to be a lot closer to attack you (RBU's and depth charges mainly), so forcing them away solves that problem.

If the main target is a military ship that has a pretty decent chance of evading a torpedo spread (so warhships rather support ships), I'll again us the MK37 as it will at least track. It is slow enough that most ships just run and turn, in that time period it's about 50/50 on if the target has the speed to outrun it. Regardless of if the MK37 will catch the target, they have now created a straight movement vector that I can try the MK16 with. If you can set it up so they are running directly away from you, a MK16 fired straight at them (basically overtaking the MK37) has worked fairly well for me.

Regardless of ship type if I can get close undetected (3kyds or less), I'll try a 3 torpedo spread of MK16's. I center on on the blue intercept dot, and then a half targeting box (the little blue box) fore and aft on the track. Honestly being able to set torpedo dispersion would be handy here. This has worked reasonably well, but I do get a lot of evading targets too. The second they start to turn I'll fire off whatever MK37's I have available, to hopefully chase them down.

For convoys (the stop the amphibious landing missions for instance), I'll put a whole spread of every tube I've got into the pack from abeam if possible. I'm not trying to be picky, I'm trying to guarantee at least a couple of kills of the transports. That's all it takes to succeed on the mission from what I've seen.

Overall it's a bit like being a skipper in SH4, and using the TDC for the whole engagement. Get in close, then closer, then even closer, and shoot enough torpedo's to make the whole process woth it. I'd love to be able to shoot from the periscope as I've been close enough to have basically treated the engagement as a convoy engagement from WW2, and it would have actually been a lot simpler and faster to use the O'Kane method rather then messing with the indicator dot.

I'll toss in that I've had my best success with the Skipjack. In 1968 what's being shot at you is very similar to WW2, go fast, maneuver hard, and change in the vertical, you can dodge a lot of what is tossed at you while closing to within a reasonable range of your target. I like the extra few knots the Skipjack gets me once it's time to crank the throttle to full or flank.

-Jenrick

Very helpful reply, thanks!

[Tirak]

Thanks for the information, a lot of great stuff in there I'll work to applying. Would you recommend Mk.37s on passive or active? I've been making most of my shots on active, and I've seen the AI try to go dead in the water like they're trying to spoof a passive torpedo, but I've also heard that passive mode is incredibly effective, though they're always talking about the Mk.84, and I'm not entirely sure how applicable advice for the Mk.84 is sensor wise on the Mk.37.

[Aktungbby]

Tirak! after a half-decade silent run!

[Tirak]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Tirak! after a half-decade silent run!

Holy crap it has been five years. I joined up originally for SHIII, but never felt I had anything decent to add, and by the time I got into the game, there were so many guides there was no point in asking questions, the answers were already out there.

[jenrick]

Thanks for the information, a lot of great stuff in there I'll work to applying. Would you recommend Mk.37s on passive or active? I've been making most of my shots on active, and I've seen the AI try to go dead in the water like they're trying to spoof a passive torpedo, but I've also heard that passive mode is incredibly effective, though they're always talking about the Mk.84, and I'm not entirely sure how applicable advice for the Mk.84 is sensor wise on the Mk.37.

Historically the US Navy recommend active unless you had good sonar conditions, and expected the threat to be either cavitating or making 60 db over ambient noise. I have no clue exactly how sensitive the seeker is modeled in CW. So with all that said, here's roughly how I shoot them:

Subs:
-If I'm in the baffles and I think I can sneak the fish close (2K yds or less) - passive
-Boats that will be noisy when they run and I'm not feeling like the wire will make it all the way there - passive (less chance of alerting them on a long range shot if it enables sooner then is ideal)
-Quieter boats - active
-Snap shots and head on shots - active

Surface
-If I'm in the baffles and I think I can sneak the fish close (2K yds or less) - passive
-Targets that I know the Mk37 can run down, and I'm not worried about anyone knowing there a torpedo in the water - active
-Escorts that I'm trying to eliminate and I'm close (2k yds or less) - passive
-Escorts that I'm trying to drive off - active

In general I use passive to decrease the torpedoes signature to try and sneak it on target. To me at least, it seems to allow for a lower profile, particularly if I can dog leg the torpedo in rather then shooting a direct bearing (breaking wires can make this an exercise in frustration however). Long range shots where I'm playing the odds on the target still being in the area, etc. I like to use passive as even if I miscalculated there's not a torpedo pinging around somewhere. I've had a few occasions where my miss went completely unnoticed. The MK37 works very well against slower non-maneuverable surface ships, they don't have noise makers so all they can do is run in a straight line at full throttle. The perfect target for a passive seeker. The same largely applies to diesel boats, and first gen nuke boats. They may get lucky with a noisemaker or two, but in general it's a solid chance at a hit.

I use active when I want the world to know there's a torpedo in the water, either to drive an escort off, or to force a change in course from a target (I've almost gotten a tender to turn into a spread of MK16's this way, but no luck so far). I also use it when I want to raise my chances at scoring a hit, particularly when I'm unlikely to be able to keep the wires (like in the middle of a knife fight). If it's close and nasty (like say the target that you were in the baffles of whips around at the exact wrong moment at 2.5kyds), I shoot them direct on the current bearing (don't worry about the intercept point) set to active with the activation point just a few hundred yds off my own bow. Most of the time this will force the target onto the defensive and you can extend to create distance for a more favorable shot.

If you're a flight simmer as well, think of it as a real slow motion dog fight. Same concepts. Passive is an IR missile, active is a AR or SARH missile. Long distance shots are BVR, and close range is a dogfight. The maneuverings a little different (you can't really yo-yo in the traditional sense), but it actually translates quite well.

One additional thing I'll toss out about the Mk37. If you get one stuck on your tail by accident (let's be honest it's happened to us all), it's not the almost death sentence of a Mk48 even if it's close. If there are still threats, go to flank, and launch a couple more Mk37 set to active in their general direction. The things run for about 20 minutes, so it'll keep everybody busy. If you're driving a Skipjack, just put the throttle to flank and cruise away. Don't play games trying to dodge and decoy it, just drive away and don't waste time. In a Skipjack at flank speed you'll move out it's detection radius in few minutes, and then you can get back to the business of shooting at the enemy. In a Permit worst case it'll take about 10 minutes to get of detection range, but it will work. If your driving a Sturgeon, you'll have to evade unless the torpedo had all ready traveled a good chunk of it's range.

Also one additional tactical note. Don't be afraid to go active if you need to localize a contact NOW, or the sonar conditions are just horrible. You have a pretty good active sonar in any of the '68 boats. If you look at your signal strengths when you have a contact you'll often times see that may have a 10+ signal for your active sonar, while most soviet boats are negative or just barely above zero. Yes they'll get an active intercept just like you will, but that really doesn't tell them anymore then when you get one. Sure with a grease pencil, some time, and a few more pings they can start to do TMA, but ideally you'll already have a pair of MK37's impacting.

-Jenrick