This date in history

[Jimbuna]

Upon the outbreak of war in Europe in September 1939, the USS Reuben James joined the Neutrality Patrol, guarding the Atlantic and Caribbean approaches to the American coast. This escort force guarded convoys as far as Iceland, after which they became the responsibility of British escorts.

She had positioned herself between an ammunition ship in the convoy and the known position of a "wolfpack" when she was torpedoed by U-552 commanded by Kapitänleutnant Erich Topp.

Seven officers and a crew of ninety two enlisted men plus one enlisted passenger perished.

The above occurred on 31st October, long before the US entered the war.

Not until December of that year did Germany bring about the process of reaping what they had sowed (from the US anyway).

[Catfish]

Well i just wrote a lengthy answer, but Subsim once more threw me out so the text is gone Maybe this evening.
The text above is not a lie, but it does not tell the whole truth and background either.

I do not say this because i could not understand Roosevelt, or to justify Hitler or the régime, but after so many years we should cope with what we know, now.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Catfish

but after so many years we should cope with what we know, now.

Talk about gittin' Topp'd off here BBY!

[Jimbuna]

1783 General George Washington, later 1st US President, bids farewell to his army after the American Revolutionary War.

1914 Great Britain declares the entire North Sea a military area: neutral ships will transit it at their own risk.

1943 Jewish ghetto of Riga Latvia is destroyed.

1944 Auschwitz begins gassing inmates.

1992 First test flight of Airbus A330.

2000 The first crew arrives at the International Space Station.

[Aktungbby]

1947: Howard Hughes puts" paid to (some ) of his detractors: the Spruce Goose flies!

Following the U.S. entrance into World War II in 1941, the U.S. government commissioned the Hughes Aircraft Company to build a large flying boat capable of carrying men and materials over long distances. The concept for what would become the “Spruce Goose” was originally conceived by the industrialist Henry Kaiser, but Kaiser dropped out of the project early, leaving Hughes and his small team to make the H-4 a reality. Because of wartime restrictions on steel, Hughes decided to build his aircraft out of wood laminated with plastic and covered with fabric. Although it was constructed mainly of birch, the use of spruce (along with its white-gray color) would later earn the aircraft the nickname Spruce Goose. It had a wingspan of 320 feet and was powered by eight giant propeller engines.
Development of the Spruce Goose cost a phenomenal $23 million and took so long that the war had ended by the time of its completion in 1946. The aircraft had many detractors, and Congress demanded that Hughes prove the plane airworthy. On November 2, 1947, Hughes obliged, taking the H-4 prototype out into Long Beach Harbor, CA for an unannounced flight test. Thousands of onlookers had come to watch the aircraft taxi on the water and were surprised when Hughes lifted his wooden behemoth 70 feet above the water and flew for a mile!

Currently the centerpiece of the Evergreen Aviation & Space Museum in McMinnville OR.; My daughter had a museum archive/docent job there during her college daze so I got to really tour this BBY and even sat in the cockpit!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Well i just wrote a lengthy answer, but Subsim once more threw me out so the text is gone

Type it in NotePad, then copy and paste it to SubSim. That way if it kicks you out (it has done that to me in the past) you can paste it again.

[Catfish]

^ Just did it that way


Regarding the sinking of the »Reuben James« – i think everyone knew that?

The US was not officially at war with Germany when the »Reuben James« sank, but it already was inofficially. All America had done up to this point was done in favour of England and its allies, even if it violated international law.
When England again tried their economic blockade against Germany, it answered with a blockeade of the british Isles, but only the latter lead to an american protest.

The german U-boat commanders were instructed not to fight back, even if actively attacked by US warships and armed merchants, and the commanders stuck to that. Erich Topp, who torpedoed a merchant and sank the USS »Reuben James« in the process, was not accused after the war, became a Rear Admiral, and later chief of the NATO military committee in Washington.

England and the USA on the other hand did all to provoke an incident, as a pretext that would allow an "answer" (the usual excuse "you did it first!"), which could only be a declaration of war to Germany, the latter had to accept not to retaliate while cursing silently, because it did not want a war with the US.

The US "neutrality zone" was theoretically declared and created to prohibit belligerent nations to fight or seize enemy ships within that zone. This zone, which was first only an increased coastal zone around the american east coasts, was later expanded to the mid-atlantic(!).
The belligerent nations and other nations more or less disregarded this though, see Rio de la Plata and the seizing of german merchant ships by England and the US, before december, 1941 (date of german declaration of war to the US).
The US-american "neutrality zone" and surveillance was created in favour of England and its allies though, because of the US government's and president Theodore Roosevelt's pro-allied attitude to help, against Germany and the axis nations, even if claiming "neutrality".

German ships in the US, which were caught off guard by England's declaration of war, either tried to let intern themselves in then-neutral harbours, or tried to get back to Germany or then France, some as blockade runners. The ships that stayed in the then-neutral US harbours, were already seized in 1940, by the "neutral" US.
German ships trying to get back and evade that fate were shadowed by "friendly" US ships, which again continuously sent uncoded position reports. In this way, allied warships could eavesdrop the reports and intercept the german ships. If this happened within the "neutrality zone" on a "neutrality patrol", the US ships just watched and did nothing, while they theoretically were to prohibit all combat operations, and seizing.
(e.g. Dec 8. 1940, Destroyer »Sturtevant« (DD-240) stands by while British light cruiser »HMS Diomede« intercepts German freighter »Idarwald«, Dec 11. 1940 German freighter »Rhein« having been tailed by destroyer »Simpson« (DD-221) and, later, »MacLeish« (DD-220), is intercepted by Dutch destroyer leader »Van Kinsbergen« near the Florida Straits, and is scuttled by her crew to avoid capture. »MacLeish« and »McCormick« (DD-223) are present as the German ship's bid to escape fails, and so on)
If, on the other hand, german U-boats tried to sink british merchants, they were pushed aside by US escorts on their "neutrality patrol", some boats were even depth-charged by US destroyers already in 1940 within the "Neutrality zone".

With the takeover of the "defence" of Greenland, and the invasion of Iceland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Iceland) during april and july 1941, the condition between the USA and the axis nations escalated further.

From now on, US convoys taking the route between the US west coast and Iceland were escorted by US warships, on the same route like the british convoys, between Halifax and Great Britain. Additionally, the USA invited other nation's ships (read: allied) to join those US-escorted convoys.
Germany then accused the USA to provoke an accidental sinking of american ships by german U-boats, and an international incident to have a pretext for war.

The most famous incident happened, when, at september 4th, 1941, the destroyer »USS Greer« was informed about the position of a german U-boat, by an english plane. The boat had just dived to evade the plane. The US destroyer searched and found the german U-652, and informed the english plane about its exact position. The plane then dropped some depth charges. The german commander thought that the destroyer had directly attacked him and fired torpedoes, which all missed. The destroyer then started a depth charge attack, but also did not hit.

The US government took this incident to not hold back anymore against all axis ships, that would be found in the "neutrality zone". By this order, the USA were effectively at war with the axis nations, without an official declaration.
But a shoot-on-sight order was already issued in 1940!

At november 6th, 1941, the cruiser »USS Omaha« and the destroyer »USS Somers« seized the german merchant ship »Odenwald«, in the South Atlantic, on their "neutrality patrol". Being not officially at war, this incident was depicted as a search and rescue mission, but there was even prize money paid by the US.



When the »Reuben James« tried to place itself between Erich Topp's U-552 and the merchant, it ran into the path of Topp's torpedo, and sank. It was not deliberately targeted by Topp, as he writes in the KTB and his memoirs. He did not attack anymore and further wrote that he witnessed a horrible sight in his periscope, that the R. James' sailors jumped into the water, and were then killed by their own depth charges exploding, when their ship sank. Other destroyers joined the scene and threw depth charges into the debris and shipwrecked sailors, expecting the U-boat at the location. Topp was almost a kilometer away though, and turned his boat around not to attack again. He also wrote the action of the allied and US destroyers made him sick, but it was undoubtedly based on the propaganda description of how german U-boats slaughtered shipwrecked persons, and attacking rescue attempts. Which is, as we now know, not quite true.


No doubt wars are bad. The sailors aboard the »Reuben James« suffered and paid for the US policy of the time, even if Roosevelt's point of view can be understood. But regarding the later culture of moaning and condemning just of all the sinking of this ship, in folk songs, books, newspapers and public reception (all blaming this incident on Germany) is imho still propaganda.
It always takes place on the shoulders of common men and brave soldiers, who have to pay for the decisions of their leading politicians.



Sorry for the delay, doesn't quite fit anymore after the Spruce goose.

[Aktungbby]

Sorry for the delay, doesn't quite fit anymore after the Spruce goose.

Well....what could fit after getting yer goose spruced; in retrospect, Germany only really ever broke two immutable rules of war: Never take on "General Winter" on the eastern front...and on the Western Front: "the Atlantic is an English speaking lake!"

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Well....what could fit after getting yer goose spruced; in retrospect, Germany only really ever broke two immutable rules of war: Never take on "General Winter" on the eastern front...and on the Western Front: "the Atlantic is an English speaking lake!"

Hehe yes, but then Germany tried to evade a war with the US, but due to the US policy it was only a matter of time until such a thing like with the »Reuben James« happened. Just posting that those evil Nazis sank a neutral innocent US warship and shot at shipwrecked sailors, does not live up to what really happened.

"the Atlantic is an English speaking lake!"

Well i guess the non-english speaking world would disagree, but it certainly helped to send US-"neutral" position reports uncoded in plain english, so England did not have the unnecessary trouble of translating

[Jimbuna]

1939 Franz Halder sent a message to Ludwig Beck telling him to be ready to move against Adolf Hitler on or shortly after 5 Nov 1939, which was the date the plans for the invasion of France, was supposed to be made known to top German military leaders.

1941 First submarine (HMS Proteus) attack by radar.

1941 Hirohiti's accord on Yamamoto's attack plan on Pearl Harbor fails.

1946 Emperor Hirohito proclaims new Japanese constitution.

1991 Ayrton Senna wins shortest Formula One race ever run (17 laps).

1992 Bill Clinton (D) wins US presidential election over President George H. W. Bush (R).

[Jimbuna]

1922 Howard Carter discovers tomb of Tutankhamen in Egypt.

2008 Barack Obama becomes the first African-American to be elected President of the United States.

[Jimbuna]

1605 Gunpowder Plot; attempt to blow up King James I as he opened British Parliament. Plot discovered, Guy Fawkes caught and tortured. He and seven others later executed.

1917 Gen Pershing & US troops see action on Western Front for 1st time.

1937 Adolf Hitler informs his military leaders in a secret meeting of his intentions of going to war.

1941 Japanese naval staff officiers Suzuki and Maejima leave Pearl Harbor.

1979 Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini declares US "The Great Satan"

[Jimbuna]

1865 American Civil War: CSS Shenandoah is the last Confederate combat unit to surrender after circumnavigating the globe on its cruise that sank or captured 37 vessels.

1935 1st test flight of Hawker Hurricane fighter aircraft.

1941 Einsatz Gruppe kills 15,000 Jews of Rovno Ukraine.

1941 Japanese fleet readies assault on Pearl Harbor.

1942 Nazis kill 12,000 Jews in the Minsk ghetto.

1945 The first landing of a jet on a carrier takes place on USS Wake Island when an FR-1 Fireball touches down.

1999 Australians vote to keep the British monarch as their head of state in the Australian republic referendum.

2012 Barack Obama re-elected as US President.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

1945 The first landing of a jet on a carrier takes place on USS Wake Island when an FR-1 Fireball touches down.

On 6 November 1945, a Fireball of VF-41 became the first aircraft to land under jet power on an aircraft carrier, albeit unintentionally. After the radial engine of an FR-1 failed on final approach to the escort carrier Wake Island, the pilot, Ensign J. C. West, managed to start the jet engine and land, barely catching the last arrestor wire before hitting the ship's crash barrier. The squadron was attempting to qualify its pilots for carrier operations during this time, but only 14 of its 22 pilots made the six required takeoffs and landings. (a 33% failure rate!) A number of accidents occurred when the nose gear failed on landing, but the pilots were at least partly responsible as they were slamming the nose gear onto the deck after landing on the main gear.

Quite the fortuitous misfortune. this was a very baaaad airplane; structurally weak, mis-designed (center of gravity issues with the wing-ducted internal jet engine) and it killed a lot of pilots! <FR-1 Fireball...Too much stuff in too little out-of-date concepts

...gear problems persisted and cut the cruise short. Ryan installed a steel fork for the nosewheel, but inspections also revealed evidence of partial wing failures so the aircraft was limited to maneuvers not to exceed 5 Gs. VF-41 suffered three fatal accidents in 1946 before being redesignated as VF-1E on 15 November 1946. One Ensign collided with the target banner during gunnery practice and spun into the water. A few months later, the squadron commander was performing a barrel roll when his wing broke off (the plane in the photo) and he struck another Fireball, killing both pilots. VF-1E conducted carrier qualification in March 1947 aboard the escort carrier Badoeng Strait and only eight pilots successfully qualified, not least because the FR-1s were proving to be too fragile to endure repeated carrier landings. During one brief deployment in June aboard Rendova, one aircraft broke in two during a hard landing. Subsequent inspections of the squadron's aircraft showed signs of structural failure and all the Fireballs were withdrawn by 1 August 1947.

Good decision; making test pilots out of expensively trained carrier fighter pilots is unwi$e ..and bad for morale.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_FR_Fireball

[Jimbuna]

1872 Cargo ship Mary Celeste sails from Staten Island for Genoa; mysteriously found abandoned 4 weeks later.