LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod

[LuftWolf]

Amizaur, that's why I had the idea, as a "quick fix" of giving making the LF passive sonar an "uber sensor" similiar to a more deaf FFG TA (borrowing the geometry most importantly).

The the range of the HF passive sonar could be increased and that would be good enough, as many of those subs would have a baffle.

[LuftWolf]

I just gave my 688i sphere the FG TA array geometry and it works beautifully!

It's up to you guys, we could have this very soon.

Keep in mind, it might make the AI a bear to fight.

Edit: Given that surface platform currently share the LF passive sonar with submarines, that solution has lost a little bit of taste for me, as it would either result in very sensitive submarines or very deaf surface ships at speed (currently they are more or less anyway). I think I will try something...

[PeriscopeDepth]

I believe I gave the AI ears in the DB I sent LuftWolf a few weeks ago and broke the generic LF Passive sensor into four sensors (only three of which are used) and gave the more capable ones to the more capable submarines and the less capable ones to the less capable submarine. The Han shouldn't have an LF Passive sensor as it doesn't have a towed array. The more capable generic LF Passive sensor (which most western and European and Russian AI subs are given) is equal to the TB-16 (which happens to be the same as the SQR-19, apart from beam widths and whatnot). I also set the AI sensor cones to the same as the playable TAs.

Did you actually look at what I sent you LuftWolf? Not trying to be mean, just curious.

[LuftWolf]

Yes, I looked at the submarine sound level fixes.

I either forgot or didn't read that you had done the sonars as well.

I'm really sorry about that. In case you were wondering, I was planning on including what you had done in consultation with you for v1.04, including it under the "more difficult" moddling heading, as I wanted the sound levels to be agreeable for everyone.

My bad.

Edit: Please see my email.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Take a look at what I did with the sensors and see if you and Amizaur think it makes sense. I put what I changed in the DB in the textfile that was also in the zip.

I'm not trying to nag you about crediting me in the readme or whatever, just think it's kinda silly that you didn't notice the sensor issue before especially when I sent you a DB that addressed the issue weeks ago. The AI being deaf is one of the top three things wrong with the DB IMO.



And BTW, I'm thinking about adding additional AI platforms into the DB and just using generic models that come with the game to portray them.

[LuftWolf]

I'm sometimes a very silly person and operate under a stress level that makes me miss somethings, of course, for no good reason at all, given what my responsiblities are.

In my mind, I had your mod as, "the mod with the sound level changes" and that's my only excuse. Other than that, I hope you can accept my apologizies and explanation that we made a decision not to include any sound level changes, which was probably a mistake on my part in suggesting that.

I have looked at your changes, and to be honest, I don't know the various platforms well enough to have made those changes. There are a couple of things that I would change, and I'll consult with you and Amizaur about that, but largely, I believe you will get credit for that part of the mod, because I would have definately sought your help if you knew enough to make those changes.

In terms of the AI sensor fixes, I will email you with a couple of questions right now.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Fuhgettabout it.

[LuftWolf]

For those of you that want to know NOW:

Amizaur did a thorough test of the torpedo speeds. All torpedos from 58kts max speed to 159kts max speed exhibit all kinds of funny oscillations in speed and sometimes course and depth. This behavior demonstrates a problem in the physics engine, most likely. Note: 200kts shikvals and any torpedo with speed under 58kts work fine.

I think there will be more on this to come. :hmm:

[Bellman]

LW I thought it might keep this fraternity up to speed if I posted an extract from yours on BFC 4/9/05 :-

We are currently looking at a new version (sooner that expected) that adds realisticly varying sensor cones for torpedos (by type, from ADCAP with several catagories down to Subrocs and older torpedos) and adds varying passive sonar sensors to AI subs and ships, to correct a 60 degree *total* blindness that many AI units have (the reason you can run over a Han at 30kts from the front) and give AI units MUCH more sensitive sonars, similar to human platforms, so they have a fighting chance at out-detecting a human platform, as currently all AI only vessels have extremely weak sonars, which, I believe, is 85% of the explanation as to why AI platforms, especially subs, appear to act "dumb" in many tactical situations.

Also on tap for this next version is a rescaling of all platforms passive sound levels, to make passive detections more difficult in general, and also relative changes to better reflect real-world sound levels between submarines.

I believe the combined effect of these three changes will make DW light years better, especially in missions that require many AI platforms to behave realisticly. I will keep you guys posted. I hope to have a version done in the next few days.

Cheers,
David
LW

Can't wait - heck you guys are busy. :|\

[LuftWolf]

Thanks Bellman, I was just going to post an update!

We've got a couple of other things in this next version, too.

Expect a full list of changes tonight, and perhaps the mod itself.

Cheers,
David

[SquidB]

Expect a full list of changes tonight, and perhaps the mod itself.

Wow you guys are prevelant, excellent news. You guys are making up for SCS's tardyness in patching this software and making SP a viable challenge.

Fantastic

[jlab]

yes, big ups luftwolf and amizaur. it's nothing against the DWX crew at all, but thanks for stepping into the void...

i confess to playing more sub command/scx than anything lately...

[LuftWolf]

Ok, here is a working list of changes for the next version of the mod.

Keep in mind, a number of these changes constitute major readjustments, and as such, may need to be refined an integer this way or that in future versions.

Submarine and Ship Sound Level Fix-- (In colloboration with Periscope Depth, credit also to Finiteless and jsteed)

I have lowered the Passive Sound Levels of the submarines generally to decrease detection ranges in ASW and adjusted them to reflect real world values. Also, American warships have been made quieter. Here is a sample of values.

Han-74, OHP/Spruance-68, Akula I-62, Oscar/688-60, Trafalgar/AkulaIimp-59, 688i/Vepr'-58, Gepard/Kilo-57, Ohio/SW-55, KiloImp-53, Collins-50.

Sensor Changes (In colloboration with Periscope Depth):

I have added sensors to all sonar-bearing platforms that reflect realistic sonars. I have done this in the following method. Divided the sonars into three catagories: Western, Modern Russian/Soviet-Nuclear, Eastern Diesel/Old Eastern Block. From the Western, I made three scaled versions each of the Sphere, Hull, and TA sonars from the 688i sensors, and assigned them to each platform in the game with Western sonars, according to level and whether they had a TA. I then did the same for the Modern Russian, borrowing from the Akula Sensors, assigning them to nuclear submarines with modern Eastern Sonar. The Kilo array model I used for diesels with eastern sonars and old submarines, which are mostly eastern.

The primary difference between the Western and Eastern sonars are the washout speed. The best Russian arrays are more sensitive than the worst Western arrays (still good), but the Western arrays maintain a signal at a higher speed. The new Eastern sonars and the old Eastern sonars differ in terms of their maximum range, the Kilo sensors I used for the model are much shorter range than the Akula sensors.

Akula II Gepard/Oscar-- I have added the Pelamida II, which has a max operational speed 4 kts faster than the Pelamida. This is a hypothetical change.

Torpedo Changes:

Amizaur is currently modeling varying-quality seeker cones for torpedos. He also has doctrines that prevent AI platforms from sinking ships with torpedos launched at submarines and, *perhaps*, a doctrine-level fix that prevents torpedos from exploding on CM's!!!

I have reduced the speeds of all torpedos over 55 kts with the following compensations: ADCAP-given PSL 15 points lower than other torpedos (from finiteless Realism Mod); type 89, Spearfish, APR-2E compensated with extra range; Type 40 no other changes, as it has been considered before on its own to reduce effectiveness of SS-N-27 ASW.

I have changed some Russian ASW warfare aircraft to drop the APR-2E, the same torp as the Helix, as previously it had been overlooked that they were dropping the modded 53cm/USGT.

Mk46--Given Mk54 hypothetical specs 17km@50kts with max depth 500m and a light weight, for airdrop use in littoral waters. I have given the Mk46 ASW torpedo Mk 46 specs, and swapped out the modded Mk 46 in all non-American platforms and the Mk46 ASROC. I thought it wasn't good to have a useless Mk46, so I did some research and came up with a torpedo that is marginally better than the Mk50 all round, but doesn't replace it. As the Navy's intention is to have a lower cost option to the Mk50, which is very expensive. For me personally, I will be taking more Mk 54's now, unless I need to kill something deep!

Ok, I think that is it.

I am waiting to hear back on a few things and then rewrite the readme and probably change a few values this way and that, and the mod should be out in version 2.0.

I hope you guys enjoy! :|\


EDIT:

To Be Added:

-Sonar sensor feedback enabled for ADCAP (from Amizaur)!

-Civilian Ship Damage remodelling, to make civilian ships like Super Tanker realistically hard to sink.

-Passive Sonars added for AI surface platforms.

[TLAM Strike]

Ok that’s a lot to take in. Let me know if I got this right.

No changes to the Type 40.

Mk46 changed to Mk54 for US Platforms. Foreign and ASROC's still have true Mk46s

^Personly thats how I would like to see it.

[LuftWolf]

Yes on both points.

The only change to the Type 40 is a reduction in speed to 55 kts, in order to: prevent oscillation bug, reduce effectiveness of SS-N-27 ASW.