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Old 06-26-2022, 01:57 PM   #3556
Dowly
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Yes and provided they have a doctors working at a state run hospital signature approving it and in some instance permission from the State. Woman are not allowed to go to a private clinic to obtain an abortion.
Both the signature and the procedure can be obtained at a private clinic.


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What works in California or Virginia and many other States here would be impossible to do in Finland. Yet here you are preaching to us
YOU are the one who brought Finland in to this, not me. I haven't made any comparisons to Finland or any other country.


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I don't know if the people who wrote those articles have an agenda, didn't take the time to read, don't know how to read or are just plain stupid. But I think you're embarrassing yourself when you post some links like. Makes me wonder if you're some kind of card carrying member of Qanon or Blue Annon?

I suggest you check the Louisiana State Legislation Website.
How embarrassing... I suggest you check the trigger law that was signed by the governor, RS 40:1061.18 is removed.


I don't know if you have an agenda, didn't take the time to read, don't know how to read or are just plain stupid. But I think you're embarrassing yourself when you post some links like. Makes me wonder if you're some kind of card carrying member of Qanon or Blue Annon?
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Old 06-26-2022, 02:20 PM   #3557
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Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
Both the signature and the procedure can be obtained at a private clinic.


YOU are the one who brought Finland in to this, not me. I haven't made any comparisons to Finland or any other country.
I say what I say just as nobody asked you to say anything U.S. law. Deal with it.


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How embarrassing... I suggest you check the trigger law that was signed by the governor, RS 40:1061.18 is removed.


I don't know if you have an agenda, didn't take the time to read, don't know how to read or are just plain stupid. But I think you're embarrassing yourself when you post some links like. Makes me wonder if you're some kind of card carrying member of Qanon or Blue Annon?
Here ya go buddy

https://gov.louisiana.gov/assets/doc...ementSB342.pdf
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Old 06-26-2022, 02:48 PM   #3558
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I also wanted to ask this, if Roe V. Wade was a ruling made by the SCOTUS does that actually make the ability for women to get an abortion a "constitutional right"? Was that right ever codified into law in either the Constitution or the Bill of Rights? Because if it wasn't then it's not a constitutional right at all.
Did you not read my post? Even the Supreme Court that initially ruled on Roe v Wade stated that abortion was not an absolute right. And no, it was never codified, which triggers the 10th Amendment:
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The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Old 06-26-2022, 03:02 PM   #3559
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So what changed?


Just curious.
Ha, no problem. I get that a lot, especially last few days regarding the Dobbs decision.

Well, it has been a process, for sure. I'll start by saying I did not convert into another political extreme or to another "side", I dislike both major US political parties equally, wings of the same bird. I just reformed my far right views to the reasonable center, some say left or center, some say right of center. I really hate the labels and "team" mentality in politics, its not a football game. Speaking of which...never mind, I won't get started on bread and circuses. Basically, I clash with liberals on "woke" nonsense, my crazy ideas like there are only two genders lol or 2nd Amendment rights. I clash with right wingers on things like a living wage, public benefits our society lacks but other comparable nations have, etc.

In hindsight, I can say my switch started in law school as being in a environment where intelligent people who could challenge my beliefs and philosophy, along with opportunity to truly study law and gaining a new view on politics through this, as law and politics are heavily intertwined. The opportunity for instruction from and to interact with intelligent, talented, and well regarded professors who offered a real intellectual challenge influenced me as well, forced some introspection. One of my constitutional law professors and mentors clerked for Justice Potter Stewart when he was fresh out of law school and had a amazing career since. Clinic at the Innocence Project, Legal Aid, and working at the Public Defenders office, further opened my eyes to a lot of things I had been blind to or even obtuse about. Also allowed me to reexamine some of my own experiences up to that point.


Another contributor to my "reform" would be that I had a house mate who was from Spain and through him, met a girl from Netherlands, we ended up dating a while. This provided a opportunity to spend some time in Europe as a adult vs a vacation as a child/teen, opened my eyes a lot. Basically, it became apparent over time that the average American does not have the same quality of life as the average citizen in many Western European countries. We're just so far behind on many key indicators. One of the most common ones I hear be it from Europe or even Asia (my neighbor from Vietnam for example). Why do Americans not have universal healthcare?

More I considered things, I saw that my beliefs were inconsistent with progress for the people of my country and a huge part of why we are so far behind. My right wing beliefs were just empowering what is essentially a nation of corporate feudalism.

All of this cause further introspection about myself, my beliefs, friends, family, the US in general. This was going on around time Trump ran for President. I had my reservations, strong ones, but I have a strong dislike for
"established" candidates of either "major" party. Neo-cons and Neo-liberals are a massive part of the problem. I was most open to Bernie Sanders (he would have won in 2016, prob 2020 as well) because we needed a new way. The status quo in this country is not and has not been working for a long time. With Bernie gone, I opened up to Trump, felt he would shake things up and he did, in some ways it was a good thing, a great thing. However, he proved to be rather incompetent and showed his fascist tendencies as time went on, especially at the end. There was really talk about seizing voting machines and martial law.

Then I noticed something disturbing in the Trump years...people I respected, cared for, who I had been politically aligned for most part...turned out to be quite racist, bigoted, sexist, and misogynistic. I was shocked at some things
I was hearing and seeing. These are educated, intelligent, successful people, but they held these beliefs. I was shocked. This happened across the country, we saw the real underbelly of the right wing, the veil was lifted.

Believe this or not, but I will share. I won't mention names, but through a friend of mine (very successful dentist) , I met a rather influential Republican politician, they are neighbors. One Saturday evening while I was visiting (staying there for a weekend), he walked over to my friends with a nice bottle of bourbon. Lets just say from talking to him, with his guard down, he's a racist, classist, and sexist piece of crap. I could not believe what I was hearing, well I could, but still shocking. Yet, in public he uses the coded language of the right wing, that they all use and push policies that do not help people.



Close to home, came along the most dangerous person in politics right now, Ron DeSantis, the governor of my home state. There is a solid chance he will be President one day and it is terrifying to be honest. That man is a right wing authoritarian, semi fascist, possibly full blown modern fascist, just has not shown all of his cards yet. DeSantis is Trump, but actually highly intelligent and competent, makes him dangerous. My home state was already a corrupt authoritarian leaning hellhole, he has just made it worse.

DeSantis started with the "Anti-Riot" law which is nothing but a cop serving(he is a huge bootlicker, a sign of a authoritarian/fascist) , authoritarian attack on free speech, especially against minorities. That law was passed using racial animus over violent protests across the nation. The law was not needed, already had laws on books. This was done so the tools were present to intimidate people from protesting, because basically if you are there on the scene and the cops called it a riot (which they always do) , and you get arrested (of course a high chance of conviction) and then convicted, there are pretty draconian consequences. Thankfully, the law
was ruled unconstitutional, but the fact he championed this and signed it into law, is not forgivable. To be fair, he stood up to the hysteria and nonsense about COVID, especially the injection mandate. Not even sure it was genuine though, believe it was just politics for him.



My final push to the center of the spectrum was the COVID pandemic, the recession that has followed, which has showed just how weak and vulnerable our nation actually is, how vulnerable our population is. I was fortunate, all it did was give me chance to work from home most of the time and then a lot of free time when I decided to take some time off. However, it really harmed a lot of people beyond being ill, just put people further behind in life. What was our governments response? A $300 tax credit, some extra SNAP money, and two checks for $1200 and one for $600? LOL just disgusting and pitiful. We do not have a strong safety net that a modern country should have. We pay a lot in taxes but essentially nothing in return. Just a massively inflated "defense" budget. Right Wing/Republicans always oppose measures to help the people, to have a real safety net, and reform. They use the buzzword "socialism", which scares a lot of the ignorant masses who do not have the knowledge and/or intelligence to distinguish.

Now, we have supreme court loaded with religious zealots with no reservation about implementing their religious views on the population. They have said that women are unequal and states can violate their body autonomy at their discretion. One of them (Thomas) even said they should reconsider other rights gained by substantive due process. A black man who is on that court thanks to substantive due process and allowed to marry a white woman, because of substantive due process. Cognitive dissonance much?

In summation, I had some experiences that opened my mind/eyes, caused me to reexamine some beliefs and principles. Sadly, America is a sinking ship and there is no saving her. I have friends who have left the country and are quite happy. I am in the process of deciding where I will go, hope to be out before next election. Tough one, as will miss family and friends. I am trying to convince my mother to leave as well, but 62 years old, grandchildren are here, doubt she will. Father, I would not even attempt lol. Thus, next chapter of my life will be lived as a expatriate.
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Old 06-26-2022, 03:10 PM   #3560
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Btw , SB 342 does not go into effect until August 1st
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Old 06-26-2022, 03:46 PM   #3561
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The original court back in 73 even stated in their ruling that the right to abortion is not absolute and must be balanced against the government's interests in protecting women's health and prenatal life.

You said it yourself, you refused the shot mandate due to Federal government overreach, this decision at it's core is just the flip side of those mandates.

I'll be the first to say the 73 decision had its flaws. The terms compelling government interest is BS, always a excuse used to justify violating rights of the people. That was a flaw in the decision, body autonomy is absolute.
In the end, court held the right to abortion is protected under 14th amendment. Body autonomy is a privacy issue and privacy is a constitutional right. True, not enumerated but heavily implied and not far fetched. Really 3rd and 4th amendments are all about privacy, to prevent government intrusion. Not overreach to prevent states, which had shown and continue to show, they are willing to do so.


I fought for my own body autonomy and that of others, from the government and private entities trying to use that mandate as a shield and we won. Women deserve the same autonomy over their bodies, period.
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Old 06-26-2022, 04:58 PM   #3562
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Also, while we were distracted by abortion, the same authoritarian minded, intellectually dishonest justices undermined constitutional rights against self incrimination. They ruled you can not sue law enforcement for violating miranda rights. Alito authored the opinion and was so bold to state :

“a violation of Miranda does not necessarily constitute a violation of the Constitution.” What is wrong with this man? These people?

Just never ever talk to law enforcement, many innocent people have inadvertently talked themselves into prison.
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Old 06-26-2022, 05:26 PM   #3563
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Also, while we were distracted by abortion, the same authoritarian minded, intellectually dishonest justices undermined constitutional rights against self incrimination. They ruled you can not sue law enforcement for violating miranda rights. Alito authored the opinion and was so bold to state :

“a violation of Miranda does not necessarily constitute a violation of the Constitution.” What is wrong with this man? These people?

Just never ever talk to law enforcement, many innocent people have inadvertently talked themselves into prison.
Yep, just one more pile of dung added to the heap building a police state. The reading of your Miranda rights will become just another thing that gets "forgotten" all too frequently to trap people into self incrimination. You still have those rights so never talk to the police except to say you want a lawyer.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:26 PM   #3564
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Thanks! Are we done with this side quest now?
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Old 06-26-2022, 09:14 PM   #3565
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Its a dumb argument.

Suppose SCOTUS decides to ban appendendectomies or cancer treatments?
We're mortal, eventually something is going to kill us. Why should we try to prevent that? Besides, it was probably our fault.

Just as another reminder, we're not perfect.
Suppose a woman who is pro-life has a miscarriage. How much time does she get in jail? It was probably her fault, so take that into account.
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:16 PM   #3566
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Its a dumb argument.

Suppose SCOTUS decides to ban appendendectomies or cancer treatments?

I don't get the connection. SCOTUS has not banned anything leastwise abortions.
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:59 PM   #3567
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@ Bubblehead, thanks for the explanation.
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Old 06-27-2022, 08:15 AM   #3568
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@Bubblehead, thanks that was some worthwhile reading!
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Old 06-27-2022, 08:20 AM   #3569
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I'll be the first to say the 73 decision had its flaws. The terms compelling government interest is BS, always a excuse used to justify violating rights of the people. That was a flaw in the decision, body autonomy is absolute.
In the end, court held the right to abortion is protected under 14th amendment. Body autonomy is a privacy issue and privacy is a constitutional right. True, not enumerated but heavily implied and not far fetched. Really 3rd and 4th amendments are all about privacy, to prevent government intrusion. Not overreach to prevent states, which had shown and continue to show, they are willing to do so.


I fought for my own body autonomy and that of others, from the government and private entities trying to use that mandate as a shield and we won. Women deserve the same autonomy over their bodies, period.
so when exactly does the baby's rights kick in?

This all or nothing attitude from the "pro-choice" crowd is becoming tiresome. Tell you what, how about a compromise, I'll agree to unfettered access to abortions provided you agree to unfettered access to keep and bear arms.
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Old 06-27-2022, 08:31 AM   #3570
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Also, while we were distracted by abortion, the same authoritarian minded, intellectually dishonest justices undermined constitutional rights against self incrimination. They ruled you can not sue law enforcement for violating miranda rights. Alito authored the opinion and was so bold to state :

“a violation of Miranda does not necessarily constitute a violation of the Constitution.” What is wrong with this man? These people?

Just never ever talk to law enforcement, many innocent people have inadvertently talked themselves into prison.
Does the phrase "ignorance of the law is no excuse" resonate? The same principle can be applied to your rights, do they even teach American civics in school anymore?
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