GER politics thread

[Skybird]

Understanding the Merkel. An American analysis.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/09/...erkel-germany/

As usual with such pieces, it most ikely gives too sober a descritpion of the truth - in this case Merkel'S poltical calculation -, but intentional or by random chance: her political acting indeed is reflected a bit by what the author describes here. Personally I think he underestmates the infuence of plitical messiah-syndrome which in case of Merkel and many other Germna polticians fundamentally bases on the socialization experiences in the DDR and the FdJ, and results in generla attitude of "us the knowing, planning party" and "them the led, obedient collective". In other words: feudalist elitism.

What’s strange about Merkel’s record of electoral success is how consistently she has confirmed the adage that policy failures are an unavoidable part of politics, while avoiding its corollary: that erosions of public support are inevitable, too. The mystery, however, lies less with Merkel than the German public — or, rather, with Merkel’s assessment of what the public wants and expects from politics. That assessment speaks well of Merkel’s intuition. It speaks less well of Germany’s political maturity.

I currently read Jason Brennan's "Against Democracy" (British link, German link). Its fair to say that he shredders the many illusions and deceptive hopes people have about it. Merkel'S success in staying in power (she is not really successful on matters) illustrates how misled our beloved illusions about democracy and elections indeed are. Which is true for any leading political caste in any Western country, it seems.

On a side note, compared to the almost hysteric enthusiasm the SPF displayed over the so-called Schultz-effect, surprisingly little of that effect is still alive. Schultz since weeks is in a nose dive - in the precise vertical.

[Skybird]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/05/o...ean-union.html

Good read in the New York Times. I would add more points that speak against her, but at least those he focusses on are correctly described. Merkel has ruined thigns so far that by now her net effect is destructive just because she is what and how she is.

Personally, I rate her as the biggest German and European disaster since 1933 and the terrible fallout coming from that year, and I do not say that lightly or in a rhetorical understanding only. I mean it literal.

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translat...317&edit-text=

I have a growing distribution dispute in mind. There will be programs for the further pooling of liability, joint deposit insurance, joint unemployment insurance, as demanded by the French, a common budget for the Eurozone - ultimately with transfers from Germany to other countries. Germany will - admittedly hesitant - give in to prevent the collapse of the system. We are no longer free in our decisions. The target balances make Germany unable to act because it no longer has the option to say 'no'.

It cannot escape to end ugly. And I am thnakful for that. Anything else would absolutely violate my sense of justice.


---


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/07/...al-perversion/

From its very beginnings, and despite all high-sounding political proclamations to the contrary, the EU was never about free trade and free competition. For that, you don’t need tens of thousands of pages of rules and regulations! Rather, the central purpose of the EU, supported all-along by the USA, was always the weakening in particular of Germany as Europe’s economic powerhouse. To facilitate this, Germany was sent on a seemingly never-ending ‘guilt trip’ and thus pressured to transfer increasingly larger parts of its already limited (vis-à-vis the USA) sovereignty to the EU in Brussels. Especially noteworthy in this regard: Germany’s giving up its monetary sovereignty and abandoning its traditionally ‘strong’ currency, the DM, in favor of a ‘weak’ Euro, issued by a European Central Bank (ECB) composed overwhelmingly of politically connected central bankers from traditionally ‘weak’ currency countries.


The EU, then, is characterized by three main features: First: The harmonization of the tax- and regulation structure across all member states, so as to reduce economic competition and especially tax-competition between different countries and make all countries equally uncompetitive.


Second: On top of the economic and moral perversity within each country of punishing the productive and subsidizing the unproductive, another layer of international income- and wealth-redistribution is added: of punishing economically better performing countries like Germany and the countries of northern Europe and rewarding economically worse performing countries (mostly of southern Europe) and thus successively rendering the economic performance of all countries equally worse.


And third, of increasing importance especially during the last decade: In order to overcome the rising resistance, in many countries, against the steadily increasing transfer of national sovereignty to Brussels, the EU is on a crusade to erode, and ultimately destroy, all national identities and all social and cultural cohesion. The idea of a nation and of different national and regional identities is ridiculed, and multi-culturalism is hailed instead as an unquestionable “good.” As well, in promoting the award of legal privileges and of “special protection” to everyone, except white, heterosexual men, and especially married family men (who are portrayed as historic ‘oppressors’ owing compensation to everyone else as their historic ‘victims’) – euphemistically called “anti-discrimination” or “affirmative action” policy – the natural social order is systematically undermined. Normality is punished, and abnormity and deviance is rewarded.

A coup against freedom. A conspiracy against self-responsible, sovereign people. A plot to assassinate all historically grown sense of own identity and culture.

Does it take any more arguments to defend wanting to destroy the EU at all costs? Not for me. I now tolerate every price and every cost to bring it down, no matter what. The EU must be destroyed - or Europe gets destroyed: and with it, Europeans, and 2500 years of precious European culture.

[Catfish]

Motive Attribution Asymmetry.

[Jimbuna]

That article has a lot in common with my oersonal beliefs Sky

[iambecomelife]

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...vivors/586357/

“Our culture of remembrance is crumbling,” Foreign Minister Heiko Maas wrote in January in the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag. “Right-wing populist provocateurs diminish the Holocaust, knowing that such a breach of taboo will garner maximum attention.”

They also point out that many camp survivors have died or become too infirm to continue speaking tours. Tragically, this comes just as German nationalists are trying to minimize historical events ... either through "scholarship" or inflamatory rhetoric.

[Catfish]

^ yes, and it all has been fuelled by alleged perpetrations from outside, immigrants, Corona virus, all things bad must of course come from the bloody foreigners.. perfect time to claim that the past has to be forgotten, or to try to build up a concocted history like "it was not all that bad". Foreigners, you know.. it is all perpetrated to us by others, by the EU, we lost our sovereignty to the US, to the EU, to whatever.. but never is it our own guilt. Let's blame others.
Sounds familiar to anyone?
At least the jewish world conspiracy is not on the table right now, but just wait a bit.

I take it that the german antifa movement (founded here) is a reaction to not forget those things, since the right wing is getting stronger in Germany since a decade. The german "antifa" demonstrates a lot, but no looting or criminal action. They are often confused with the "black block" often joining demonstrations and trying to escalate, being responsibe for criminal action.
Trump seems to prove the german AfD and right-wing organisations right, it is now possible to change to a governmental right wing course and US "conservative" (lmao) media support it, as do China and Russia with their "strong leaders." And the maybe overblown critics of the US here are just a helpless try to prevent happening the same - here.

I write "maybe overblown" because even if things seem dark in the US the whole past and basic foundation of, and in, the US will most probably not lead to a situation like here back then in the 1930ies. The tradition, basic understanding and ideas are basically some of freedom and civil rights that are self-evident to every US citizen.
This is still different here, and all that are not right-wing of course fear the situation to escalate.

Or i could just say the article posted above is just the work of the loony left, to discredit the right wing. Some would.

edit: oops sorry, i thought this was a serious post, but it just seems an extension oft the closed thread and blame Germany because it DARES to criticize TRUMP, or the US, or the RIGHT WING. Welcome to my ignore list.
I will still let it stand.

[iambecomelife]

"i thought this was a serious post"

I certainly think it's serious. Lack of self-critique, hate for "the other", distorting history, and demonizing of political opponents is exactly what led to extremism in the 20th Century.

[Jimbuna]

I must say I'm rather disappointed in the creation of this thread if my initial suspicion that this is a retaliatory response to what has recently been hotly debated in the US Politics thread turns out to be correct.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I must say I'm rather disappointed in the creation of this thread if my initial suspicion that this is a retaliatory response to what has recently been hotly debated in the US Politics thread turns out to be correct.

Um, racially I belong to two of the groups that the Germans wanted to exterminate, so this is kind of important to me (granted, much less Jewish ancestry than African, but it is there). And I've been researching this topic for some years, having read both "Ordinary Men" and "Hitler's Willing Executioners". So my interest predates the dust-up on the forums. By more than a decade. I have made several internet posts on this issue outside of Subsim….I usually do an annual tribute to Anne Frank because she and I share the same birthday (Sailor Steve, who knows me outside the forums, can vouch for me).

And before anyone talks about me badmouthing Germans, I am an opponent of Goldhagen's school of thought (Hitler's Willing Executioners) because I believe the book seems to malign Germans as uniquely evil, while not adequately explaining why so many European Christians in the occupied territories collaborated with the Nazis.

I'll thank you in advance for your understanding, Jimbuna.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Let's blame others.
Sounds familiar to anyone?

Definitely. You and your lefty friends play that game all the time.

[Catfish]

Good that you and your righty friends never play that game.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Good that you and your righty friends never play that game.

Not nearly as often as the left does and then usually only in response to something your side has done.

[mapuc]

Both side play that game.

See it almost daily where my friends claim they belong to the correct side, saying they are peaceful and an understanding group -while they point fingers at the other side, claiming they are violent and are detriment of the country.

And both side would - prevent people or politicians from the opposite side to speak

Markus