Comments or concerns regarding the Ukrainian flag SUBSIM logo

Onkel Neal · 04-17-22, 02:04 PM

I would normally put a PSA thread in Comments to SUBSIM but I suspect the discussion over this could veer political, so it's here. For now.

I have had a couple (actually several) members question me about adopting the blue/yellow Ukrainian SUBSIM banner. This is the answer I have given them:

Quote:

I just want you to know that I am not against Russian Subsim members, not at all. I love Russian people, they are very clever.
The Subsim banner has the Ukrainian flag because I support stopping the war and killing in Ukraine.
If someone was to invade Russia unprovoked, I would have the white, blue, and red Russian flag there.

This war needs to end, Russia has no business in Ukraine.

Jeff-Groves · 04-17-22, 02:11 PM

Good on you Neal.
I have friends made here at SubSim that are Russian. I have NOTHING AGAINST the Russain People.
But the War needs to stop!

mapuc · 04-17-22, 02:15 PM

It's not the ordinary Russian I dislike it is their leader who have put them in this mess.

Markus

Dargo · 04-17-22, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I would normally put a PSA thread in Comments to SUBSIM but I suspect the discussion over this could veer political, so it's here. For now.

I have had a couple (actually several) members question me about adopting the blue/yellow Ukrainian SUBSIM banner. This is the answer I have given them:

This war needs to end, Russia has no business in Ukraine.

Could not agree more

Von Due · 04-17-22, 02:26 PM

Just echoing what's been said already. Flying the Ukrainian flag is to take a stand in regards to the war, not the Russian people. Their leaders are a bunch of [CENSORED] but the same can be said about prettymuch any leader anywhere. The war has to stop and both Russia and Ukraine has to come out of it standing, preferably together and not alone.

Skybird · 04-17-22, 02:33 PM

Russians who are disgusted by this war, who do not defend Putin's fascism, and who are opposed to the Russian state dictatorship and the nationalist megalomania, I have no problems with them and I would continue to deal with them as before, if I knew Russians at the moment. I had Russian acquaintances a long time ago, but currently no longer.

But with Russians, who defend Putin, find the war good and follow the nationalistic propaganda noise, with such I want to have as much to do as with German Nazis or Mohammeddan purists or martial racist nationalists of any colour or any other inhuman fanatics: namely nothing, absolutely nothing.

In other words, the question for me is not whether some Russian is russian or not, obviously as a Russian he/she is Russian then. The question that decides my attitude towards this person is how this Russian thinks about Putin and his nationalistic fascism.

I think that is consistent. That is transparent. That's fair. That is reasonable.

P.S. Russia currently sees a massive brain drain, especially from the IT sector. Many young Russians and families try to flee from Putin's Russia as long as they still can, they fear what is coming after this war - in Russia. Severla hundred thosuand Russians have already fled form Russia. And they flee from Putin and the restoration of the Stalinist-Sovjet tyranny he brings back. Why would we want to see them as enemies? They are victims, too.

Buddahaid · 04-17-22, 06:41 PM

Showing up in lots of places.

Reece · 04-17-22, 07:19 PM

Agree with your thoughts Neal, the banner is in good taste.

Armistead · 04-17-22, 09:02 PM

Putin is a modern day Hitler! His leveling of cities with no concern of the many innocent men, women and children he's killing is inexcusable, not to mention `1000's of Russian soldiers. In the end there's nothing to win, a lil bit of land in the east.

tmccarthy · 04-18-22, 01:17 AM

Copy, sir.

-Tim

astvitaliy1982 · 04-18-22, 03:00 AM

Let me comment on the Ukrainian flag on the Subsim logo.

I, as a forum participant not from America or Europe, see a certain amount of cunning and populism in this.
This act is not fair to the citizens of Ukraine. If Subsim supported ending the war in Ukraine,
then the flag of this country on the logo would have been on the site for about 8 years.

Quote from Onkel Neal - "... because I support stopping the war and killing in Ukraine"

Because that's how much the war is going on in this country.
And hanging the flag on the logo right now, when Russia has entered this conflict, is rather illogical and incomprehensible ...
Based on the wishes of Onkel Neal.

No sane and normal person supports war in ANY COUNTRY OF THE WORLD.
But I don't remember that there were other flags on Subsim's website...

Based on this logic, it would be possible to hang the flags of the DNR / LNR and Ukraine on the logo, it would even
more correctly. Then it would be really clear that the Subsim website is against the war in Ukraine. because
CITIZENS of Ukraine are dying in this conflict, albeit under different flags. I am silent already about peaceful people.

But attaching the yellow-blue flag, this site, right now, (after Russia entered this conflict)
supports a certain side, in this case Ukraine. This is what it looks like for everyone.

The Subsim site was not political... we are all united by the love of the game and the story. But not for politics at the moment
moment of time. Today the agenda is one, tomorrow another, after tomorrow the third, so I think that -

"Don't bend under the changing world, let it bend under us"

A. Makarevich

As for forum members like Skybird, Armistead and the like....

We have one saying - "The farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans", I don't want to offend anyone,
so those who know will understand.

Thank you)

Skybird · 04-18-22, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astvitaliy1982

But I don't remember that there were other flags on Subsim's website...

Then you remember either wrong or not long enough, because there were. Quite some. On many opportunities. Over the past 20+ years.

Quote:

The Subsim site was not political.

But this section- general topics - always was, as it was religious and elsewise as well. Since 20+ years. Its called "general topics" not for no reason.

What Neal expresses with that Ukrainian logo, btw, is not so much politically motivated, but motivated by sympathy and human compassion, inter-human solidarity. Note that he abstains from further political comments.

If you want to complain about hostile political opinions opposing maybe your views, complain about me and some others then.

Catfish · 04-18-22, 04:31 AM

re Neal's 1st post i completely agree.

I also have to say, that after we made some "excursions" recently, that in the countries we visited the blue-yellow flag was hanging everywhere from buildings, out of windows, from flagposts and churches, it really was a sight to see. And it clearly shows that people care about what happens in Ukraine now, a lot.
People mostly say that Putin is destroying Russia'a own culture, and that they are not sure whether Russia could be ever forgiven after this. There is not even a pretext, it is all about direct imperialism of a dictatorship that looks like being stuck in the early 20ieth century.

Skybird · 04-18-22, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

People mostly say that Putin is destroying Russia'a own culture, and that they are not sure whether Russia could be ever forgiven after this. There is not even a pretext, it is all about direct imperialism of a dictatorship that looks like being stuck in the early 20ieth century.

Think you like this:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...postcount=3245

astvitaliy1982 · 04-18-22, 04:53 AM

Guys, let's define the difference... It's one thing to express personal sympathy (usually done in the comments), it's another thing to hang the flag of the country on the logo of the site that thousands of people use. (Realizing that this will cause a conflicting interpretation among the forum participants) This is not the same thing. I think so.
The red flag, at one time, also hung everywhere ... The American flag also hung everywhere ... Not only in America ... And what ...? Where do these flags come from? They are embroidered by housewives..? or are they bought for the last money by the inhabitants of the warring regions ...? Or are they hung up by the state authorities to show them to "tourists" ...?

04-17-22, 02:11 PM	#2
Jeff-Groves Village Idiot Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,319 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	Good on you Neal. I have friends made here at SubSim that are Russian. I have NOTHING AGAINST the Russain People. But the War needs to stop! __________________ I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.

04-17-22, 02:15 PM	#3
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,837 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	It's not the ordinary Russian I dislike it is their leader who have put them in this mess. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

04-17-22, 02:33 PM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,461 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Russians who are disgusted by this war, who do not defend Putin's fascism, and who are opposed to the Russian state dictatorship and the nationalist megalomania, I have no problems with them and I would continue to deal with them as before, if I knew Russians at the moment. I had Russian acquaintances a long time ago, but currently no longer. But with Russians, who defend Putin, find the war good and follow the nationalistic propaganda noise, with such I want to have as much to do as with German Nazis or Mohammeddan purists or martial racist nationalists of any colour or any other inhuman fanatics: namely nothing, absolutely nothing. In other words, the question for me is not whether some Russian is russian or not, obviously as a Russian he/she is Russian then. *The question that decides my attitude towards this person is how this Russian thinks about Putin and his nationalistic fascism.* I think that is consistent. That is transparent. That's fair. That is reasonable. P.S. Russia currently sees a massive brain drain, especially from the IT sector. Many young Russians and families try to flee from Putin's Russia as long as they still can, they fear what is coming after this war - in Russia. Severla hundred thosuand Russians have already fled form Russia. And they flee from Putin and the restoration of the Stalinist-Sovjet tyranny he brings back. Why would we want to see them as enemies? They are victims, too. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-17-22, 06:41 PM	#7
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,552 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Showing up in lots of places. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

04-17-22, 07:19 PM	#8
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 32,703 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Agree with your thoughts Neal, the banner is in good taste. __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

04-17-22, 02:26 PM	#5
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,660 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Just echoing what's been said already. Flying the Ukrainian flag is to take a stand in regards to the war, not the Russian people. Their leaders are a bunch of [CENSORED] but the same can be said about prettymuch any leader anywhere. The war has to stop and both Russia and Ukraine has to come out of it standing, preferably together and not alone.

04-17-22, 09:02 PM	#9
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Putin is a modern day Hitler! His leveling of cities with no concern of the many innocent men, women and children he's killing is inexcusable, not to mention `1000's of Russian soldiers. In the end there's nothing to win, a lil bit of land in the east. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

04-18-22, 01:17 AM	#10
tmccarthy Admiral Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,302 Downloads: 270 Uploads: 16	Copy, sir. -Tim __________________

04-18-22, 03:00 AM	#11
astvitaliy1982 Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 254 Downloads: 532 Uploads: 0	Astvitaliy 1982 Let me comment on the Ukrainian flag on the Subsim logo. I, as a forum participant not from America or Europe, see a certain amount of cunning and populism in this. This act is not fair to the citizens of Ukraine. If Subsim supported ending the war in Ukraine, then the flag of this country on the logo would have been on the site for about 8 years. Quote from Onkel Neal - "... because I support stopping the war and killing in Ukraine" Because that's how much the war is going on in this country. And hanging the flag on the logo right now, when Russia has entered this conflict, is rather illogical and incomprehensible ... Based on the wishes of Onkel Neal. No sane and normal person supports war in ANY COUNTRY OF THE WORLD. But I don't remember that there were other flags on Subsim's website... Based on this logic, it would be possible to hang the flags of the DNR / LNR and Ukraine on the logo, it would even more correctly. Then it would be really clear that the Subsim website is against the war in Ukraine. because CITIZENS of Ukraine are dying in this conflict, albeit under different flags. I am silent already about peaceful people. But attaching the yellow-blue flag, this site, right now, (after Russia entered this conflict) supports a certain side, in this case Ukraine. This is what it looks like for everyone. The Subsim site was not political... we are all united by the love of the game and the story. But not for politics at the moment moment of time. Today the agenda is one, tomorrow another, after tomorrow the third, so I think that - "Don't bend under the changing world, let it bend under us" A. Makarevich As for forum members like Skybird, Armistead and the like.... We have one saying - "The farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans", I don't want to offend anyone, so those who know will understand. Thank you)

04-18-22, 04:31 AM	#13
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,892 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	re Neal's 1st post i completely agree. I also have to say, that after we made some "excursions" recently, that in the countries we visited the blue-yellow flag was hanging everywhere from buildings, out of windows, from flagposts and churches, it really was a sight to see. And it clearly shows that people care about what happens in Ukraine now, a lot. People mostly say that Putin is destroying Russia'a own culture, and that they are not sure whether Russia could be ever forgiven after this. There is not even a pretext, it is all about direct imperialism of a dictatorship that looks like being stuck in the early 20ieth century. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

04-18-22, 04:53 AM	#15
astvitaliy1982 Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 254 Downloads: 532 Uploads: 0	Astvitaliy 1982 Guys, let's define the difference... It's one thing to express personal sympathy (usually done in the comments), it's another thing to hang the flag of the country on the logo of the site that thousands of people use. (Realizing that this will cause a conflicting interpretation among the forum participants) This is not the same thing. I think so. The red flag, at one time, also hung everywhere ... The American flag also hung everywhere ... Not only in America ... And what ...? Where do these flags come from? They are embroidered by housewives..? or are they bought for the last money by the inhabitants of the warring regions ...? Or are they hung up by the state authorities to show them to "tourists" ...?