Las Vegas: 59 dead in Mandalay Bay shooting - Page 5

Onkel Neal · 10-03-17, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

Wow, we have had the wrong ideas about what happened in Vegas yesterday! This tragedy isn't about those who were gunned down, its not about those who are still in the hospital, facing multiple surgeries, fighting for their lives, this isn't about the fact that those who had been shot for no reason that their blood still lies on the pavement, this isn't about those families whose lives have been shattered by this senseless shooting,this isn't about showing sympathy or compassion for the victims, we've got it all wrong! We should turn our attention to the REAL victims of this tragedy, THE gun owners of America! What the hell were we thinking!?! If that's all these big bad arse gun owners can think about at a time like this, that's beyond pathetic! That's just self centered BS, that's all. If seeing those lifeless bodies of innocent people lying there doesn't move you to sympathy or compassion, if it just moves you to want to protect your guns, then I have a message

Keep a cool head, mate. We want to hear what you have to say, just avoid inflammatory and vulgar language

Catfish · 10-03-17, 02:28 PM

This link posted by Dowly already has it all.

http://www.theonion.com/article/amer...ocialMarketing

Why do something? The problem is the man, not the weapon.
So give everone on this planet the atomic bomb, then we will all be free and secure

August · 10-03-17, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

This link posted by Dowly already has it all.

http://www.theonion.com/article/amer...ocialMarketing

Why do something?
I am for giving everone on this planet the atomic bomb, then we will all be free and secure

What's this give stuff? My AR-15 cost me $400 hard earned bucks. Nobody gave me anything!

August · 10-03-17, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Keep a cool head, mate. We want to hear what you have to say, just avoid inflammatory and vulgar language

Well I for one don't want to hear what he has to say if he's going to lump every gun owner in the country together like that.

Méo · 10-03-17, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

The question has been raised about why the hotel didn't notice the shooter taking large amounts of luggage or other items into the hotel and/or his room.

It's not about what happened or how it could have been possible, that's the police job.

It's about what will be (or can be) the next strike by a nutjob/terrorist and what can be done to prevent it.

My minigun example was an extreme example I know, but I guess before 9/11 no one would believe someone (or some organization) could hijack and pilot a commercial airplane...

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

"Who is really, actually, benefiting from the lack of controls: public safety or the bank accounts of the manufacturers and sellers?"...

Right. I don't live in the U.S. but it seems like the public doesn't really see it (or don't want to).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Keep a cool head, mate. We want to hear what you have to say, just avoid inflammatory and vulgar language

I agree but,

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

We should turn our attention to the REAL victims of this tragedy, THE gun owners of America! What the hell were we thinking!?! If that's all these big bad arse gun owners can think about at a time like this, that's beyond pathetic!

I think he's got a really good point here, and I don't want to imagine what a dad, a mom, a husband/boyfriend or wife/girlfriend of the victims would feel after reading this.

Platapus · 10-03-17, 04:22 PM

Time for me to post, yet again, one of my favourite quotes

"These are dangerous times. When we are afraid, we want to
be protected, and since we cannot protect ourselves against such
horrors as mass murder by bombers, we are tempted to run to
the government, a government that is always willing to trade the
promise of protection for our freedom, which left, as always,
the question: How much freedom are we willing to relinquish for
such a bald promise?" Gerry Spence

Substitute bombers with snipers/shooters and it applies to this incident

vienna · 10-03-17, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDef

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You want to prevent me from buying a gun, change the Constitution.

No, it just that it would be nice to see the "well regulated" part of the 2nd enforced as much as the rest of the Amendment; it's obviously there for a reason; the Founders felt the importance and the the need to include the phrase; it's obviously there for a reason they foresaw...

<O>

Buddahaid · 10-03-17, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

....this isn't about those families whose lives have been shattered by this senseless shooting,this isn't about showing sympathy or compassion for the victims, we've got it all wrong! We should turn our attention to the REAL victims of this tragedy, THE gun owners of America!.....

I'd bet many of those very same families are gun owners themselves.

Skybird · 10-03-17, 06:39 PM

It was the use of wepaoins that enabled man to protect himself from the beasts of the wilderness that hunted him, later it were weapons that enbaled man to avoid starvation by hunting aniumals too dangeorus or too big to hunt them wiothout wepaons; and then again weapons were what allowed the weak to protect themselves agai8nstth e physically supeiror guy. Wepaons are the big equalizer, and thus have probably done more for justice and self-protection to man as any word, any code, and good intention alone. And if ever civilization may fall again - and that can happen easily, since in Freuds word civilised manners are only a very thin layer of paint that all to easily can be scratched off - then it will not educaiton or intention, not gold and not stockpiled food, not a reserve of medical drugs and not a begging smile on a face that can keep the looter and plunder, the murderer and rapist away. What then decides whetehr oyiu becomne prey and will need to suffer what you must - is a weapon and your skill to use it.

THIS guy in Las Vegas, was a nuthead, and obviously he was hot for illing scores of people. He wanted it, by all what he can say. And so he would have found a way to do so. We have saeen in past months how cars and trucks can be turned into wepsaons easily, killing scores. Think of truck bombs. If people would have no right to carry arms, it still would not have prevented anything. This guy wanted to kill. He was hot for it. And he would have found a way. Are terrorists using trucks as weapons an argument to no longer use trucks?

Those wanting to havbe tighter gun laws, would have a case if statistics would show that ordinary citizens, peacefull and law-obeying, time and gaain would draw their weapon and start firefights with each other. But this is not the case. Firearms used for committing suicide, are also no argument, because the decision wheter or not somebody wants to end his life, is his decision, and not that of society or state.

And finally, tighter gun laws would not prevent cirminals commiting crimes by the use of firearms. Becasue - and that is ignored by anti-.wepaon aqctivists all the time - crimes are mostly beign committed by the use of illegal firearms. And these illegal firearms, their avialability and their numbers, you do not tackle by taking the wepaons out of the hands of ordinary people who are no problem anyway. You just render the latter helpless victims.

What really is behind these outcrys whenever an amok run takes place or excessive use of firearms by a nuthead or a criminal killed people, si somethign else, probably, a psychological thing. People want life and world to be good and safe for them. Predictable, and themsleves masters who are in ciontrol of their future, their life'S time. And then somebody coimes and takes this tiem and life away as he wants, and all the mehcinaisms of prjecting more or lerss illusive proteciton (police, and spending on security), get shattered. Chaos breaks into the fairy tale world where the good fairy rules and everybody can get not harmed if he plays by the rules. Trouble in paradise! Chaos...! Suffering, pain, madness. This is more than many can handle, can bear, they are grabbing for just any straw to revive the dream, the illsuion of that total security cna be had: lets ban weapons! No weapons allowed, no harm from weapon - logical, eh? Well, its fairy tale logic where animals can tlak and miracles cna happen if you say the magic word or dream the mystcial dream under the right tree, in the right night.

It may be human. But it is - well, it is, sorry, childish.

And it does not work.

The argument by activists oftehn is that people are carrying weapons becasue they are afraid. Well, what is the argument in that? That they would not be afraid when beign in danger and not being armed. My reply to that would be this: most people want a wepaon, because it is the big equalizer, and enables them to confront the bad guy even if he is stronger than they are. They do not want weapons because they are afraid - they want a weapon so that they must not be afraid.

Fight and conflict between humans, are part of human history, and I claim: part of hman nature. There will enver be a time when peopel will not fight, will not use force, will not wage war. And be honest: to not insignificant part that is because violeance is fascinating, there is not adventure whereyou enjoy the excitement without ther ebeign risk and danger involved, and not few people on this planet find violance to be a valid tool to use in order to get what they want. Thats the world you and me and everybody have to live in. We may not like it, but I do not see the world changing dramatically any time soon. War, killing, violence is a legimtite form of communcation for not a few people int he worlds. You do not like that. I do not like it. But that'S how it is. War is part of our human nature. Fighting, killing is part of life. An ordinary part of life, I would evensay. Tjhat we mourn perosnaol losses and sacrifices, doe snot chnage that, only illustrates that this time we got personally affected. Life goes on, world continues to revolce aroudn the sun, live with it. All nature is fighting aorund us.

Last year, a good movie was to be seen at the cinema, or was it two years ago already: Arrival. In it, the military wants to recruit a linguist explert to communicate with aliens that arrived on planet Earth. The expert sends the Colonel, who had doubts on her, to another expert and tells him he should ask that one for the explanation and translation of the old Sanskrit word for "war". Later, the Colonel rings at her door in the night and hires her and tells her the other expert told him that the translation for the Sanskrit word for war means: "I want more goats".

Some always want more goats. Some because they are greedy and never can get enough, others because they value goats differently than the other.

And to quote another movie, there are other guys who just want to see the world burn, and nothing more than just this.

Sean C · 10-03-17, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

No, it just that it would be nice to see the "well regulated" part of the 2nd enforced as much as the rest of the Amendment; it's obviously there for a reason; the Founders felt the importance and the the need to include the phrase; it's obviously there for a reason they foresaw...

The "well regulated" part refers to the militia itself. The militia is composed of the people who have the right to bear arms. It does not say that the people or the arms should be regulated. And anyway, the phrase "well regulated" in that sense and at that time meant "well trained". There are plenty of contemporary examples of it being used that way.

Having said that...even though I am an avid supporter of the second amendment and a gun owner (and carrier) myself, I think you'd have to be crazy to oppose laws which would keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable or malicious people. But that's not as easy to accomplish as one might think. Unfortunately, psychopaths are usually pretty good at hiding their true nature. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the kind of people who commit these atrocities have little regard for any law in the first place.

So what can we do? Personally, I think there is more than one way to address this problem. However, guns are intricately linked to American culture and have been since this country was founded. Even if it was possible to take away all of Americas guns (it isn't), I don't think that would ever happen. More effective measures to prevent these sorts of tragedies? I hope that does happen.

Onkel Neal · 10-03-17, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Méo

I think he's got a really good point here, and I don't want to imagine what a dad, a mom, a husband/boyfriend or wife/girlfriend of the victims would feel after reading this.

This thread was politicized early on. Go back and check.

Oberon · 10-03-17, 08:01 PM

Pfft, what's the point in even discussing it anymore? Nothing will change. If it was going to change it would have done so before now, so it won't, not even when the death count tops a hundred in a future shooting. So save your energy. It just isn't worth it.

Mr Quatro · 10-03-17, 08:10 PM

I know this is tin hat stuff, but what if his wife is in on it. She was born in the Philippines and had Australian citizenship. She worked in Vegas for years as a hostess for high rollers. She takes off (when has not been established) for the Philippines and her husband this nut job wires her $100,000.

She then moves on to live in Japan when this all goes down and is now planning to come back to the USA to answer questions. The authorities keep saying "oh she's not a suspect" "we just want to talk to her".

This shooter took years to plan this job by acquiring all of these weapons and ammunition ... she must have known something. He had electronics and camera's set up on a serving cart in the hallway. He even had a camera in the room filming his actions to hurt as many people as he could, which I bet we see film footage of that soon and very soon (remember there is no trial he's dead).

Should I drop the 'M' word on us at this early date? Maybe, maybe not ... but nut jobs have to have some reason to plan all of this so far in advance.

Cancer or something, plus his father was a nut job too that died in 1998.

Lots of unanswered questions, but one thing is for sure he was angry about something and no one has come up with that answer.

fireftr18 · 10-03-17, 09:00 PM

Thoughts and prayers for those involved. Prayers for our country and world.
I was tired of hearing about it about an hour after the story broke. I'm going to ignore most of it until the facts can come out and I can read them written in a concise manner. There is still a lot to the story that we're not being told.

Méo · 10-03-17, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Pfft, what's the point in even discussing it anymore? Nothing will change. If it was going to change it would have done so before now, so it won't, not even when the death count tops a hundred in a future shooting. So save your energy. It just isn't worth it.

Yeah, I should have think about it in the first place.

But one sure thing is that if I ever go back in the U.S. again it will strictly be for business purposes only and I'm gonna make it short and sweet.

10-03-17, 02:28 PM	#62
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,892 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	This link posted by Dowly already has it all. http://www.theonion.com/article/amer...ocialMarketing Why do something? The problem is the man, not the weapon. So give everone on this planet the atomic bomb, then we will all be free and secure __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 10-03-17 at 02:56 PM.*

10-03-17, 04:22 PM	#66
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,925 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Time for me to post, yet again, one of my favourite quotes "These are dangerous times. When we are afraid, we want to be protected, and since we cannot protect ourselves against such horrors as mass murder by bombers, we are tempted to run to the government, a government that is always willing to trade the promise of protection for our freedom, which left, as always, the question: How much freedom are we willing to relinquish for such a bald promise?" Gerry Spence Substitute bombers with snipers/shooters and it applies to this incident __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-03-17, 06:39 PM	#69
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,456 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	It was the use of wepaoins that enabled man to protect himself from the beasts of the wilderness that hunted him, later it were weapons that enbaled man to avoid starvation by hunting aniumals too dangeorus or too big to hunt them wiothout wepaons; and then again weapons were what allowed the weak to protect themselves agai8nstth e physically supeiror guy. Wepaons are the big equalizer, and thus have probably done more for justice and self-protection to man as any word, any code, and good intention alone. And if ever civilization may fall again - and that can happen easily, since in Freuds word civilised manners are only a very thin layer of paint that all to easily can be scratched off - then it will not educaiton or intention, not gold and not stockpiled food, not a reserve of medical drugs and not a begging smile on a face that can keep the looter and plunder, the murderer and rapist away. What then decides whetehr oyiu becomne prey and will need to suffer what you must - is a weapon and your skill to use it. THIS guy in Las Vegas, was a nuthead, and obviously he was hot for illing scores of people. He wanted it, by all what he can say. And so he would have found a way to do so. We have saeen in past months how cars and trucks can be turned into wepsaons easily, killing scores. Think of truck bombs. If people would have no right to carry arms, it still would not have prevented anything. This guy wanted to kill. He was hot for it. And he would have found a way. Are terrorists using trucks as weapons an argument to no longer use trucks? Those wanting to havbe tighter gun laws, would have a case if statistics would show that ordinary citizens, peacefull and law-obeying, time and gaain would draw their weapon and start firefights with each other. But this is not the case. Firearms used for committing suicide, are also no argument, because the decision wheter or not somebody wants to end his life, is his decision, and not that of society or state. And finally, tighter gun laws would not prevent cirminals commiting crimes by the use of firearms. Becasue - and that is ignored by anti-.wepaon aqctivists all the time - crimes are mostly beign committed by the use of illegal firearms. And these illegal firearms, their avialability and their numbers, you do not tackle by taking the wepaons out of the hands of ordinary people who are no problem anyway. You just render the latter helpless victims. What really is behind these outcrys whenever an amok run takes place or excessive use of firearms by a nuthead or a criminal killed people, si somethign else, probably, a psychological thing. People want life and world to be good and safe for them. Predictable, and themsleves masters who are in ciontrol of their future, their life'S time. And then somebody coimes and takes this tiem and life away as he wants, and all the mehcinaisms of prjecting more or lerss illusive proteciton (police, and spending on security), get shattered. Chaos breaks into the fairy tale world where the good fairy rules and everybody can get not harmed if he plays by the rules. Trouble in paradise! Chaos...! Suffering, pain, madness. This is more than many can handle, can bear, they are grabbing for just any straw to revive the dream, the illsuion of that total security cna be had: lets ban weapons! No weapons allowed, no harm from weapon - logical, eh? Well, its fairy tale logic where animals can tlak and miracles cna happen if you say the magic word or dream the mystcial dream under the right tree, in the right night. It may be human. But it is - well, it is, sorry, childish. And it does not work. The argument by activists oftehn is that people are carrying weapons becasue they are afraid. Well, what is the argument in that? That they would not be afraid when beign in danger and not being armed. My reply to that would be this: most people want a wepaon, because it is the big equalizer, and enables them to confront the bad guy even if he is stronger than they are. They do not want weapons because they are afraid - they want a weapon so that they must not be afraid. Fight and conflict between humans, are part of human history, and I claim: part of hman nature. There will enver be a time when peopel will not fight, will not use force, will not wage war. And be honest: to not insignificant part that is because violeance is fascinating, there is not adventure whereyou enjoy the excitement without ther ebeign risk and danger involved, and not few people on this planet find violance to be a valid tool to use in order to get what they want. Thats the world you and me and everybody have to live in. We may not like it, but I do not see the world changing dramatically any time soon. War, killing, violence is a legimtite form of communcation for not a few people int he worlds. You do not like that. I do not like it. But that'S how it is. War is part of our human nature. Fighting, killing is part of life. An ordinary part of life, I would evensay. Tjhat we mourn perosnaol losses and sacrifices, doe snot chnage that, only illustrates that this time we got personally affected. Life goes on, world continues to revolce aroudn the sun, live with it. All nature is fighting aorund us. Last year, a good movie was to be seen at the cinema, or was it two years ago already: Arrival. In it, the military wants to recruit a linguist explert to communicate with aliens that arrived on planet Earth. The expert sends the Colonel, who had doubts on her, to another expert and tells him he should ask that one for the explanation and translation of the old Sanskrit word for "war". Later, the Colonel rings at her door in the night and hires her and tells her the other expert told him that the translation for the Sanskrit word for war means: "I want more goats". Some always want more goats. Some because they are greedy and never can get enough, others because they value goats differently than the other. And to quote another movie, there are other guys who just want to see the world burn, and nothing more than just this. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-03-17, 08:10 PM	#73
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I know this is tin hat stuff, but what if his wife is in on it. She was born in the Philippines and had Australian citizenship. She worked in Vegas for years as a hostess for high rollers. She takes off (when has not been established) for the Philippines and her husband this nut job wires her $100,000. She then moves on to live in Japan when this all goes down and is now planning to come back to the USA to answer questions. The authorities keep saying "oh she's not a suspect" "we just want to talk to her". This shooter took years to plan this job by acquiring all of these weapons and ammunition ... she must have known something. He had electronics and camera's set up on a serving cart in the hallway. He even had a camera in the room filming his actions to hurt as many people as he could, which I bet we see film footage of that soon and very soon (remember there is no trial he's dead). Should I drop the 'M' word on us at this early date? Maybe, maybe not ... but nut jobs have to have some reason to plan all of this so far in advance. Cancer or something, plus his father was a nut job too that died in 1998. Lots of unanswered questions, but one thing is for sure he was angry about something and no one has come up with that answer. __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

10-03-17, 09:00 PM	#74
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,526 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Thoughts and prayers for those involved. Prayers for our country and world. I was tired of hearing about it about an hour after the story broke. I'm going to ignore most of it until the facts can come out and I can read them written in a concise manner. There is still a lot to the story that we're not being told. __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

10-03-17, 08:01 PM	#72
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Pfft, what's the point in even discussing it anymore? Nothing will change. If it was going to change it would have done so before now, so it won't, not even when the death count tops a hundred in a future shooting. So save your energy. It just isn't worth it.

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