Five dead, including gunman, in Tennessee military facilities shootings

[Wolferz]

Can we really call ourselves a civilized society if all we think about is thumping a bunch of radical Koran thumpers?

Islam strives for total control by mixing their politics and their religion.

We in the US are just the opposite and just like Islam, we smack down anyone who attempts to buck the status quo.

Sometimes I think our government is all about the military/industrial complex and they maintain the status quo by constantly creating new enemies when the old ones fold.

[Oberon]

So basically we've got to convert them to our way of thinking through a campaign of systematic destruction and indoctrination.

Sounds familiar...

Anyway, what gives us the right to essentially declare war on nearly a quarter of the world?

[August]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

We in the US are just the opposite and just like Islam, we smack down anyone who attempts to buck the status quo.

Oh really? Just like Islam? When was our last public beheading? When was the last time we locked a human being in a cage then immolated him with a flame thrower? Just like Islam?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So basically we've got to convert them to our way of thinking through a campaign of systematic destruction and indoctrination.

Sounds familiar...

Anyway, what gives us the right to essentially declare war on nearly a quarter of the world?

Most are in nations that are controlled by more secular govts. The problem is we're dealing with a corrupt ideology, much like nazism, except it lives under the cover of religion. Through history it takes proper reindoctrination, but it can simply be done be freedom of religion, press, etc. Most Muslims don't follow the true tenants of Islam no more than Jews follow the OT. Somehow in the ME, Islam has to be reformed like other religions into a moderate self spiritualism.

This won't happen unless , like in other wars we become concerned for our very survival as a nation. The problem is we always wait until we pay dearly for it and one day playing this waiting game while such evil is on the march may cost us the end game.

[Frömmler Vogel]

Originally Posted by August

Oh really? Just like Islam? When was our last public beheading? When was the last time we locked a human being in a cage then immolated him with a flame thrower? Just like Islam?

1747 for the barbaric UK's last public beheading but the evil French carried on until 1977 although they were no longer public by then and I'd wager some time in 1964-1975 for the flamethrower action though there were several incidents that didn't get reported due to what happened at Cam Ne. So we've moved onto more technologically advanced methods of disposal of our social refuse. The result is the same, a dead body.

Taking in context, Wolferz is not wrong.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Most are in nations that are controlled by more secular govts. The problem is we're dealing with a corrupt ideology, much like nazism, except it lives under the cover of religion. Through history it takes proper reindoctrination, but it can simply be done be freedom of religion, press, etc. Most Muslims don't follow the true tenants of Islam no more than Jews follow the OT. Somehow in the ME, Islam has to be reformed like other religions into a moderate self spiritualism.

This won't happen unless , like in other wars we become concerned for our very survival as a nation. The problem is we always wait until we pay dearly for it and one day playing this waiting game while such evil is on the march may cost us the end game.

Most Muslims aren't hardcore traditionalists and a lot of hardcore traditionalists, whilst medievalesque in our viewpoint, aren't members of Daesh or Al'Qaeda. In fact, one could make the arguement, and many Muslim leaders do, that Daesh and Al'Qaeda are not following the Qu'ran, in a manner in which many other organisations both religious and otherwise criticise their extremists for taking a simple idea further than intended.
So, let's say that you do declare war on Islam, do you really think that the people living in the secular nations will remain moderate? When you're killing people because of their religious choices, do you really think that other people of the same religion will just sit back and take it?
What drives a lot of young people to travel to Syria and join Daesh is the feeling that they do not belong in a western society, that no-one trusts them, that everyone assumes that because they are a Muslim they are automatically an extremist, that their religious choice is wrong and they are backward for taking it. That feeling of not belonging is then exploited by Daesh recruiters by offering them a place where they will belong, where they will not face that judgment and state monitoring, where their name will not cause 'national security alerts', and like any young person who doesn't feel like they belong, they will flock to somewhere where they feel like they will.
If you make their fears and feelings official by taking the course of action that you propose, then Daesh will not be able to cope with the amount of new recruits that they will receive and you will make an enemy of 1.57 billion people.
What you propose is essentially 21st century colonialism, and surely someone from America can work out the pitfalls involved in trying to force anything on a nation far away from your own?

[eddie]

Going to be a long struggle with Daesh, especially when they are teaching their children to fight and carry guns even as toddlers!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...nts/ar-AAddTqz

And there is this-

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/07...xt-generation/

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

Oh really? Just like Islam? When was our last public beheading? When was the last time we locked a human being in a cage then immolated him with a flame thrower? Just like Islam?

We use drones. No one said we had to use the exact same techniques as the Islamic apostates.

Being beheaded or having a building collapse on you. In the long term, it really does not make much difference to the victim.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Even so called moderate Islam is dangerous for the civilized world.

That is an interesting statement considering we have Muslims currently serving in the US military. I would be very interested in reading any citations that support this assertion.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Platapus

We use drones. No one said we had to use the exact same techniques as the Islamic apostates.

Being beheaded or having a building collapse on you. In the long term, it really does not make much difference to the victim.

However the West (for a lack of a better word) doesn't target people because they are Muslim, we target them for committing capital crimes while they target everything that is "unislamic". We try to avoid collateral damage (emphasis on try as we know it doesn't always play out that way) while collateral damage is what the terrorist try to achieve. I'm sorry but I do see a difference there.

Originally Posted by em2nought

Better than the rest of the world getting the idea that nuking the USA is the solution to global warming.

Might be the solution for many other problems though...

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

We use drones. No one said we had to use the exact same techniques as the Islamic apostates.

Being beheaded or having a building collapse on you. In the long term, it really does not make much difference to the victim.

There's a big moral difference between a drone missile that accidentally kills civilians being used as a human shields and an enemy that deliberately and continually seeks out civilians to kill by the most heinous methods possible. Which do you prefer? Being killed by a falling building or being shot then having your entire family and community rousted out into the desert and shot, maybe raped and tortured first with younger ones being shipped off to slavery?

It'd be nice if wars could be fought in places devoid of civilians but that is not how it ever turns out. The best any war time protagonist can do is try and minimize civilian casualties which we do as much or more than any other army in history.

Sorry for the speech but I resent implications that we're no different than our enemies. The differences are vast and run very deep.

Originally Posted by August

There's a big moral difference between a drone missile that accidentally kills civilians being used as a human shields and...

You are aware that this isn't exactly how it works, right?
While 'they' use civilians as a shield, it is obvious that those in command of drone strikes stopped giving a damn a long time ago.

Do some research on the drone topic, it opened my eyes quite a while ago.
It isn't as surgical as the Air Force channel on YouTube claims to get new operators, or to calm the conscience of American citizens.

Civilian casualties aren't 'accidental' - they are being accepted!

Drones aren't a problem, they are excellent tools.
The way they are being used (at least by the US) is just criminaland should not even be open to debate.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by August

Sorry for the speech but I resent implications that we're no different than our enemies.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the idea that we're as bad as our enemies is coming out of "our" schools.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Do some research on the drone topic...

Could you be so kind as to point us in the right direction, at least a little?