[REL]The Wolves of Steel - SH5 Megamod

[Muckenberg]

Hello
This is very great news that there will be a type XIV in the game. And the exchange for some tankers and merchant ships will be more beneficial for the game. I look forward to a new update.


One more question. Would it be a big problem to increase the range of supply ships? After all, the circling is not very natural. And a little bit of that search for a supply ship would also be quite faithful.

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Well, it's not going to a real "looker" but it'll be better to have a real milch-cow for in-patrol refitting instead of currently used Dithermarschen class tankers and type VIIC U-boats...What do you thing guys?

Loving it!

I've been reading a book on "milk cows" recently... these guys had one of the hardest jobs ever. Looking forward to see them in game.

Will it be able to submerge? I don't know if this is already in game's radio messages but standing orders were not to submerge your boat in event of air attack during refuelling and provide cover until milk cow is safely under water.

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Loving it!

I've been reading a book on "milk cows" recently... these guys had one of the hardest jobs ever. Looking forward to see them in game.

Will it be able to submerge?

I don't think so, at least not for now. It will have AI of a regular armed replenishment merchant (type=100). I don't want to take any chances for now since submarines AI is very questionable to say the least.



Still have to solve few problems though, for example AI sonarmen can detect her but player can not so any tips will be useful...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Well, it's not going to a real "looker" but it'll be better to have a real milch-cow for in-patrol refitting instead of currently used Dithermarschen class tankers and type VIIC U-boats...What do you thing guys?

If you ask me, where/when historically appropriate milch-cows will make a nice addition. Keep in mind that the first patrol by a Type XIV U-boat started on late March '42, and the last of them was sunk on 12 Jun 1944. During this interval they surely played an important role in the Battle of the Atlantic, especially during Operation Torch, yet you should also consider that only 10 U-boats of this class were in commission, the majority of them not entering active service before summer '42 (some of them much later) and being killed in action between spring and autumn '43. Five out of ten didn't manage carrying out more than three sorties and, of those, three were killed during their first patrol.

On the other hand, before the first "Milch Cows" started their service, and alongside them (after their commissioning) a number of German auxiliary ships - oilers, supply vessels, but also commerce riders - carried out replenishment duties in the North and South Atlantic and in the Indian Ocean, refitting among the other German vessels a considerable number of U-boats. This is to say that completely replacing the Dithmarschen (or any other ships used in that role in the OHII campaing and in the current TWoS campaign) with the Type U-boat, would be historically inaccurate and detrimental to the variety of the game.

If you want to know more on the U-boat replenishment operations that involved a ship as the supply vessel, you will find more details at the following links:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...nt#post1945324
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...98#post1950598

Unfortunately most of the pictures and of the charts that illustrated my lists went lost, but should you need those charts I can recreate some of them. Moreover, if you think that a list of all the U-boats the are know for having been replenished by another U-boat (with dates and locations) might ease your task, I will gladly collect that information for you.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Still have to solve few problems though, for example AI sonarmen can detect her but player can not so any tips will be useful...

I should have a look into the files. Can you upload them somewhere?

[Tonci87]

By the way, is it possible to disable Torpedo replenishment at sea?
I don´t think that Torpedoes were replenished at sea IRL, or am I wrong?

[gap]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

By the way, is it possible to disable Torpedo replenishment at sea?
I don´t think that Torpedoes were replenished at sea IRL, or am I wrong?

I think I have read reports where some U-boats received a small amount of torpedoes from replenishment vessels. I can't say if that was a common practice, but it made sense anyway: what would have been the point of keeping the boats longer at sea, if they couldn't get a fresh load of their main weapon?

[Tonci87]

Originally Posted by gap

I think I have read reports where some U-boats received a small amount of torpedoes from replenishment vessels. I can't say if that was a common practice, but it made sense anyway: what would have been the point of keeping the boats longer at sea, if they couldn't get a fresh load of their main weapon?

Fuel, Water, Food

I just can´t imagine Torpedo replenishment being done easily at sea. Passing a fuel line and provisions, ok. But trying to lower a really heavy and long torpedo with a crane onto a very small area on a very small vessel, that will be severely affected by even small waves? There is just too much that can go wrong. My impression is that U´boats returned to port once their torpedoes were all fired.

The replenishment at sea was needed when the journey to the patrol area was very long, or if if took a long time for a boat to find enough targets.

I do not have hard data to back that up, but I never saw anything claiming that Torpedoes were replenished at sea.

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

If you ask me, where/when historically appropriate milch-cows will make a nice addition. Keep in mind that the first patrol by a Type XIV U-boat started on late March '42, and the last of them was sunk on 12 Jun 1944. During this interval they surely played an important role in the Battle of the Atlantic, especially during Operation Torch, yet you should also consider that only 10 U-boats of this class were in commission, the majority of them not entering active service before summer '42 (some of them much later) and being killed in action between spring and autumn '43. Five out of ten didn't manage carrying out more than three sorties and, of those, three were killed during their first patrol.

On the other hand, before the first "Milch Cows" started their service, and alongside them (after their commissioning) a number of German auxiliary ships - oilers, supply vessels, but also commerce riders - carried out replenishment duties in the North and South Atlantic and in the Indian Ocean, refitting among the other German vessels a considerable number of U-boats. This is to say that completely replacing the Dithmarschen (or any other ships used in that role in the OHII campaing and in the current TWoS campaign) with the Type U-boat, would be historically inaccurate and detrimental to the variety of the game.

If you want to know more on the U-boat replenishment operations that involved a ship as the supply vessel, you will find more details at the following links:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...nt#post1945324
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...98#post1950598

Unfortunately most of the pictures and of the charts that illustrated my lists went lost, but should you need those charts I can recreate some of them. Moreover, if you think that a list of all the U-boats the are know for having been replenished by another U-boat (with dates and locations) might ease your task, I will gladly collect that information for you.



I should have a look into the files. Can you upload them somewhere?

Thanks for the info Gap. I'll certainly try to follow historical facts as much as possible...

Originally Posted by Tonci87

By the way, is it possible to disable Torpedo replenishment at sea?
I don´t think that Torpedoes were replenished at sea IRL, or am I wrong?

No, I don't think that's possible. It all or nothing in SH games...

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

By the way, is it possible to disable Torpedo replenishment at sea?
I don´t think that Torpedoes were replenished at sea IRL, or am I wrong?

It was done. Speaking from memory, since I've given the book on it back to library, but it had reports of U-boats (not just "milk cows", but also attack boats returning from patrol with torpedoes for whatever reason - damage, lack of fuel, etc) being odered by BdU to transfer their torpedoes to another boat.

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

It was done. Speaking from memory, since I've given the book on it back to library, but it had reports of U-boats (not just "milk cows", but also attack boats returning from patrol with torpedoes for whatever reason - damage, lack of fuel, etc) being odered by BdU to transfer their torpedoes to another boat.

Yes, I have read.similar reports. Not only torpedoes were transferred from attack boat to attack boat, but fuel as well.

[Tonci87]

Originally Posted by gap

Yes, I have read.similar reports. Not only torpedoes were transferred from attack boat to attack boat, but fuel as well.

I really wonder how they did it.

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

I really wonder how they did it.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...85&postcount=9

[Tonci87]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...85&postcount=9

Thanks for that!

Damn sailors are crafty

[gap]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

Thanks for that!

Damn sailors are crafty

[Lugermann]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Thanks for the info Gap. I'll certainly try to follow historical facts as much as possible...

Maybe this is useful.

Know war cruises of type XIV:





Source: The Milk Cows. U-Boat Tankers at War 1941-1945. John White. Pen & Sword Military, 2009.