[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

- While fitting out a Balao in Midway, 6/44, the crew deck gun slots were lost when we switched the 5" from stern to bow. How to fix?

Fix: go to ActiveUserPlayerUnits in the Documents folder, locate the affected crewmember slots and remove the "AdditionalRepository" language from the files, being careful to maintain spacing between the surrounding language.

Side effect: One crewmember's thumbnail pic remains enlarged on the roster display. This may result from not placing all GC members into watch quarters instead of leaving them assigned to the pre-existing gun slots, as PropBeanie correctly forewarned.

This was done on a Gar-class, not Balao, but should work just as well.

Unrelated anomalies observed:
- When upgrading from a Sargo to a Gar, both bow and stern gun positions displayed correctly. When returning to the port screen after a save, all changes had been lost and the bow position no longer loaded properly. See above for fix.
- Both the Sargo and Gar had five aft torpedo reload slots; I verified that the Gar aft torpedo bunker data file was set to four, not five. No idea where that's coming from

[KaleunMarco]

it is mid-July 1944, we have just been modded with the fourth and final conning tower upgrade, and although it is advertized, there are no twin 40's available for our boat.

all of the definitions are their proper place (Unitpart, upgrades, etc) but the code will not execute it.

!#$%^%$#-Ubi.

[zeus]

hello

will there be a next update soon?

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

it is mid-July 1944, we have just been modded with the fourth and final conning tower upgrade, and although it is advertized, there are no twin 40's available for our boat.

all of the definitions are their proper place (Unitpart, upgrades, etc) but the code will not execute it.

!#$%^%$#-Ubi.

Yes, something is 'off' there... the guns are supposed to be available 1944-06-01. I'll look and the 4th conns upc and see if I find a typo or something...

Originally Posted by zeus

hello

will there be a next update soon?

We had the first beta for team testing two months ago, and then we started taking turns getting sick with various illnesses... I am currently trying to get over a left-side pneumonia, and having a bit of trouble shaking it. Age plays a factor in things anymore, or course... Anyway, hopefully here in about a week, we will have managed to double-check all of our previous double-checks... Very difficult to pick-up from where we were. Sorry.

[pitti]

Then get well quickly. All the best.

[Mios 4Me]

USS Gudgeon, ex-Midway, previous Slot assignment completed, none requested, so went for a field day where at 163°, 105km, from Moen airfield, at approx 1500 local on 7/15/42 we chased down a reported warship and found a stationary convoy consisting of:
- Kyokuro Maru, listed as slow, but found to be at speed 00 when viewed from the periscope, oriented SSE
- CH-28, stationary, SSE
- Type A1 sub, stationary, SSE

The tanker emitted no funnel gases, nor did the first two torpedoes elicit any smoke or flames. The third did the trick.

I realize I've returned late in the development cycle of the next version; would it be better to hold bug reports until that has dropped?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

What happens with the Contact Reports is the Ship Type used by the Reports. The mod uses Type=0 through Type=20, but the stock game handling of Contact Reports does not know what anything over a Type=11 BB is, so the "logic" can be bad, dependent upon what you encounter in a group. We have tried several constructs, and will keep trying.

ok, but HOW does the SH4-engine choose which of the 20-or-so Dynamic Missions will apply?
i understand that some of the Dynamic Missions (DM) are configured for convoys and some are configured for task forces but aside from that what is the selection criteria or algorithm? it is stored in a parm file or is it totally randomized and hard-coded?

[Jeffg]

I hope everyone is doing ok, being old is not fun sometimes I am 67. My wife just got back from a trip and has Covid.I have tested negative twice so far.

Jeffg

[hunter301]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The main problem Torpex77 is that the Tench Class boat is not supposed to be available until January of 1945. Since it is not an active boat, it crashes the game.

This is a concept we have been trying to wrap our heads around since the beginning of the game. It's nice that they decided to "reward" a player with a high score by presenting them with a new boat - but NOT until after it is available in the game! All of the updates they had done to this game, and they never bothered to fix the issue. As modders, we have to pay attention to dates on everything. But the game itself apparently can ignore them, and just do whatever whenever. The boat is restricted in multiple places, but the game will still give it to you early. It behooves the player to familiarize themselves with when boats are available (multiple pdf files in the Support folder).

What you will have to do is re-arm and re-fuel, but NOT end patrol. Go back out and do a Status update if you want more assignments, or just go sink stuff. Come back in to dock at Guam after January 1, 1945. You should then make if fully through the process of docking. I am surprised it did let you dock previously...

WOW I couldn't believe this article was written a week ago. As long as this game has been out and with everything people have been able to do with this game it's amazing that we can't fix stuff like this.
Is there a hidden source code that is unavailable to use?
If we can alter any .cfg files why can't we fix this problem.
Not criticizing just curious.
I have been playing this game off and on since it first came out and I'm always amazed at how many changes can be made to this game.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by hunter301

WOW I couldn't believe this article was written a week ago. As long as this game has been out and with everything people have been able to do with this game it's amazing that we can't fix stuff like this.

"other users" have been aware of this stuff for quite a while and have been trying to fix it since SH4 was released.

Originally Posted by hunter301

Is there a hidden source code that is unavailable to use?

all of the source code is off-limits for change. i will not re-enter the argument that others have had regarding the legality of changing source code when you have purchased a use-only license.

Originally Posted by hunter301

If we can alter any .cfg files why can't we fix this problem.

excellent question. when we apply modifications to certain files, we are changing the conditions under which the source code operates without changing the code itself. Remember the tale of Captain Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru?

[hunter301]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

"other users" have been aware of this stuff for quite a while and have been trying to fix it since SH4 was released.

all of the source code is off-limits for change. i will not re-enter the argument that others have had regarding the legality of changing source code when you have purchased a use-only license.

excellent question. when we apply modifications to certain files, we are changing the conditions under which the source code operates without changing the code itself. Remember the tale of Captain Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru?

Excellent answers.
Being somebody who does more playing than modding what exactly is a source code and why can't it be seen?
Are there files that are downloaded with the game that we actually can't see?

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by hunter301

Excellent answers.
Being somebody who does more playing than modding what exactly is a source code and why can't it be seen?
Are there files that are downloaded with the game that we actually can't see?

Think "SH4.EXE". It was created by UBI programmers, compiled and then linked (more or less - the process is dependent on the programming language used to write the code) with all the elements that go into the game that we run. Neither the source (original) code nor the executable code generated from the source code is publicly available. What is available to modders are the peripheral-type files that determine how the written code within SH4.exe will execute based on the parameters defined in those files.

Because I am an old Assembler and COBOL programmer my vision of how the SH4 programs are put into executable form is likely not accurate, but the process is essentially the same no matter the language, unless someone is writing and modifying machine language (not likely these days). I don't intend to get into a technical argument over the nits of what really has to happen. Just trying to paint the picture of what it is that we cannot have!

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by hunter301

Excellent answers.
Being somebody who does more playing than modding what exactly is a source code and why can't it be seen?
Are there files that are downloaded with the game that we actually can't see?

+1 TorpedoBait

source code is techno-lingo for programming language stuff.
there are many programming "languages".
TorpedoBait mentions that he is proficient in a couple of those.
Silent Hunter was probably written in C-Language or one of its derivatives.

source code is then combined with libraries of common tools which are used in programming and an "executable" is created. there are the various ".exe" files that you see in folders. in addition to .exe files, there are other proprietary files such as DLL files which contain encrypted information specifically formatted to work with the .exe.

the .exe and .dll files are proprietary to the software developer. we call them source code or executables or a lot of other names. you and i (and other SH4 users) agreed to a EULA that says we cannot modify the source code of Silent Hunter.

you and i (and other SH4 users) modify the peripheral files used by the .exe and .ddl files. those files are NOT encrypted and are used to change the conditions under which the game is played.

so, apologies if i went all-Propbeanie on you. suffice it to say that we-users can change some aspects of the game but not others.

[Mad Mardigan]

Basically, with the .exe & .dll files, leads to... is about the equivalent of... an individual being rendered deaf, dumb & blind... then put like a hamster into a maze, that is only circular in nature & expected to find the corner... only problem is... what corner.?





Of course, this is just a simplification of the frustration I feel (& pretty sure, am NOT alone in feeling that way about it, either... ), in the screw ups that Ubi made, NOT being able to be... corrected, as they seriously need to be.

Know, that just as well as I do, that of course... I don't, can't & won't speak for all, nor will I ever claim to... for that matter.








M. M.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

USS Gudgeon, ex-Midway, previous Slot assignment completed, none requested, so went for a field day where at 163°, 105km, from Moen airfield, at approx 1500 local on 7/15/42 we chased down a reported warship and found a stationary convoy consisting of:
- Kyokuro Maru, listed as slow, but found to be at speed 00 when viewed from the periscope, oriented SSE
- CH-28, stationary, SSE
- Type A1 sub, stationary, SSE

The tanker emitted no funnel gases, nor did the first two torpedoes elicit any smoke or flames. The third did the trick.

I realize I've returned late in the development cycle of the next version; would it be better to hold bug reports until that has dropped?

This particular issue was the main impetus behind doing a v1.8 before we went into the v2 era. The problem that two patrols pass by each other in front of the Moen docks. One dodges the other, but runs into the docked ships, which are then displaced, or "bumped" into movement, and are set to "drift". The game at the time of the "collision" is in database mode, so there are no 3D objects colliding (other than the ships), including the ships with (no) docks, the ships with (no) land, only the ship-on-ship collision is tracked apparently. Depending upon when the player's sub comes withing the ships' spawn range, determines how far from their original position they are when you see them. Hence, you see them over 100 km from their original position, because if there were no obstacles in their way, that is how far they would have drifted from the collision, before coming to a stop. This is the 3rd incident like this in Truk, and is "repaired" in v1.8, which is running late for release... Thanks for the mention though.

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

ok, but HOW does the SH4-engine choose which of the 20-or-so Dynamic Missions will apply?
i understand that some of the Dynamic Missions (DM) are configured for convoys and some are configured for task forces but aside from that what is the selection criteria or algorithm? it is stored in a parm file or is it totally randomized and hard-coded?

Look at the top of the "Data \Campaigns \Campaign \DynamicMiss.cfg" file, and you'll see 20 Sections that each deal with the Contact Report the player sends in. I am not certain of the logic, because the player has to ID 3 ships (3x "Ship spotted sir!" reports), and has to have one targeted at the time of sending the Contact Report. To me, instead of the game going through them 1 through 20 in order, it seems to be a game of chance until if it gets to Section 20, which is one of two "Disengage" messages sent back. You can see the "AllMatch" and "PartialMatch" lines as they apply, and that is where the game (supposedly) makes its "decision".

It does seem though, that the game "cheats" and knows what is in a group, most of which you cannot "see". I have had it to where I see two escorts ("Ship spotted sir!"), and targeted a Light Cruiser, only to have the game tell me "Troop transports are a high priority. Sink all transports you can find." Whuh? I didn't see no shtinking transport! It seems to be a game of mumbly peg though, that the game is not that good at, and it generally hits itself in the foot, and then dials in the Section 20 response. A game of chance. If the game chooses something above 19 or 20 though, it calls that particular file in the "Data \Campaigns \Campaign \DynamicMiss" folder. We are constantly experimenting in there, trying to get appropriate responses, at an OK level. We do not want "Attack!" responses 100% of the time, but we definitely want more than 1-in-10. If a player goes to the trouble of ID'ing 3 ships, and targeting one long enough to get off a Contact Report, at the risk of being seen by the group, then surely BdU - er, CenPac can respond more positively... lol

Originally Posted by hunter301

WOW I couldn't believe this article was written a week ago. As long as this game has been out and with everything people have been able to do with this game it's amazing that we can't fix stuff like this.
Is there a hidden source code that is unavailable to use?
If we can alter any .cfg files why can't we fix this problem.
Not criticizing just curious.
I have been playing this game off and on since it first came out and I'm always amazed at how many changes can be made to this game.

The other fellows gave excellent answers for the files. There are no hidden files in the game. Modders can edit the text-based files to their heart's content. Other files are bit more difficult to mod, but some are "reachable" with Silent3Ditor. Those include the "ship" files, which technically are not "source code-based" assets. Some modders familiar enough with hex editing have edited other parts of the games. Modders have been able to "fix" several aspects of the game that were still broken after the release of v1.5 of the game. One thing the devs never did fix, and there is probably a good reason for that, is the "date" issue. I cannot call for a submarine that is not "active" prior to its starting date, such as the Balao (1943-05-21 in FotRSU) and the Tench (1945-01-01 in FotRSU). The game however, uses New Command (submarines) and Re-Fits (new conning tower) as "rewards" for higher scores in the game. This would all be well and good, except that the game will oftentimes "reward" the player with a new boat several months before its Active date. You either end up with being retired, a CTD, or a Flying Dutchman scenario. The game does not honor the new boat, because the dates do not agree with what the game has. We have tried to set those dates earlier, and the game just gives the boats & conns away that much earlier. We have set them later, and the game continues to offer them three months too early. It is next to impossible to try to control or compensate for that aspect of the game. Similar holds if you have an AI battleship (such as an Iowa Class, which while the 1st was commissioned in Feb 1943, did not see action until November 1943. The game will place those in the game whenever it encounters a GENERIC call for a Type=20 BB, whether it is appropriate date-wise or not... So why does the game restrict the player and the modders with dates, but not itself?... - there are other niggly aspects of the game that irk me to no end that I wish were fixed, but the "dates" thing, to me, is the biggest of them all.