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Old 11-11-21, 12:09 AM   #1
Bubblehead1980
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Default Ever had this happen?

TMO 2.5 with update


USS Seal SS-183 (Salmon Class)

Torpedoed two ships in convoy December 16, 1943. Escorts closing. I order 250 ft and drop the scope as pinging starts. I notice though, the boat which was at 63 ft (periscope depth) suddenly began to ascend and could not be stopped until nearly surfaced at 25 ft. The submarine broached and with closest merchant just 1200 yards astern and two escorts closing , one at 2500 yards other at 3000, put my in a ugh precarious situation. Boat seemed to squat for a moment, but it seemed like an hour, before descending again. Heavy gunfire came my way but fortunately no hits.

However, with the escorts having a visual on me, this let them know exactly where to search. The first DC pass put one pretty close to control room judging by the sound and serious damage. Hull damage went to 43 percent, heavy flooding in control room, every piece of equipment damaged or destroyer, conning tower flooding (minor) equipment damaged, damage in forward torpedo and aft engine rooms as well.Trim pump knocked out (repaired, eventually), depth control was difficult.

Assume they believe they destroyed the boat, because gave up just two hours later. External cam was of but a previous leak in fuel oil tank fixed was reopened, lost a bit of fuel. Assuming the "oil" effect was showing outside. Wonder if AI can see this? hmm. Really was unusual how quickly the gave up, in ideal sonar conditions i.e. calm seas, never went below 280 ft due to concerns of hull damage, was making a lot of noise using speed to control depth while repairs conducted , water pumped.

I survived. Before surfacing, found both periscopes were out of action, three of our bow torpedo tubes no functioning. Out of torpedoes in stern tubes. Fuel at 26 percent, was at 32 before submerging for attack. Turned for home, arriving 27 December 1943. Six ships sunk, but heavily damaged.


Wondering if anyone has had their boat broach like this before?

I did not hit any key by mistake, I was at 63 feet, used the depth gauge to order 250 and this happened.


Wondering if it could be:

I had a very intense depth charge attack 16 days before, suffered damage, including the fuel oil tank, wondering if this is "unseen damage" i.e. that does not reflect on the DC screen, to the ships ballast tanks perhaps? I know this does happen to some systems that should be, but are not displayed on DC screen.


Change to floatability factor of submarine in .zon (matches travellers mod)

SH 4 somehow misunderstanding my order for 250 feet?

or just a fluke, a freak thing?
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Old 11-11-21, 12:19 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
TMO 2.5 with update


USS Seal SS-183 (Salmon Class)

Torpedoed two ships in convoy December 16, 1943. Escorts closing. I order 250 ft and drop the scope as pinging starts. I notice though, the boat which was at 63 ft (periscope depth) suddenly began to ascend and could not be stopped until nearly surfaced at 25 ft. The submarine broached and with closest merchant just 1200 yards astern and two escorts closing , one at 2500 yards other at 3000, put my in a ugh precarious situation. Boat seemed to squat for a moment, but it seemed like an hour, before descending again. Heavy gunfire came my way but fortunately no hits.

However, with the escorts having a visual on me, this let them know exactly where to search. The first DC pass put one pretty close to control room judging by the sound and serious damage. Hull damage went to 43 percent, heavy flooding in control room, every piece of equipment damaged or destroyer, conning tower flooding (minor) equipment damaged, damage in forward torpedo and aft engine rooms as well.Trim pump knocked out (repaired, eventually), depth control was difficult.

Assume they believe they destroyed the boat, because gave up just two hours later. External cam was of but a previous leak in fuel oil tank fixed was reopened, lost a bit of fuel. Assuming the "oil" effect was showing outside. Wonder if AI can see this? hmm. Really was unusual how quickly the gave up, in ideal sonar conditions i.e. calm seas, never went below 280 ft due to concerns of hull damage, was making a lot of noise using speed to control depth while repairs conducted , water pumped.

I survived. Before surfacing, found both periscopes were out of action, three of our bow torpedo tubes no functioning. Out of torpedoes in stern tubes. Fuel at 26 percent, was at 32 before submerging for attack. Turned for home, arriving 27 December 1943. Six ships sunk, but heavily damaged.


Wondering if anyone has had their boat broach like this before?

I did not hit any key by mistake, I was at 63 feet, used the depth gauge to order 250 and this happened.


Wondering if it could be:

I had a very intense depth charge attack 16 days before, suffered damage, including the fuel oil tank, wondering if this is "unseen damage" i.e. that does not reflect on the DC screen, to the ships ballast tanks perhaps? I know this does happen to some systems that should be, but are not displayed on DC screen.


Change to floatability factor of submarine in .zon (matches travellers mod)

SH 4 somehow misunderstanding my order for 250 feet?

or just a fluke, a freak thing?
Hmmm...

Just outta curiosity... any green crew in the control room section, by chance...

Sounds like a new guy mistake that'd possibly, be made there... (not saying you as the skipper... but a lower rate seaman) Could be them panicking, hitting the controls to blow ballast, rather than hitting the controls to rip open the flood tanks controls...

Myself, I always go for hitting the "crash dive" command rather than use the depth gauge to order fast dives... (same for going to peri depth & for surface normal/blow ballast, as well.) but, that's just Me.



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Old 11-11-21, 12:43 AM   #3
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Hmmm...

Just outta curiosity... any green crew in the control room section, by chance...

Sounds like a new guy mistake that'd possibly, be made there... (not saying you as the skipper... but a lower rate seaman) Could be them panicking, hitting the controls to blow ballast, rather than hitting the controls to rip open the flood tanks controls...

Myself, I always go for hitting the "crash dive" command rather than use the depth gauge to order dives... but, that's just Me.



M. M.
I was wondering, if maybe a 'fear factor" but built in, since as have mentioned before when they are listed as shaken, manic, etc their performance degrades, as it does with being tired.

Most crew fatigue levels were at 20 or below, as had secured from GQ after the night surface attack three hours before, this was a dawn periscope attack on same convoy.


The crew was at battle stations, men assigned to dive planes were experienced crew, each with seven war patrols, both eligible for promotion to PO1/c.
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Old 11-11-21, 12:51 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
I was wondering, if maybe a 'fear factor" but built in, since as have mentioned before when they are listed as shaken, manic, etc their performance degrades, as it does with being tired.

Most crew fatigue levels were at 20 or below, as had secured from GQ after the night surface attack three hours before, this was a dawn periscope attack on same convoy.


The crew was at battle stations, men assigned to dive planes were experienced crew, each with seven war patrols, both eligible for promotion to PO1/c.
Hmmm... experienced crew... is a strange occurrence but, not entirely out of the realm of possibility.



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Old 11-11-21, 04:07 PM   #5
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Wondering if anyone has had their boat broach like this before?
in a word, no.
the only time the boat has broached is when we had too much speed-on while we were coming shallow. that HAS happened but that is my issue not the crew or the boat.
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Old 11-11-21, 05:25 PM   #6
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If you used some of Trav's settings I suspect that's the only reason why. I do recall with other mods I could blow tanks and still get my sub going back down without surfacing, but with Travs mod it changed timing to get going back down. The same with changing depth, but always going up, it just took longer with Travs mod to reverse the depth going back down. For instance in TMO if I blew tanks to rise quickly during a charge attack I had to dive around 100 ft or I would broach, Travs mod about 150 ft. If you had too much flooding you could sink from the surface.
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Old 11-11-21, 08:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Armistead View Post
If you used some of Trav's settings I suspect that's the only reason why. I do recall with other mods I could blow tanks and still get my sub going back down without surfacing, but with Travs mod it changed timing to get going back down. The same with changing depth, but always going up, it just took longer with Travs mod to reverse the depth going back down. For instance in TMO if I blew tanks to rise quickly during a charge attack I had to dive around 100 ft or I would broach, Travs mod about 150 ft. If you had too much flooding you could sink from the surface.

Agreed. I have settled on it is most likely a the effect of travs flotation settings (which I like) likely combined ballast damage not listed in damage control systems screen. The models do have ballast tanks and all, are part of zones so assume can be damaged. The order for a large change from periscope depth to 250 ft was first time had made such a maneuver since the previous dc attack, had only made trim dives since.


I don't mind the broaching, or possibility of it happening, adds to the realism and challenge of the sim, was just unexpected.
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Old 11-12-21, 02:25 PM   #8
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Agreed. I have settled on it is most likely a the effect of travs flotation settings (which I like) likely combined ballast damage not listed in damage control systems screen. The models do have ballast tanks and all, are part of zones so assume can be damaged. The order for a large change from periscope depth to 250 ft was first time had made such a maneuver since the previous dc attack, had only made trim dives since.


I don't mind the broaching, or possibility of it happening, adds to the realism and challenge of the sim, was just unexpected.
Yea, I loved that part of his mod, tho I don't think I ever broached by setting depth deeper...if that's what you're saying. I remember once, probably like Wahoo, except later war I surfaced but sank back down due to flooding, but finally got surfaced, but with flooding I was riding way low and could only make about 10 knts full speed. I would not dare dive, did survive a few air attacks and got back to port in the Philippines ...99% damage. I can recall only doing that twice that I played.
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Old 11-12-21, 05:21 PM   #9
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Yea, I loved that part of his mod, tho I don't think I ever broached by setting depth deeper...if that's what you're saying. I remember once, probably like Wahoo, except later war I surfaced but sank back down due to flooding, but finally got surfaced, but with flooding I was riding way low and could only make about 10 knts full speed. I would not dare dive, did survive a few air attacks and got back to port in the Philippines ...99% damage. I can recall only doing that twice that I played.

I am thinking it is Travellers flotation settings (which I like) I have incorporated into the sim, plus I have decided to use some settings from RFB to get more realistic performance from subs...such as turn radius, acceleration etc. are the cause. Subs no longer star/stop/turn on a dime as they did, but maintain the advantages they had with diesels. Then,
just a few minutes ago I was trying to surface into heavy seas and sub surfaced to 25 ft, then started back down, had to add some speed to surface. So highly likely in the previous incident I posted about, that with damaged ballast tanks and having been a periscope depth a while for attack, the boat was light and popped up I suppose.
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Old 11-12-21, 08:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
I am thinking it is Travellers flotation settings (which I like) I have incorporated into the sim, plus I have decided to use some settings from RFB to get more realistic performance from subs...such as turn radius, acceleration etc. are the cause. Subs no longer star/stop/turn on a dime as they did, but maintain the advantages they had with diesels. Then,
just a few minutes ago I was trying to surface into heavy seas and sub surfaced to 25 ft, then started back down, had to add some speed to surface. So highly likely in the previous incident I posted about, that with damaged ballast tanks and having been a periscope depth a while for attack, the boat was light and popped up I suppose.
I bought a 1.5 disc online so hopefully I'll be back playing soon. Look forward to trying your mods.
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Old 11-12-21, 11:37 PM   #11
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I bought a 1.5 disc online so hopefully I'll be back playing soon. Look forward to trying your mods.

That is great news. Glad you found one, will enjoy it much more than having to deal with STEAM.

I imagine first of the year if not before will release another update, some things refined, few new features etc.

I am trying to get the get the longer sinking times for merchants and warships tweaked just right and the sub's floatation etc as well.

One issue I have ran into is the AI and other aspects seems to break (assuming files get corrupted) after switch out mods too many times. Makes testing a pain.


I sunk a Ise BB with one Mk 23 torpedo hit in Feb 1944 lol and went down in about 2 minutes lol something corrupted there. DD made one dc run, caused some damage then sailed on. Ideal sonar conditions, calm seas.

I was so disgusted I deleted the two careers had going and uninstalled the sim lol. I reinstalled.

Feb 1944, they should not be that lackluster. I noticed this during testing when had the DRUM for 14 patrols, seems like AI gets broken after a lot of uninstalled and reinstall of the mod.



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