Why am I sinking ?

[pmcmull]

So I got to my patrol area off of Hokkaido. And out of the air attacks. I am patrolling around in the area so I get credit for the objective. I get a solo ship or two to attack - one was a large modern tanker so very nice for the stats. And I find a nice convoy cutting through with 6 or 8 merchants. And get in position to get close. And suddenly I get sunk! So load from a recent save and try again with a convoy in a slightly different location. And get sunk again! And reload and repeat and sunk again! And I'm not even getting actively attacked by any thing I can see. The first time I am maneuvering in to get past the destroyer screen and at a little over 200 feet. Another time I have taken to boat down to 220 feet to avoid getting pounded, and it happens again. Suddenly messages start coming in rapidly about damage and flooding and then in a few seconds the sub is spinning and it is the end. Depth charges are not even exploding yet.

I study the damage control panel, trying to figure out what the H is going on. And I see that hull damage is at 44 percent. So apparently that reduced the depth for the hull to fail by about half. To just about 220 ft. This is a Gar class sub. There was no warning at all.

I must have got the damage from near-miss bombs from the airplane attacks earlier. Never looked at the hull damage.

After that on the reload, I was Very Careful. Avoided warships as much as possible. And convoys. Picked off a couple of unguarded merchant ships. Got the credit for the first patrol area. Research on the forum said the repair could only be at the base at the end of patrol. So I headed directly back to Pearl, picking no fights. And crash diving a couple of time for planes. But going no deeper than 120 ft for anything.

At the end of patrol I got credit for one objective completed and I did sink 16K of cargo ships. So no awards, but able to repair and reload and head back out.



So watch out for that hull damage.



Pat

[les green01]

as you take damage your safe diving dept changes

[pmcmull]

Originally Posted by les green01

as you take damage your safe diving dept changes

Yes. And it snuck up on me. I go to the Damage Control panel and look at which of the items have been damaged. Never was watching for hull damage before.

[les green01]

also i learn the hard way not to run tc during attack even when you first start the escorts are far away

[Armistead]

Possible mine field, tho strange 3 tries and sunk each time, but if you can see or hear anything, it's what you don't see.

[Aktungbby]

...does the SH IV game simulate what was a small fact of life in the Pacific war: the clear seawater would permit an aircraft overhead to spot what would otherwise be a concealed submarine, particularly at periscope or shallow submerged depths? One such case was the recently discovered USS Granadier sunk in the Malacca Strait after being spotted by Japanese
aicraft:

In the morning, a plane was sighted; an immediate crash dive was ordered, but the ship did not descend far enough, fast enough. Blasts from two bombs battered the sub; key parts of the vessel were mangled; power and lights were lost and a fire broke out. All hands desperately worked to fix what they could as Fitzgerald ordered the ship to stay on the sea floor.

When it surfaced after 13 hours it was clear the Grenadier was too crippled to flee or fight. An effort was made to rig makeshift sails on a periscope to reach shore before blowing up the vessel, but there was dead calm.

As dawn broke, two ships on the horizon were closing in. Codebooks and sensitive equipment were destroyed as preparations were made to scuttle the submarine. A Japanese plane made a run at the ship, but was fought off with small arms, dropping a bomb harmlessly about 200 meters (yards) away. The crew abandoned ship at 0830 and an hour later were hauled aboard an armed merchant ship, which took them to Penang, a major port town on the Malayan Peninsula.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...-lost-in-wwii/ also

A Few Submarine Counterattack Experiences

THRESHER (Millican) sank a Japanese torpedo boat tender off Kwajalein on July 9, 1942. THRESHER was attacked by planes which could see her submerged silhouette in the clear water. The planes called in surface ships which trailed grappling hooks. Caught by one of these, Millican ordered ahead full, turned sharply to the right, and went deep - below test depth. She finally broke loose and escaped without further incident.

https://maritime.org/doc/subsinpacific.php

The U.S. put to sea a force of nearly 300 submarines altogether over the course of WWII, comprising 20,000 officers and enlisted men, or 1.6% of Navy's total personnel. So, a truly unique service representing less than 2% of the Navy destroyed over half of Japan's navy and merchant marine.

Along with the fifty-two U.S. submarines lost during World War II, more than 3,500 officers and enlisted men made the ultimate sacrifice. Our submarine service therefore lost 22% of its ranks, the highest statistical casualty rate for any branch of the U.S. military.

https://submarinememorial.org/roleofsubs.html

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Possible mine field, tho strange 3 tries and sunk each time, but if you can see or hear anything, it's what you don't see.

yep. mines and aircraft will do that, especially if you have any kind of time compression in effect. sub-players in SH4 have no underwater detection systems for a/c or mines.

for example, if you are tooling along, transiting an area underwater at TC256 at low speed (2-3 kts), every second of your time is over four minutes in game time.

so, a plane could spot you from overhead, maneuver into position and drop a bomb or two onto you and your valiant crew and you would go from tooling to dead and not know WTF happened.

same would be true if you wandered into a mine field @ TC256. it only takes one mine and you go from tooling to dead and not know WTF happened.

[pmcmull]

To come back to what I was originally posting about:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Possible mine field, tho strange 3 tries and sunk each time, but if you can see or hear anything, it's what you don't see.

I didn't see any sign of mines. And at 200+ feet submerged. Mines could be that deep?

also i learn the hard way not to run tc during attack even when you first start the escorts are far away

Understand how it can be a problem. No time compression involved in this case. At least on the plays on the reload. I really think it was the hull damage.


As to bomb attacks from aircraft. While I can't PROVE it wasn't a plane, isn't 200 ft. too deep for that?

[Murky Dregs]

90ft. depth in my experience seems to be the minimum where you can't be spotted overhead by aircraft. - You won't receive radio transmissions though...

[Aktungbby]

Murky Dregs! as your soubriquet reflects, seeking the murky dreg depths for concealment wasn't the same in the Pacific as in the Atlantic. In Tahiti, SCUBA diving off Morea and also Hawaii in the 80's, the visibility is 100 meters: up, down, and sideways...

[les green01]

in the pacific 150 ft course that during the day but in the night you have phosphorus that could give you away now dont know if it is in game and take account dept is taken from the bottom of the sub now Bottom mines could be use up 200 feet deep but in your case don't think it is mines but sometimes saving by ships or convoys can mess the save up

[smm]

Visibility from the air depends on a lot of factors, not just water clarity.
For example:
- wave action (even relatively small random ripples break the light a lot)
- type of bottom (white sand vs. abyssal plain or deep reefs)
- sun location (noon vs early evening/morning)
- cloud cover (can cast shadows)
etc. etc.
So, if the conditions are just right, I believe you'd see a sub at 50-60m, possibly even a bit deeper. 200m is dysphotic zone, where it's basically dark, and you'd not see anything for sure. I'd say in perfect condotions, over a white sand bottom, you'd be able to see about 100m if you know it's there.
But in most of the Pacific, in good weather, calm weather, persicope depth sub would be very visible from the the air.


--smm