Atlantic Storm

Leutnant_Werner · 02-21-12, 01:48 PM

moin Männer,

in all ever released mods i was not fully satisfied with the waves of the sea in storm condition. In my opinion the sh3 - and most mod - waves (at 15m/s) are too short and too fast.

because of that i'm trying to build the waves i found in some youtube videos:
e.g.

or

I have not finished it (by editing the scene.dat) but i like share a link of the work till now.
http://berkley.wunsch.com/Sturm_im_Atlantik.avi
The ship in the avi first make a movement we call in german "schlingern" then makes a turn to the left and do a movement its called "stampfen". Sorry, i do not know the words in english. Perhaps somebody can translate?

Mast und Schotbruch

Leutnant_Werner

Fubar2Niner · 02-21-12, 04:18 PM

@Leutnant_Werner

I'd love to see this, unfortunately media player refuses to play it

Welcome aboard anyway tho mate

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

Magic1111 · 02-22-12, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leutnant_Werner

I have not finished it (by editing the scene.dat) but i like share a link of the work till now.
http://berkley.wunsch.com/Sturm_im_Atlantik.avi
The ship in the avi first make a movement we call in german "schlingern" then makes a turn to the left and do a movement its called "stampfen". Sorry, i do not know the words in english. Perhaps somebody can translate?

The Video looks very interesting, looking forward to test your modded "scene.dat" in my game!

Best regards,
Magic

rik007 · 02-22-12, 02:55 PM

Leutnant_Werner, Welcome!

Very good! This is not an easy task as I worked on slow and bigger waves myself. (try: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=185646)

The trouble is that the ship in the movie is already almost floating. In periscope view this gets worse up to the point that it will jump. Other problem is that the bridge is going to be submerged too often when the sub is cruising at the surface. There is a kind of maximum to which you can enlarge the waves. Above it you will get side effects.

But I will certainly try it when you are finished!

Leutnant_Werner · 02-29-12, 11:19 AM

@ Fubar2Niner

i have installed the "K-Lite Mega Codec Pack" on my xp pro. Otherwise you can try to install the vlc media player.
Perhaps that is useful for you

@rik007

yes, i know about this problems too. Some points i try to adjust up and down at the moment are:

scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvData/EnvData/MaxWaveHeight
scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvSim/EnvSim/MaxWaveHeight/Wind/Waveproperties/3/Scale/Y (height) -- im not sure what's the different effect between the 2 values?

scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvSim/EnvSim/MaxWaveHeight/Wind/Waveproperties/3/Scale/Z (lenghth) -- this one is very sensitive. E.g. changing the value from 11,3184 to 11,3007 can cause visible effects. To find a proper adjustment can create realistic rolling waves.

scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvData/EnvData/MaxWaveHeight/SupressWaves/ChoppyWave -- this one is very interesting imo. It causes that the wave behaviour changes from forming as an "O" to an "8". If this effect is adjusted only a little larger then to the point of beginnig this behaviour, the result is what we call in germany "überschäumende Wellenkämme".

i will load up some other films the next days.

Best regards,
Leutnant_Werner

Kafka BC · 02-29-12, 02:02 PM

@Leutnant_Werner, Welcome also.

Watch what you do to the x and z scale settings for waves. Reducing the scale too much can cause nasty visual effects when the water is viewed from very high up like from an aircraft. These effects can be reduced by increasing the Patches number however doing this seriously lowers frame rates. Increasing the scale too much can also cause visual effects from height as well. I found this out the hard way when I was trying to make smaller waves for the lower wind speeds and large swells for the higher. The trick is striking a balance, and as rik007 said, it isn't easy.

I have found that modifying the SeaSpeed in Waveproperties in combination with modest changes to the scale and height far more effective in achieving better wave mechanics. Both the stock game and GWX increase the SeaSpeed when the wind increases when they should be lowered to more accurately reflect the effects of something called 'fetch' that the wind contributes to cause sea swells and waves to heap up, which being bigger move slower.

rik007 · 02-29-12, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafka BC

@Leutnant_Werner, Welcome also.

Watch what you do to the x and z scale settings for waves. Reducing the scale too much can cause nasty visual effects when the water is viewed from very high up like from an aircraft. These effects can be reduced by increasing the Patches number however doing this seriously lowers frame rates. Increasing the scale too much can also cause visual effects from height as well. I found this out the hard way when I was trying to make smaller waves for the lower wind speeds and large swells for the higher. The trick is striking a balance, and as rik007 said, it isn't easy.

I have found that modifying the SeaSpeed in Waveproperties in combination with modest changes to the scale and height far more effective in achieving better wave mechanics. Both the stock game and GWX increase the SeaSpeed when the wind increases when they should be lowered to more accurately reflect the effects of something called 'fetch' that the wind contributes to cause sea swells and waves to heap up, which being bigger move slower.

Yeah! The SeaSpeed should indeed be slowed at higher windspeed. That is crucial for getting good effects. Other mods and stock offer waves which move too fast. Once you noticed that it is irritating. Of course all the parameter should be tuned: scaling, Seaspeed, foam, windcoef LargeWavesArmonics (kind of damper) and coef etc.

You should also take care of efficient testing methods as you will have to test again and again. The best way is to use the naval academy missions as they load fastest. Then you need to figure out which time of the day correspond with which scene etc. Of course if you do the color part as well. But finally the one cannot be done without the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leutnant_Werner

scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvData/EnvData/MaxWaveHeight
scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvSim/EnvSim/MaxWaveHeight/Wind/Waveproperties/3/Scale/Y (height) -- im not sure what's the different effect between the 2 values?

First one is a kind of overall parameter affecting all wavesheights for the four different windspeeds. Looks like a multiplicative model.

Second one is a scaler for one of the four windspeeds. If I remember it well dimensions of the wave tile and height. Wave parameters for speeds between the four available are interpolated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leutnant_Werner

scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvSim/EnvSim/MaxWaveHeight/Wind/Waveproperties/3/Scale/Z (lenghth) -- this one is very sensitive. E.g. changing the value from 11,3184 to 11,3007 can cause visible effects. To find a proper adjustment can create realistic rolling waves.

scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvData/EnvData/MaxWaveHeight/SupressWaves/ChoppyWave

I think they are all pretty sensitive up to the point of desparation especially the color part of it. ChoppyWave is very easily overdone creating ugly deformations

Fubar2Niner · 02-29-12, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leutnant_Werner

@ Fubar2Niner

i have installed the "K-Lite Mega Codec Pack" on my xp pro. Otherwise you can try to install the vlc media player.
Perhaps that is useful for you

Thanks for the heads up Kaleun. I will surely try

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

Anvart · 02-29-12, 04:49 PM

Excellent!
But do not forget about this feature:

<< Sim.cfg >>
[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.5
Waves attenuation=0.03
...
... and for WindSpeed = 15 m/s ... to disperse the wave (distance of accelerate of waves) of 200 km wave height will be approximately 3.7 m.

Kafka BC · 03-01-12, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rik007

Yeah! The SeaSpeed should indeed be slowed at higher windspeed. That is crucial for getting good effects. Other mods and stock offer waves which move too fast. Once you noticed that it is irritating. Of course all the parameter should be tuned: scaling, Seaspeed, foam, windcoef LargeWavesArmonics (kind of damper) and coef etc.

You should also take care of efficient testing methods as you will have to test again and again. The best way is to use the naval academy missions as they load fastest. Then you need to figure out which time of the day correspond with which scene etc. Of course if you do the color part as well. But finally the one cannot be done without the other.

Couldn't agree with you more

, proper testing is very important for a full development. I have often found that if you change one parameter you very often have to change or tweak others after viewing the changes from as many viewpoints and environmental situations as I can.

@Leutnant_Werner

Since you seem to be using GWX or one of the supermods, it might help if you had a Copy of the Original Stock SH3 Scene.dat file to compare with. It is for an 8 kilometer environment and probably will not run with the mods you are using, but I learned by practically going through it line by line and observing the results.

Leutnant_Werner · 03-01-12, 02:40 PM

Thank you all, Kaleuns

i do as you told and will try and try and... ... ... ...

... ... ... ...found a new problem: The waves in a saved career seems sometimes to be higher than the ones in the academy navigation mode. (the wave modification in sh3 commander is off of course).
Do you have an idea, what 's the reason for this effect?

Best regards,
Leutnant_Werner

Kafka BC · 03-01-12, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leutnant_Werner

Thank you all, Kaleuns

i do as you told and will try and try and... ... ... ...

... ... ... ...found a new problem: The waves in a saved career seems sometimes to be higher than the ones in the academy navigation mode. (the wave modification in sh3 commander is off of course).
Do you have an idea, what 's the reason for this effect?

Best regards,
Leutnant_Werner

I use a bunch of saved careers as well as the academy for doing my testing, and I don't use SH3 Commander for adjusting the waves. I don't know if this applies to you, but I find the waves are a bit higher and ships bounce more when I load a saved game, after a few minutes they settle down to what I have set.

Don't let things like that discourage you, the game has a way of pulling little unexpected tricks on you when you mod, you will find the method that works for you.

Regards

Kafka BC

PS. I forgot to mention the game also seems to save some of the waves data when you save a game so I sometimes have to go 'hunting' for a weather change to see the changes I made. As well I don't think you always get fully accurate wind speed reports when you ask.

Kaleun Cook · 03-02-12, 10:09 AM

The video in the OP looks nice, keep up the good work.

Leutnant_Werner · 03-11-12, 10:37 AM

Hello,

here are 2 new avi-files of the newest adjustment.
http://berkley.wunsch.com/15.avi
http://berkley.wunsch.com/152.avi
they made at 15 m/sec..
in the first vid the VIIB crosses the waves (Stampfen) then the heading is changed and the waves come from the side (rollen). All without the bridge going under water.

Making this tests is a long way to tipparary ;-)

Leutnant_Werner

QC01 · 03-11-12, 12:02 PM

Spectacular work ! When reviewing your vid's on your mod for a more realistic wave motion during inclement weather , I couldn't help but realize how close this mod is approaching the same quality for SFX as in the movie Das Boot .
Looking forward to the finished product and you have my appreciation to the Master Work that you are accomplishing .

02-21-12, 01:48 PM	#1
Leutnant_Werner Watch Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 17 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Atlantic Storm moin Männer, in all ever released mods i was not fully satisfied with the waves of the sea in storm condition. In my opinion the sh3 - and most mod - waves (at 15m/s) are too short and too fast. because of that i'm trying to build the waves i found in some youtube videos: e.g. or I have not finished it (by editing the scene.dat) but i like share a link of the work till now. http://berkley.wunsch.com/Sturm_im_Atlantik.avi The ship in the avi first make a movement we call in german "schlingern" then makes a turn to the left and do a movement its called "stampfen". Sorry, i do not know the words in english. Perhaps somebody can translate? Mast und Schotbruch Leutnant_Werner

02-29-12, 02:02 PM	#6
Kafka BC Planesman Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 197 Downloads: 163 Uploads: 0	@Leutnant_Werner, Welcome also. Watch what you do to the x and z scale settings for waves. Reducing the scale too much can cause nasty visual effects when the water is viewed from very high up like from an aircraft. These effects can be reduced by increasing the Patches number however doing this seriously lowers frame rates. Increasing the scale too much can also cause visual effects from height as well. I found this out the hard way when I was trying to make smaller waves for the lower wind speeds and large swells for the higher. The trick is striking a balance, and as rik007 said, it isn't easy. I have found that modifying the SeaSpeed in Waveproperties in combination with modest changes to the scale and height far more effective in achieving better wave mechanics. Both the stock game and GWX increase the SeaSpeed when the wind increases when they should be lowered to more accurately reflect the effects of something called 'fetch' that the wind contributes to cause sea swells and waves to heap up, which being bigger move slower. __________________ Ah, for just one time I would take the Northwest Passage To find the hand of Franklin reaching for the Beaufort Sea Tracing one warm line through a land so wide and savage And make a Northwest Passage to the sea. - Stan Rogers (1949-1983)

02-29-12, 04:49 PM	#9
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	Excellent! But do not forget about this feature: << Sim.cfg >> [Mech] Waves amplitude=0.5 Waves attenuation=0.03 ... ... and for WindSpeed = 15 m/s ... to disperse the wave (distance of accelerate of waves) of 200 km wave height will be approximately 3.7 m. __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"... Last edited by Anvart; 03-17-12 at 07:29 AM.

03-01-12, 02:40 PM	#11
Leutnant_Werner Watch Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 17 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Thank you all, Kaleuns i do as you told and will try and try and... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...found a new problem: The waves in a saved career seems sometimes to be higher than the ones in the academy navigation mode. (the wave modification in sh3 commander is off of course). Do you have an idea, what 's the reason for this effect? Best regards, Leutnant_Werner Last edited by Leutnant_Werner; 03-01-12 at 05:17 PM.

03-11-12, 10:37 AM	#14
Leutnant_Werner Watch Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 17 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	one more avi Hello, here are 2 new avi-files of the newest adjustment. http://berkley.wunsch.com/15.avi http://berkley.wunsch.com/152.avi they made at 15 m/sec.. in the first vid the VIIB crosses the waves (Stampfen) then the heading is changed and the waves come from the side (rollen). All without the bridge going under water. Making this tests is a long way to tipparary ;-) Leutnant_Werner Last edited by Leutnant_Werner; 03-11-12 at 10:54 AM.

02-21-12, 04:18 PM	#2
Fubar2Niner Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: London. UK Posts: 4,139 Downloads: 275 Uploads: 0	@Leutnant_Werner I'd love to see this, unfortunately media player refuses to play it Welcome aboard anyway tho mate Best regards. Fubar2Niner

02-22-12, 02:55 PM	#4
rik007 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 704 Downloads: 117 Uploads: 0	Leutnant_Werner, Welcome! Very good! This is not an easy task as I worked on slow and bigger waves myself. (try: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=185646) The trouble is that the ship in the movie is already almost floating. In periscope view this gets worse up to the point that it will jump. Other problem is that the bridge is going to be submerged too often when the sub is cruising at the surface. There is a kind of maximum to which you can enlarge the waves. Above it you will get side effects. But I will certainly try it when you are finished!

02-29-12, 11:19 AM	#5
Leutnant_Werner Watch Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 17 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	@ Fubar2Niner i have installed the "K-Lite Mega Codec Pack" on my xp pro. Otherwise you can try to install the vlc media player. Perhaps that is useful for you @rik007 yes, i know about this problems too. Some points i try to adjust up and down at the moment are: scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvData/EnvData/MaxWaveHeight scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvSim/EnvSim/MaxWaveHeight/Wind/Waveproperties/3/Scale/Y (height) -- im not sure what's the different effect between the 2 values? scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvSim/EnvSim/MaxWaveHeight/Wind/Waveproperties/3/Scale/Z (lenghth) -- this one is very sensitive. E.g. changing the value from 11,3184 to 11,3007 can cause visible effects. To find a proper adjustment can create realistic rolling waves. scene.dat/Node -Sky/EnvData/EnvData/MaxWaveHeight/SupressWaves/ChoppyWave -- this one is very interesting imo. It causes that the wave behaviour changes from forming as an "O" to an "8". If this effect is adjusted only a little larger then to the point of beginnig this behaviour, the result is what we call in germany "überschäumende Wellenkämme". i will load up some other films the next days. Best regards, Leutnant_Werner

03-02-12, 10:09 AM	#13
Kaleun Cook Chief Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ger Posts: 313 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	The video in the OP looks nice, keep up the good work.

03-11-12, 12:02 PM	#15
QC01 Seaman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Quebec City Posts: 35 Downloads: 1720 Uploads: 0	Atlantic Storm Spectacular work ! When reviewing your vid's on your mod for a more realistic wave motion during inclement weather , I couldn't help but realize how close this mod is approaching the same quality for SFX as in the movie Das Boot . Looking forward to the finished product and you have my appreciation to the Master Work that you are accomplishing .