Terrorist attack in South Carolina

[August]

Originally Posted by Harvs

There lies the problem, everyone has to have a gun to protect yourself from people with guns, your constitution was written in 1787 when there were no automatic or semiautomatic weapons, pretty hard to have a mass shooting with a flintlock don't you think?

A mass shooting maybe but certainly not a mass killing. The worst school massacre in us history was committed with dynamite. The worst massacre box cutters and airliners.

There is no reason on earth to justify civilians owning military type weapons and handguns should only be issued for sporting purposes, its a sad reality that you will have plenty more mass shootings until the law changes.

I don't need to justify my rights and I resent your implication that my military "type" weapons would ever be involved in mass shootings.

Our constitution was written when free speech was limited to those within earshot or those who could afford to have their words laboriously hand printed in small numbers and distributed to the public by nailing a copy to a local tree. Does that mean to you the government should have the right to prevent us from posting our uncensored opinions on the internet because terrorist organizations like ISIS also use that medium to incite people to commit murder? What's your justification for being able to voice your opinion instantaneously around the world? Given the amount of trouble being caused by this freedom maybe one might consider no reason on earth to extend this right to you. See how that works?

Tyrants have always used contemporary emergencies to justify seizing power from the people which is exactly what this is about. And tyranny is exactly what will have to occur to make Americans give up their firearms in numbers sufficient to have the effect you wish.

Besides the biggest domestic terrorist attacks in us history were not carried out with firearms. Not even the largest school massacre. Those with such evil on their minds will always find a way regardless of the law. All government can do is take away the means for someone to stop them. There is a reason these massacres always happen in gun free zones.

[em2nought]

Guns aren't the problem, the wacko new world we are having dictated to us is. Bruce/Kaitlyn Jenner is a hero, not a murderer! Companies have the rights of individuals! Everybody can go to college and get a white collar job! White people can be black if they identify that way, everyone is a winner, running a huge deficit won't hurt anything, free trade is good, import tariffs are bad, income taxes are good, pitbulls are nice dogs and the folks that own them are too, people don't need to integrate into society if they want to come here, bowl haircuts look good , and on and on.

Actually a pitbull can be a nice dog, but the huge percentage of their owners are pure crap so...

[Sailor Steve]

Since this has wandered into yet another gun control debate, rather than let the threads be merged I've continued my argument in the Gun Control Thread

Please let's keep this on-topic.

[Onkel Neal]

Good move, Steve

[Torplexed]

Rather stunning at how fast the momentum seems to be building on finally withdrawing the Confederate battle flag for official use. A nice memorial to the Charleston victims if it follows through.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/us...flag.html?_r=0

What began as scattered calls for removing the Confederate battle flag from a single state capitol intensified with striking speed and scope on Tuesday into an emotional, nationwide movement to strip symbols of the Confederacy from public parks and buildings, license plates, Internet shopping sites and retail stores.

The South Carolina legislature, less than a week after nine parishioners were shot to death in a black church in Charleston, voted overwhelmingly on Tuesday to debate removing the Confederate flag from its State House grounds.

In Charleston, the board that governs the Citadel, the state’s 173-year-old military academy, voted, 9 to 3, to remove the Confederate Naval Jack from the campus chapel, saying that a Citadel graduate and the relatives of six employees were killed in the attack on the church.

Terry McAuliffe, a Democrat, ordered that the Confederate flag no longer appear on license plates, and political leaders in Maryland, North Carolina and Tennessee vowed to do the same.

"Don't let dem colors hit the ground." Actually they look pretty good there.

[em2nought]

I doubt taking away his little flag would have made this less likely to happen. He would have probably reacted better to cutting off welfare for mothers who have more than four children. If we're gonna start knee jerk fixes there's one that would lessen the hate.

What will all the drug addict rednecks in Florida do for blankets and curtains without a cheap supply of adulterated confederate flags? lol

[Oberon]

I must admit I'm pretty torn about the flag, I mean for one thing it's not the proper Confederate national flag, just the battle flag, so there's that...and on the other hand, well...it's a flag, just like the swastika in the white circle and red background. It's the sentiments that people give such a thing that is the problem.
I can't help but think that the whole 'Lost Cause of the Confederacy' bears some resemblance to the Dolchstoßlegende of post-WWI Germany, a legend brought about by the losing side.

Still, it does seem rather daft to have state government buildings flying it, all things considered, and a tad insensitive to not lower it to half-mast in the aftermath of the attack, or take it down completely for a week or so.

Still, an object is an object is an object, I have an item in my possession with a swastika on it, it doesn't make me a Nazi.

EDIT: Torplexed, that must be one of those Southern Belles I was promised....which reminds me, I need to continue that AAR at some point...

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by em2nought

What will all the drug addict rednecks in Florida do for blankets and curtains without a cheap supply of adulterated confederate flags? lol

I have no objection if some Son of the South wants the flag of Dixie on his tailgate, lampshade, or boxer shorts. The flag can stand for a kind of regional patriotism and pride in Southern culture, without necessarily indicating support for white supremacy. However, I do think the Confederate battle flag/memorial banner should be removed from public institutions and government works. It's been used by extremists to symbolize hatred and the desire to oppress, which is a damn shame. I always found it oddly ironic that what some true latter-day Johnny Rebs seem to want is official endorsement by the government for their "rebel" flag by displaying it in a government venue.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Oberon

EDIT: Torplexed, that must be one of those Southern Belles I was promised....which reminds me, I need to continue that AAR at some point...

You're lucky I didn't go with the other Southern Belle idea....the one I tastefully abandoned on the drawing board.

[Jimbuna]

^ I like that

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

^ I like that

Just because of the alcohol she's holding.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Just because of the alcohol she's holding.

Of course

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

You're lucky I didn't go with the other Southern Belle idea....the one I tastefully abandoned on the drawing board.

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Just because of the alcohol she's holding.

Finish that and send it to Armistead! He nose his art BBY! and needs an upgrade! It'll 'ring his Belle!'

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I have no objection if some Son of the South wants the flag of Dixie on his tailgate, lampshade, or boxer shorts. The flag can stand for a kind of regional patriotism and pride in Southern culture, without necessarily indicating support for white supremacy. However, I do think the Confederate battle flag/memorial banner should be removed from public institutions and government works. It's been used by extremists to symbolize hatred and the desire to oppress, which is a damn shame. I always found it oddly ironic that what some true latter-day Johnny Rebs seem to want is official endorsement by the government for their "rebel" flag by displaying it in a government venue.

Unfortunately, some of those extremists also flagrantly display the US Stars and Stripes along side the Stars and Bars as a means of adding a cachet of "patriotism" to their bilious ranting and raving. It is an equal shame and embarrassment our national flag, a symbol of unity and democratic equality is used by those who so plainly have no use for either unity or equality...

It has long been a common practice that once an enemy has been defeated, their flags and/or symbols are circumscribed as a part of their defeat. The Confederacy fought and lost their war; it was only due to the generous mercies extended by Lincoln, until the time of his death, at the hands of a Confederate 'patriot', that the Confederacy was not raked with more Draconian retribution. Considering the Confederacy, and its leadership, were guilty of treason, armed rebellion, and other crimes against the US, it is indeed a miracle they were not literally taken out and shot out of hand...

It is not the function of government to endorse, either openly or tacitly, the causes of those who are anathema to the tenets by which they govern. If some redneck wants to plaster the Stars and Bars all over themselves and their own property, we have freedom of expression, granted by the same Constitution their ancestors rebelled against, to protect them as individuals. The state, however, should not be displaying the symbols of those who acted in such a treasonous and shameful manner, historically. This is not really a matter of race; it is a matter of a common practice as it relates to how the ornaments of hatred, division, and civil rebellion used by a defeated foe are treated after said defeat. It makes about as much sense to mandate the flying of Confederate flag on state, county, and municipal grounds as it would to mandate the flying of the British Union Jack on Federal grounds simply because there are a very large number of British descendants in the US...


<O>

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I have no objection if some Son of the South wants the flag of Dixie on his tailgate, lampshade, or boxer shorts. The flag can stand for a kind of regional patriotism and pride in Southern culture, without necessarily indicating support for white supremacy. However, I do think the Confederate battle flag/memorial banner should be removed from public institutions and government works. It's been used by extremists to symbolize hatred and the desire to oppress, which is a damn shame. I always found it oddly ironic that what some true latter-day Johnny Rebs seem to want is official endorsement by the government for their "rebel" flag by displaying it in a government venue.

Now the Civil War monuments are under fire.