Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks

[Rockin Robbins]

Wow! I haven't seen CapnScurvy's Angle on the Bow Calculator in years, although I have one in the chair 4 feet from me. Here's the link to his Angle on the Bow and Speed Calculators web page!

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Great tools to improve the realism that much more

[I'm goin' down]

gutted's solution solver program comes with an angle on the bow calculator built in and ready to go. It is quite extraordinary. You can input the target speed and it will indicate the finite shoot bearing at any angle. He had a three parted video post on you tube for awhile that explained how it worked. I would pay for that device if someone would make one --hint, hint.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

And you can never go sailing without the 2 most important items of all....


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[Rockin Robbins]

My personal preference is to play with no external tools at all. No pausing the game and destroying my immersion to work any version of whiz wheel. No alt-tabbing to any angle on the bow calculator. I don't find that any of that is necessary at all and they ruin the flow of the game.

The real captains had to make decisions in real time and if we want to experience something valid that they experienced, time should not be stopped during the attack.

Sometimes these external tools actually increase complexity while giving you the same answer as determining enemy course and speed by plotting two radar positions 3 minutes apart. Then you can find angle on the bow with the protractor, clicking on the target track ahead of the target, clicking again on the target and a third time on the center of your sub. The angle shown is the AoB. Why leave the game to get it? You just can't get it any more accurately or as quickly any other way.

Yes, it would be nice if we had some more authentic tools in the game. But replacing them with external tools forces us into god mode where we have to stop time to use them.

That being said, if CapnScurvy's Angle on the Bow calculator were available in-game, I'd use it because my objection would be met and I no longer would have to alt-tab out or pause the game.

[I'm goin' down]

Double R, aka RR, should love this. Tracked and sunk an Otari Toramuzu with the OTC real scopes mod at night with no moon, map contacts disabled. Because the dd (or whatever it is) probably had radar, I did not use the TBT, which has illuminated Telemeter markings to get range at night. Plus, with Tokkyo's Revenge, if my sub were at TBT depth (around 30 feet), I am confident it would have been spotted. The OTC real scope's periscope's Telemeter marks are not illuminated, so it is usless at night. Thus the OTC mod could not be of help in planning this attack. What to do? Easy! Set up with an O'Kane shot per the Double R tutorials. (Did I ever understand that technique? We will find out, won't we?) The Otari Tormamuzu was steaming like a bat out of hell at 21 kts. Sheesh. It must have been going to a party or was late for a date! I set up with a 20 degree lead angle and fired as it crossed the wire at 20 degrees (Aob 70 degrees port). It looked like the torpedoes were off course, heading to the extreme port side (left side) of my boat. But wait. The dd, charging like a bull at Pamplona, steamed past 0 degrees, past 355 degrees, past 350 degrees, past 345 degrees, and there it was, sailing directly in front of four torpedoes wakes which were on a course closing on it fast. Two or three(?) hits at 340 degrees port side! I paused the game and grinned. She is going down! Break out the whiskey! Er... I meant the ice cream. Back to the game... so I can watch it sink.

[Rockin Robbins]

Holy Toledo, this guy is making whiskey ice cream!

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Touche on your comment RR! Yes you can not have a god mode and stop time. Completely unrealistic. I put tons of hours in on SH3 GWX at perfecting my manual targeting skills. Observations, distance/speed conversions off observations, all that good stuff. I've got using my AOB calculator and making observations down to a science, mate. No alt-tab or pause needed. Once I have course and speed entered into the computer AOB is easy and fast to come up with. My course + target course + bearing. Timing target zigs comes into play sometimes so AOB is not too difficult there either. My method is to observe general course, and get an angle on bow reading after the first zig, wait for the second zig, then fire on the third zig. Doesn't take enough time to pause game or alt-tab. I've got a pretty effective system set up. It's working for me, and that's really the key, right? Every captain has their own method, and what works for them, works.

[CapnScurvy]

With the use of "tools" comes a learning curve. Like we used to say "this guys so green, he doesn't know which end of the shovel to pick up"!

For most players learning which side is Port, Starboard, what's Relative Bearing, what's Angle on Bow, are new terms that need digesting. The manipulation of a tool like a slide rule, Omnimeter, Is-Was, the AoB Calculator, the To-North protractor on the Navigation Map, all need time to understand and use. Once understood and practiced a seamless progression could be made with real time.

The point is, in real life there was a whole group of trained specialists that were a part of the "Firing Party". Each having their specific task to do and check, while the Approach Officer (usually the Captain) sighted the target. This manual, the "Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual" in Chapter 4, referrers to anywhere between 13 to 15 men involved in the firing solution process (depending on what detection system is being used). It stands to reason that the game does not lend itself to use manual targeting and simulate these different specialists duties within a real time environment. Sure, we can with Automatic Targeting, but who wants to follow the "green triangle" to tell us when to fire. There's more to this game than just that.

So a compromise must be struck between a simulation of real duties/activities and real time passage. There is no crime to "take time" in ones attempt to make a simulation of the various tasks involved. As you learn, the process will become less time consuming, more automatic.

Yes, having the firing technique of setting up close to a passing ships track and "leading" the target as if it's a duck flying past a blind, doesn't take a slide rule to figure the shot. If it was always that simple though, the "Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual" could have been only 5 pages long! It's not, and for good reason. The purpose is to learn all aspects of preforming your tasks, in all different situations. Isn't that what we find ourselves doing? Each of us simulating what we believe is reality for the enjoyment of playing a game that can be played differently?

[Rockin Robbins]

And Scurvy has a point. They didn't pluck some bozo from the street and say "You're in command of a submarine! Good luck!" They had an extensive training period where they played war games. The most detailed discussion of this wargame training process is in the Run Silent Run Deep trilogy. Edward Beach (every submarine captain had his own firing party proceedure and some were quite diverse. Sometimes the captain figured he should be the one looking through the periscope, Morton and O'Kane figured the captain was a supervisor and the exec should be getting the periscope experience to move up to command of a submarine.) where was I?

Edward Beach explains how the war gaming procedure worked (really primitive and fascinating how they actually achieved enough realism to do the job!) and in that, they DID have the freedom to freeze time, talk over how they would run the procedures on the boat, learn to use all the tools, etc. Of course, with experience they evolved into a completely real-time process to have as much transfer as possible between dry land training and submarine application.

We should probably progress the same way, feeling free to stop time, puzzle out our procedures, work the tools, set the settings and then resume time again, when we are learning manual targeting. I think the whole thing could get really overwhelming otherwise, because even for an experienced player who knows what keys do what, is that starboard or port AoB, what do I do differently to set up a stern shot, what's that time/distance formula again, when all that is automatic, we STILL get pressed by time sometimes to the point that the prudent thing is to pull out and set up another attack. You have to develop the spider senses that tell you "the attack is blown" or "we're still good to go, shoot stupid!"

Please keep in mind that when I say my preference is to play in real time with no external tools, part of the reason is that it is appropriate for my level of experience. That advice would be foolish for a beginner unless he were learning the Dick O'Kane technique. Even then I bet he would want to pause the game and think about it a couple of times at first.

Part of what Silent Hunter teaches us is that there is a reason why there were so many misses in the war. Shoot or don't shoot wasn't a simple question of "are we still good" but also "if I don't shoot now will I get another chance before he kills me?" A shot not taken never hits. In combat, time is a harsh mistress. When lives are on the line, torpedoes get mighty cheap.

[Arlo]

My kingdom (or what passes for it) for audible commands and information I could speak into a mike while looking through the scope and a crew that mans the TDC and other stations inputting the information I give verbally.

Alas .... meh.

Still the best submarine sim evah.

[I'm goin' down]

Arlo, If I started barking voice commands to raise the pericope, take her to periscope depth, etc., my three poodles would certify me as "nuts."

Speaking of pausing the game and having more than one person on the firing team, yesterday I forgot to slow down my boat's approach and overshot its ideal firing point by several hundred yards. By the time I realized it, the Bizo Maru, which I had tracked for an hour, was almost on top of me. I fired from a few hundred yards off of its starboard beam, and all shots failed to detonate -- too close to detonate. I was so close the gunners on the target fired at the torpedoes' wakes. If I had only paused the game to check out the details .... And my Tambor had no deck gun, so the target escaped unscathed. A rare miss at close range with the OTC/real scopes/map contacts disabled....Arrrggghhh!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Arlo

My kingdom (or what passes for it) for audible commands and information I could speak into a mike while looking through the scope and a crew that mans the TDC and other stations inputting the information I give verbally.

Alas .... meh.

Still the best submarine sim evah.

I'll take a pass on your kingdom, but there is an add-on that works fine! Let me get back to you on that one after I find all the links and local files.

Okay, there are two, count 'em! two solutions. One is a program called Shoot! 1.6.4 Main page. Download page. It comes with an SH3 configuration file that I used extensively. When my wife began looking at me as if I were possessed, I kind of quit using the program. I THINK I have a configuration file I made up for SH4 somewhere around here. This program works magnificently, translating your words into keyboard commands and passing them on to SH4.

The second is a mod made specifically for SH4 called either shSpeech or sh4Speech, by minsc_tdp, because the author discovered that his program was useful for far more than SH4. No kidding!!! Anyway, you can download this at http://knepfler.com/shSpeech, and you can read the original thread at http://www.subsim.com/radioroo/showthread.php?t=119430. I've used it too and it works wonderfully.

Both have configuration files that you can edit. Shoot! has a configuration editor program that I like. I've edited it in my favorite text editor (notebook ++) too.

It's about time somebody asked the question that brings these two great additions to Silent Hunter back in the public eye!

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Voice mods.... I like that!

[I'm goin' down]

"!#ck yo!, you SOB," he said, as the crew fired torpedoes, ordered to do so upon hearing utterance of the voice command.