Cargo Ship Missing in Hurricane Joaquin

[Aktungbby]

Actually I looked that up and I thinks it's north of the triangle... but not by much; depending on which debris field your considering.

[August]

The Bermuda Triangle is famous for making ships and planes disappear without a trace. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean leaving a debris field 250 miles wide complete with floating bodies.

[iambecomelife]

Well, they called off the search. One body found, and they didn't even recover it. Not how I hoped things would end.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by August

The Bermuda Triangle is famous for making ships and planes disappear without a trace. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean leaving a debris field 250 miles wide complete with floating bodies.

Search resources are a lot better now days.
How do any of us know other ships didn't leave massive traces in the past?
And maybe the Triangle is taunting us now.
Would be the kind of thing something like that would do.
'Just when you think you know? BLAM!! New stuff!!'

[Sailor Steve]

Of course all this discussion assumes that the "Bermuda Triangle" is anything more than a myth. No more ships and planes have disappeared there than in any other part of any ocean, anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Well, they called off the search. One body found, and they didn't even recover it. Not how I hoped things would end.

Tragic

[August]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

One body found, and they didn't even recover it.

There are conflicting reports about that.

Only about a third of the reports say it wasn't recovered and the rest say it was. I have to believe that leaving a body behind to float God knows where would cause no small amount of public angst. On the other hand no matter how mangled it was a DNA test would pretty quickly identify a body given that they know who is related to the crew and I haven't heard about any post mortems or other examinations.

[Aktungbby]

Ro/ros have wide vehicle decks. They are essentially parking lots at sea. The wide and open decks are necessary for efficiently driving vehicles on and off the ships. The problem is that even moderate flooding of the vehicle deck can dramatically destabilize a ro/ro. The sloshing of the water on the vehicle deck, referred to as the “free surface effect,” can cause the ship to capsize rapidly and without warning. Other Ro/RO's:....water on the vehicle deck caused the ship to capsize in 90 seconds, not long after leaving the dock. 193 passengers and crew were lost. In 1994, the passenger ro/ro Estonia capsized and sank with more than 900 lives lost when the bow door was torn off by heavy seas. In 2004, the ro/ro car carrier Baltic Ace capsized and sank in 15 minutes following a collision with a container ship in the North Sea.

Between 90 seconds and fifteen minutes in supremely heavy 30' seas with 100+ mph ferocious wind and no power I don't see how any one got off in a swift capsize event particular to this type of vessel. Clambering into a survival suit or a lifeboat takes time.....http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2015/10/el-faro-a-roro-not-a-container-ship-and-why-that-mattered/

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Of course all this discussion assumes that the "Bermuda Triangle" is anything more than a myth. No more ships and planes have disappeared there than in any other part of any ocean, anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle

What? You linked that as the definitive source?

[Aktungbby]

well actually Steve's link hold up pretty well considering the topic( I used it myself) ; here's another; http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/01/myth-bermuda-triangle/

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Between 90 seconds and fifteen minutes in supremely heavy 30' seas with 100+ mph ferocious wind and no power I don't see how any one got off in a swift capsize event particular to this type of vessel. Clambering into a survival suit or a lifeboat takes time.....http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2015/10/el-faro-a-roro-not-a-container-ship-and-why-that-mattered/

Yes; I once got a good look at a RO-RO ship in my local port that had its doors open. I was amazed at how much open space was below decks. I also thought of what a serious problem it would be if it suffered any flooding, unlike other types of ships with more watertight compartments.

Given that at least one person managed to put on a survival suit, I'd imagine the crew of "El Faro" knew for a few minutes that she was about to go down. OTOH she could have floated for a long time disabled before sinking, like the "Munchen" in 1978. We may never know.

[Catfish]

Looking at modern ships, it strikes me how ungainly and somehow less seaworthy they seem to be. RoRo ships were never good ships when it came to storms, but the new overloaded container ships with 5 or more levels of containers above the upper deck ... just look at the underwater body compared to this load.

Ok we all obviously "need" south korean and chinese goods, and it all has to be cheap. But all this comes at a cost.
I remember when the "Herald of free Enterprise" [sic!] sank, in the channel, due to sub-standard front doors not being up to wear and weather. It all is an economic question, it seldom is about security. Then new modern cruise ships have not enough life boats, for all passengers, and they have other standards, than the merchant 'navy'..


Regarding the "Bermuda triangle" i am not one to believe in myths or paranormal events. What has been once said is that the break-up of frozen methane-hydrates may cause sinkings, and also the loss of planes under certain conditions.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Between 90 seconds and fifteen minutes in supremely heavy 30' seas with 100+ mph ferocious wind and no power I don't see how any one got off in a swift capsize event particular to this type of vessel. Clambering into a survival suit or a lifeboat takes time.....http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2015/10/el-faro-a-roro-not-a-container-ship-and-why-that-mattered/

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Yes; I once got a good look at a RO-RO ship in my local port that had its doors open. I was amazed at how much open space was below decks. I also thought of what a serious problem it would be if it suffered any flooding, unlike other types of ships with more watertight compartments.

Given that at least one person managed to put on a survival suit, I'd imagine the crew of "El Faro" knew for a few minutes that she was about to go down. OTOH she could have floated for a long time disabled before sinking, like the "Munchen" in 1978. We may never know.

Apologies: My point is illustrated by the pictures also per the wiki site: two suits are required: one at the berth/bunk and at the work station. http://www.setsail.com/survival-training-part-5-immersion-suits/ Pics in this link show a tedious process; and I've climbed into similar 'dry' scuba suits myself ...very slow methodical process. Under two minutes is good. Now add the waves, apprehension and the wind and just clearing a rotating 700 ft vessel (capsizing) into the equation.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

What? You linked that as the definitive source?

Before you mockingly dismiss the source out of hand, I suggest you check his sources. They are valid and specific. The "Bermuda Triangle" is a myth, pure and simple.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Before you mockingly dismiss the source out of hand, I suggest you check his sources. They are valid and specific. The "Bermuda Triangle" is a myth, pure and simple.

What I 'mockingly dismiss' is one that can't see a tongue in cheek joke.
Sorry I wasted your valuable post time.