Submarine investigation under way after female officers filmed

[Betonov]

Why prevent women from serving alongside men.

Because some men can't handle themselves ???

They can't handle their own hormones and they're supposed to run a weapon platform able to obliterate my country.
Keep women in and weed the pervs out.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Keep women in and weed the pervs out.

How exactly does one do that BEFORE something happens?

[Oberon]

So basically you're saying that you have no self-restraint?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

How exactly does one do that BEFORE something happens?

You don't, but equally you don't blame it on the women for being there in the first place.

It's pretty simple, if serving members of the USN, or RN for that matter, are unable to show self-restraint then they should be put somewhere in a position where they are not in charge of thousands of dollars/pounds of killing equipment.

It's not exactly difficult to show self-restraint after all, in fact compared to Basic Training it's probably the easiest thing on the course, I mean if you feel that amorable on board a boat then locate a video from x-Cricetus cricetus and rub it out. In other words the exact same thing that submariners have been doing for the past century, and I have no doubt that women submariners will face the same problems as their male counterparts on patrol and have to find their own method of relief.

Non-consensual voyeurism is a criminal offense, and should be treated as such, no matter where the location.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So basically you're saying that you have no self-restraint?

You probably are quite a monk...also have no idea how it is with bunch of young people in military...
Yet I also disagree with Skybird.
Im all for equality , things like this will happen...not necessary due to male misconduct as well...just take it as part of life and a consequence.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by MH

You probably are quite a monk...

Ha! I wish!

No, I have a roving eye, just like any other male, and I am not immune to hormonal and deep seated genetic traits. However, equally I don't go around filming women without their consent, I don't grope, or rape, or do anything to a woman that is against her will. It's not really rocket science.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You don't, but equally you don't blame it on the women for being there in the first place.

No one did. So far people blamed it on hormones and age old parts of the male brain.

It's pretty simple, if serving members of the USN, or RN for that matter, are unable to show self-restraint then they should be put somewhere in a position where they are not in charge of thousands of dollars/pounds of killing equipment.

You'll only find that out after something has happened.

It's not exactly difficult to show self-restraint after all, in fact compared to Basic Training it's probably the easiest thing on the course,

Er...not sure I can follow. Let me tell you that there are people with a very strong sexual drive and even I noticed certain desires after just two weeks in a military exercise.

Non-consensual voyeurism is a criminal offense, and should be treated as such, no matter where the location.

On that we can agree.

Originally Posted by MH

You probably are quite a monk...

My thought exactly.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

No one did. So far people blamed it on hormones and age old parts of the male brain.

Indeed, but using this as an excuse for the reason why women should not serve on submarines is punishing the woman for the actions of the men.

You'll only find that out after something has happened.

Sadly this is true, just like in any event or crime. Which is a double edged sword really, preventative crime fighting is a very hit and miss affair which will often find innocents guilty as much as it does the guilty.

Er...not sure I can follow. Let me tell you that there are people with a very strong sexual drive and even I noticed certain desires after just two weeks in a military exercise.

But did you immediately go and find a woman and rape her? I doubt it. Therefore you controlled your desires, you showed self-restraint.

On that we can agree.

All I ask for is male self-restraint, just as I would ask for female self-restraint. If it's consensual then by all means, go crazy, but if it's not consensual then it shouldn't happen.

But what do I know? I suffer from reasonophobia because I believe in equality in not just the law, but in all things in life. Apparently that's a bad thing.

[Aktungbby]

Alright! Since I'm the only one with practical experience here: On my now legendary 3-week treks into the mosquito hell of the Minnesota/Canadian/Quetico Wilderness we had cameras. When a lady paddler wished to put into shore for a quick call-of-nature we naturally forbeared of foto-ops...inasmuch as a lady with a paddle (and a full bladder) is to be regarded with respect...especially as she will be doing most of the cooking of the evening meal And I always had one of the bigger ladies for superior paddling and pack-portaging(3-5 miles) to begin with-being a (pragmatic) skinny wimp in my teens! Considering that the captain is all powerful aboard a modern sub, cannot all the crew cameras be confiscated prior to the voyage; after all, it's his career on the line if I'm not mistaken? Cameras are verboten in most Federal buildings-especially after 9-11; and I've even told TV news cameramen to turn 'em off unless with written authorization by a building manager-I cannot believe a Federal sub is a big stretch from basic SOP. On my recent trip to DC: you still cannot photo the Pentagon; No camera-no problem- KISS..

[Betonov]

Oberon pretty much explained everything the way I would have (better actually)

But yes, you don't have to be a monk to show self restraint. Some common courtesy or basic chivalry. And not act like a teenager on board a superweapon.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Oberon pretty much explained everything the way I would have (better actually)

But yes, you don't have to be a monk to show self restraint. Some common courtesy or basic chivalry. And not act like a teenager on board a superweapon.

And that's the problem, some of them are teenagers.

Well, why am I the devils advocate here? Because I once served with 19 year olds in the army. No, we didn't rape or molest people (there actually were no women in our unit at that time so that's not really a surprise) but the armed forces are a mirror of society and we don't only have the well behaved guys and girls there but also the silly, the immature and the outright criminal ones. Now put these guys in a steel tube for months with very few women and you're asking for trouble. It's not the women's fault just as it's not the fault of candy to be sweet. Some soldiers are like little boys. Tell a boy he can't have the candy that is on display on a table for weeks and wait for what will happen. Big surprise one morning it will be gone. I know it's not fair or just or anything but it's unfortunately a fact that we can't discuss away as much as we would like to. Women on submarines will always "inspire" some of the males with weaker character to commit offenses like that.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Tell a boy he can't have the candy that is on display on a table for weeks and wait for what will happen. Big surprise one morning it will be gone. I know it's not fair or just or anything but it's unfortunately a fact that we can't discuss away as much as we would like to. Women on submarines will always "inspire" some of the males with weaker character to commit offenses like that.

Indeed, but the answer isn't to ban candy.
This sort of thing is going to happen, and I think the women who have gone into the submarine service are only no illusions that there's going to be trouble. Just as there was trouble when women were first allowed to serve on ships, or in the army...but we've moved on and progressed.
I'm not denying that there's going to be problems, but I'm also not suggesting that women should be barred from serving on submarines because of it.

[Buddahaid]

Real women can handle their own problems like men.


Whoever the guilty one(s) are they are too stupid to be in uniform. I mean really did they think they would get away with it? Maybe they wanted out.

[Jeff-Groves]

To explain this as 'Well' it's our genetic make up as Males' is the biggest lie I've seen in a while.
Useing that line of thought? We're geneticlly inclined to be raceist.
I don't buy into that BS. That line is an excuse and even when you type it you know your a liar!
I'm with Oberon on the thought that if you can't control yourself?
You are questionable on all levels.

I hope they hang the bastards in front of the Pentagon!
If some sick screw did that to my Wife?
I'd have no problem makeing sure they paid a price even God would cringe at.

[Tango589]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Real women can handle their own problems like men.

One of the best sequences I have seen in a long time!

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Whoever the guilty one(s) are they are too stupid to be in uniform. I mean really did they think they would get away with it? Maybe they wanted out

Unfortunately, a combination of raging hormones and stupidity is a recipe for disaster. Maybe they should be putting Bromide in the tea to cool the ardour. (Although this may not be fool-proof. As Spike Milligan said "The only way to stop a British soldier feeling randy is to load Bromide into 300lb shells and fire it at him from the waist down").