Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Dargo]

The Netherlands, together with Germany and Denmark, will buy and deliver around 100 Leopard 1 tanks to Ukraine. These are reconditioned type A5s, which are still in stock at the German defense industry. The three countries will also supply them with spare parts and ammunition. Defense minister Ollongren told the House of Representatives. "The war in Ukraine is in a crucial phase. Russia continues to mobilize and there are signs that Russia is preparing a new offensive. That is why supplying battle tanks is important," she said.

The top executive of arms manufacturer Rheinmetall, the maker of the tanks, informed that 20 to 25 tanks could probably be overhauled and delivered to Ukraine this year, and the rest only next year. Despite their age, the tanks are still "very suitable to be deployed on the battlefield", according to Ollongren. They are copies of the last version that came on the market in 1987. "They can still be very useful for Ukraine, and they are better than many Russian-made tanks that the Russians are fighting with."

[Jimbuna]

Iran’s Foreign Ministry denies plans to build factory for production of drones in Russia

Iran called the information about the possible construction of a factory for the production of drones on the territory of Russia fake news.

As reported by Censor.NET, the spokesman of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Iran, Nasser Kanani, informed the Mehr agency about this.

"Unfortunately, the countries that are the largest exporters of weapons and military equipment to one of the sides of the war (in Ukraine. - Ed.) want to mislead world public opinion by spreading fake news," he said.

According to the Foreign Ministry spokesman, Iran's approach is to push the parties to a political solution, as well as to encourage the international community to help shape a political solution to end the war.

It will be recalled that earlier The Wall Street Journal reported that Russia and Iran approved plans to build a factory for the production of drones. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3398318

[Jimbuna]

"Gazprom" is creating its own private military company, - intelligence. DOCUMENT

Gazprom Nafta is creating its own private military company. The relevant order was signed by the head of the government of the Russian Federation Mykhailo Mishustin.

This is reported by Censor.NET with reference to the press service of the Defense Intelligence.

"The document establishes that the founders of the organization will be PJSC Gazprom Nafta with a 70% stake in the authorized capital of the organization and the private security organization Staff Center with a 30% stake.

When creating the "organization", the government of the Russian Federation refers to the law "On the safety of objects of the fuel and energy complex", which states that the enterprises of the industry "may be given the right to establish a private security organization". The size of the share of such an enterprise in the charter capital of the newly created "organization" cannot be less than 50%," the message reads.

According to the Defense Intelligence of the Ministry of Defense, the "arms race" continues in the Russian Federation among political players who are actively creating private armies following the example of the "Wagner" PMC. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3398322

[Jimbuna]

Death is only prospect we can offer occupiers. We have to join forces and return territories, - Maliuk

The newly appointed head of the SSU, Vasyl Maliuk, is aware of the level of threats that faced our country during a full-scale war, and his own responsibility as the head of the special service.

He noted this during a speech in the Verkhovna Rada, Censor.NET informs with reference to the SSU press center.

"The first and most important thing is to carry out the president's order and change the approach to work. We are not just deterring the enemy, but acting in advance. We are building a new and modern model of state security - taking into account the experience of the war," Maliuk emphasized.

According to him, among the priority tasks are the cleaning of the Service, the fight against collaborators, henchmen of the enemy, and traitors of all levels. This requires a comprehensive approach from the special services - when each area of activity develops equally qualitatively and evenly.

The child also told what has already been done in these areas over the past six months. In particular, the reformatting of counter-intelligence and military counter-intelligence, extremely complex tasks performed by the fighters of the Special Operations Center "A", the results of the work of investigators and cyber specialists.

"Today I cannot reveal the details of all serious special operations in which our fighters are involved, but they are present in the hottest points of the war. In less than a year, 6 of them were awarded the title of "Hero of Ukraine". 4, unfortunately, posthumously... We have more than 500 state awards. Most among them are the "For Courage" and "Bohdan Khmelnytsky" orders. These people perform extremely difficult and extremely important tasks," the head of the SSU emphasized.

In addition, he spoke about his own combat experience: from 2014 in Donbas, and from the first day of the full-scale invasion - in Kyiv, Donetsk, Luhansk regions and in the south of the country.

"We showed the whole world what the Ukrainian character is. Now we have to join forces and return our territories! And as the Head of the SSU, I will do everything for Victory," Maliuk emphasized.

"Death is the only prospect we can offer the occupiers!" he added.

It will be reminded, on February 7, the Council appointed Malyuk as the head of the SSU. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3398339

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Dargo

The Netherlands, together with Germany and Denmark, will buy and deliver around 100 Leopard 1 tanks to Ukraine. These are reconditioned type A5s, which are still in stock at the German defense industry. The three countries will also supply them with spare parts and ammunition. Defense minister Ollongren told the House of Representatives. "The war in Ukraine is in a crucial phase. Russia continues to mobilize and there are signs that Russia is preparing a new offensive. That is why supplying battle tanks is important," she said.

The top executive of arms manufacturer Rheinmetall, the maker of the tanks, informed that 20 to 25 tanks could probably be overhauled and delivered to Ukraine this year, and the rest only next year. Despite their age, the tanks are still "very suitable to be deployed on the battlefield", according to Ollongren. They are copies of the last version that came on the market in 1987. "They can still be very useful for Ukraine, and they are better than many Russian-made tanks that the Russians are fighting with."

How much better than T-72 are these Leopard 1A5 ?

Does this mean that around summertime Ukraine will have MBT from USA, UK, EU And here I'm thinking Abrams, Challenges, Leopard 1 & 2 and some other ?

Markus

[Jimbuna]

German government approved supply of 178 "Leopard-1" tanks to Ukraine, - Der Spiegel

Germany’s Federal Security Council has approved the supply of 178 "Leopard-1" tanks from industrial stocks to Ukraine.

As Censor.NET reports, Spiegel writes about it.

The decision allows the export of Leopard-1 tanks from the Rheinmetall and Flensburger Fahrzeugbau Gesellschaft (FFG) groups.

According to the publication, the first tanks should be delivered to Ukraine in the summer, but most of them will not be before next year. The government will officially announce the decision on Tuesday evening.

Read more: Ukraine expects from Germany not only Leopard, but also spare parts for them, - Ministry of Defense

Last week, the German government granted a license to export "Leopard-1" tanks to Ukraine.

The Leopard-1 is the first main battle tank built for the German Army after World War II. It was produced from the mid-1960s to the mid-1980s. The 14 Leopard 2 tanks promised earlier by Berlin are much more modern. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3398361

Lithuania handed Ukraine dozens of L-70 anti-aircraft guns with ammunition

Lithuania handed over dozens of L-70 anti-aircraft guns with ammunition to Ukraine and conducted training for Ukrainian instructors on handling these weapons.

As Censor.NET informs, this was announced on the Facebook page of the Ministry of Defense of Lithuania.

"The last (in time - ed) Lithuanian military support for Ukraine is dozens of L-70 anti-aircraft vehicles with ammunition. For the last two weeks, Ukrainian instructors in Lithuania have been participating in training on how to operate these guns. They will train even more Ukrainian operators when they return to the country", the message says.

It is also noted that, in general, Lithuania plans to train about 1,600 Ukrainian soldiers this year. This will help Ukraine in the fight against Russian aggression.

"Lithuania will continue to support Ukraine by all possible means as long as necessary," the country's defense department notes. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3398348

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

How much better than T-72 are these Leopard 1A5 ?

Does this mean that around summertime Ukraine will have MBT from USA, UK, EU And here I'm thinking Abrams, Challenges, Leopard 1 & 2 and some other ?

Markus

The Leopard-1 dominated the T-55 and T-62. It was faster (forward and reverse), more agile, offered better optics and better situational awareness, it was designed to fit into the principle of German "Beweglichkeit" (mobility, agility), it outclassed the M-60, to, which was much slower. The German tank drove circles at will around the other tanks of its time.



The Sovjets build the T-72 to kill the Leopard-1. The western reaction to the T-72 was first shock, then developing the Leopard-2 and Abrams. The two latter stem from a shared joint venture between the US and Germany for a joint battle tank that later collapsed. Thats why both tanks are very comparable in protection and firepower. The American tank is more complicated to use and maintain, because the German built their tank for a conscript army where it was expected soldiers would have less time to learn and collect experience with maintaining and operating the tank. Thats why servicing the Leopard-2 is easier and is done faster than on the Abrams, its indeed easier toi handle. In earlier versions of both tanks, the German tanks also had better optics, and more of them, plus additional optics for the commander that the Abrams of that time did not have. The German tank cannon however proved to be superior to both the American and British designs, so both the later Challengers and Abrams all got equipped with the tank gun by Rheinmetall. The Abrams does some things slightly better than the Leopard-2, some things worse. The German tank usually is described as the best balanced general all-around design. Tank design is always a compromise between firepower, armour, and agility - balancing these three did not lead to best-of-class marks in any any of these for the Leopard-2, but to the best compromise between all three. That is what is meant when they say the Leopard-2 is the "best tank in the world". It means its the best compromise in balancing these three factors. The one thing where the Leopard-2 probably really leads them all, is ergonomics. The Leclerc may be even better in this regard, but it is said to be an electronic primadonna which is prone to system malfunctions and breakdowns. It seesm to be not as reliable as one would want to have it in war.

The Leopard-1 was the most agile tank of its time, and offered also probably the best optics and situational awareness of tanks of its time (compared to it, T-72 of that era were blind and deaf). Agility was seen as paramount, because ATGMs still played no big role, so agility was rated higher than armour. The Leopard-1 by today'S standard would be not more than a "medium" tank, it is indeed quite lightly armoured now, by today's standards.

Head on, tank-on-tank, the Leopard looses against the T-72. The T-72 has much more Boom! in its cannon. Worse, many of the T-72 in the Russian inventory are upgraded B3 versions, which does not make them great tanks but significantly better tanks than the original ones from 30, 40 years ago, some fo them also have replaced optics, and modern French thermals, new fire control systems. The basic design flaw however - the all-turrets-fly-high (tm) ammo storage - remain. I would not bet that a Leopard-1 can easily defeat the armour of these new T-72, however.

But tank-on-tank does not happen often in the ukraine war so far, most tanks got killed by ambushes in the urban areas, by flank shots with RPG/PZF style weapons, ATGMs, and - most importantly - at very short combat distances. The latter nullifies any tactical advantage of thick armour against kionetic ammunitoon like KE (German), SABOT (US). And I am quite certain the Leo-1 will not be used as tank hunter, like not the French AMX-10, which also has a small callibre cannon also and is lightly armoured. those armies who operated Leopard-1s until the end often used them for recce. The Ukranians will also use them as mobile artillery moving embedded in the infantry, I assume. They must avoid to confront T-72s directly. Leopard-1s and Leopard-2s are lightyears apart in firepower and protection level.

[mapuc]

Thank you Skybird.

Around 30 minutes after I had posted my comment I got the idea to search for info about these two tanks head to head.

So I made search T-72 Vs Leopard 1A5 and found this page

https://armedforces.eu/compare/tanks_Leopard_1_vs_T-72

When it comes to firepower and caliber T-72 win
When it comes to moveable(speed) Leopard win

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thank you Skybird.

Around 30 minutes after I had posted my comment I got the idea to search for info about these two tanks head to head.

So I made search T-72 Vs Leopard 1A5 and found this page

https://armedforces.eu/compare/tanks_Leopard_1_vs_T-72

When it comes to firepower and caliber T-72 win
When it comes to moveable(speed) Leopard win

Markus

A crew of 3 in the Lep vs the T-72 of 4 probably means an autoloading gun and therefore it can likely get shots off quicker.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

When it comes to firepower and caliber T-72 win
When it comes to moveable(speed) Leopard win

Markus

That is correct, but its not covering other factors that also play a role. Namely optics, may it be the gunner'S sights., may it be the commander's sights. Plus thermals. Old T-72 have no thermals, but - almost useless - IR lamps. Steel Beasts Pro does a nice job for illustration of how useful these were. Well, you reliable find the way to your own funeral with them, that was my impression. Renewed versions of the T-72 have no IR but thermal vision.

The best weapon of the Leopard-1 if running into T-72s, is reverse and get out of sight ASAP (it can drive reverse almost as fast as in forward; the T-72 crawls in reverse, I think around 5 km/h: pedestrian's speed). I read the Leopard-1 can outrun in reverse a T-72 that rolls in forward. The Leopard-1's armour was quite useless against the rounds of the T-72 back then, both kinetic and explosive ammunition - how much less useful will it be against modern T-72 rounds...? Best would be avoiding to meet T-72 alltogether.

[Skybird]

Reasonable remarks on both tanks.




Edit:
added.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by August

A crew of 3 in the Lep vs the T-72 of 4 probably means an autoloading gun and therefore it can likely get shots off quicker.

and assuming the Leopard 1A5 is the critter being sent to Ukraine. One of the things that makes it the ‘a5’ is the turret design which is able to mount the same 120 mm gun the Leopard 2 uses. Since it’s going to take some time to get those tanks ready to ship maybe they will upgrade those barrels too.

<edit> Thinking about it I thought the t72 has an auto loader too. The major draw back to the T72 is that all the ammo is on carousel inside the turret, which is notorious for cooking off when hit killing everyone inside and sending the turret into orbit. The Germans wised up and moved the Leo 1 ammo from its storage situated left of the driver to a storage bin in the back of the ‘a5’ turret. Offering the crew a better chance of surviving.

T-72, Leopard A5, they’re both pretty old tanks designed for a totally different type of war.

If they get anything earlier than the a5 they may as well just keep using those t-72s. What I think may make some waves are those Bradleys IFV and their optics coupled with its BGM-71 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) heavy anti-tank missile. Damn near twice the effective range of any tank currently on the field.

[mapuc]

Huge explosion in Kharkiv around 23 local time



Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Thinking about it I thought the t72 has an auto loader too.

I wonder what the extra crewman is for then? Assistant driver maybe?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Thinking about it I thought the t72 has an auto loader too.

"too"...?

Since when has the Leo-1 an auto-loader like the T-72? It has a crew of 4 for sure, like the Abrams. Commander, gunner, driver, loader.

I think the Italians or the Spanish once build one single prototype with an autoloader. if it is not a myth.

The mothballed Leopard-1 in Germany all seem to be 1A5s. 178 tanks is the possible maximum, whether these all translate into tanks refurbished and developed until - so the plan - summer next year, is somehign different. Its possible that the total number is reduced due to the need to cannibalise some tanks for the sake of reactivating others. Possible that in the end it will only be around 100 or so.

I doubt, seriously, they will invest the money and time for developing a solution to fit in a 120mm. I would almost rule that out. You would need to take the whole turret apart. It costs time, it needs to be bug-hunted. It needs much money. And factory capacity - by the Leopard producers in German currently cannot produce more than 1 Leopard-2 in two weeks. Go figure. No workers. No factory capacity. No ressources.

The Ukraine needs no perfect super-wonder-miracle solutions. It needs bigger numbers, and quick.

Thats 24 Leopard-2s per year. I was shocked when i heard that number, totally shocked. But its no rumour, its fact.

In Russia they have moved towards full war production. All their tank-capable factories produce tanks day in, day out, 24/7, mostly refurbishing mothballed ones currently, since that is faster.

Now we know why the Polish bought 900+ new MBTs - in S-Korea. The germans have no profitabel production capacities anymore. And as this Austrian colonel Reisner so very correctly remarked, this should be an alarm signal of the highest order to Europe. The Polish decision shows that they do not think there is a future for a European arms industry anymore. At the same time the Swedish find it incredibly difficult to sell their new Gripen-E - the plane that would be perfect for ukraine, since its can be maintained easily on the meadow, in the forest, it needs no hangars, is extremely maintenance- and repair-friendly , and needs only short runways. Exactly what the ukrainians need. But Sweden could not produce them in the needed time, its industry - Saab in this case - has shrunk to too low size. So the German, the French, the British.

Europe becoming a sovereign self-supplying military power? We are beyonds that. This idea now is nothing but a still birth, it will not happen, arms sales will more and more go to the US, and Asia. With a result that capacities in Europe and the knowhow will shrink further.

The Russians do what was to be expected, they cannot compete wiht tehcnology, so they make big nubmers count. Very big numbers. Its their doctrin since - since before WW2 already. If it takes - just a guess - 4 old tanks to make one working one, by their reserves they will soon have 2000-2500 additonal ones. Additional to those they already have, in the Ukraine, and in other regions fo their territory.


Catfish linked that 2 hour video from that conference in Auzsdtria. Try to use it with english subtitles, bot-translated. Its should serve as an eye opener for many. That man has done his homework, and he is mercilessly beyond any illusions. The colonel holds a lecture first, that already sets some exclamation marks, than there is a very good lecture by a former defence minister with solid pltical strategic insight, and then Q&A, again with Colonel Reisner answering a lot. He is brutally open. And he is right. Compared to him, what we hear from our politicians and media is simply blatant bullsh!t. If we continue like we do now, the Russians will not just win - they will triumph. Boiling the frog - will not work. The rus sians learn. They adapt. They do already now better than our media want to let us know. I am warning of this since weeks and weeks. Fightign and winning wars with extremely high own casualties - IS PART OF THEIR DAMN DOCTRINE. Always was.


Those new 150 km missiles will command them to re-adapt again. But this again comes at more losses to the Ukraine inflicited. And the Ukraine, different to Russia, cannot as easily compensate thes e losses anymore, even more so since it does not get the replacements in numbers as it needs them. Resiner and as well the Neue Zürcher Zeitung recebtly voiced: the Russians will create many little Verduns. They must not win any of them, they must no drive hueg affeenive and get victories. All that counts is that they make the Ukrainians spending their ammo, and make them bleeding. By this, Russia will win the war.