Breakthrough in nuclear fusion?

Skybird · 12-13-22, 12:13 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63950962

mapuc · 12-13-22, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63950962

I posted it yesterday in our Energy thread-Cause I thought it would fit there.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...&postcount=208

Nevertheless It is a major breakthrough I think we are not capable to comprehend the meaning of this discovery.

It will take a few decades before we have powerplants with these type of reactors and where we else may find use for it.

Markus

Ostfriese · 12-13-22, 01:54 PM

The amount of energy made available (about 1.1 MJ) is enough to heat roughly three litres of liquid water from 0°C to 100°C (without any melting/vaporizing), so this is quite a breakthrough. However, many more breakthroughs like this one will be needed before nuclear fusion will be available as an energy source, let alone as the solution for the energy/climate crisis.

@mapuc: why shouldn't we be capable to comprehend the meaning of this breakthrough (it's not a discovery, btw.)

Jimbuna · 12-13-22, 01:57 PM

A tiny step in the right direction but a step nonetheless.

mapuc · 12-13-22, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

@mapuc: why shouldn't we be capable to comprehend the meaning of this breakthrough (it's not a discovery, btw.)

For me it's a huge breakthrough and what we will see in the future I can't say well I can't comprehend what lay ahead of us.

Maybe it's easy for the rest to understand what we are dealing with here.
I guess it's only me who can't fathom it.

I could say it was the same when our scientist manage to split an atom/U23X and some decades later nuclear powerplant popped up here and there around the world.(Of course the first step after manage to split this atom, was to build nukes)

Markus

Ostfriese · 12-13-22, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

For me it's a huge breakthrough and what we will see in the future I can't say well I can't comprehend what lay ahead of us.

Maybe it's easy for the rest to understand what we are dealing with here.
I guess it's only me who can't fathom it.

It's basically a successful lab experiment, with the lab being absurdly expensive. As Jimbuna said a tiny step, but a step nevertheless. The energy that has been released is actually not usable, as it was released as fast neutrons, not heat or electricity.

Quote:

I could say it was the same when our scientist manage to split an atom/U23X and some decades later nuclear powerplant popped up here and there around the world.(Of course the first step after manage to split this atom, was to build nukes)

Markus

Well, we are way beyond this point already, using nuclear fusion in bombs is an old technology (thermonuclear weapons aka hydrogen bombs).

Skybird · 12-13-22, 02:48 PM

Its a breakthrough scientifically and technically, but it is no breakthrough for practical implementation and economic use. A proof of concept, so to speak.

However, the energy won is much smaller than reported, because the energy for the lead time of the lasers used inside that event chamber is not taken into account. A physicist explained it on TV over here. You fire lasers onto a wall of a material that turn it into radiation beams that get reflected back onto the frozen hydrogen. The starting energy for the lasers' lead time is not taken into account here for that comparison, only the net energy delivered by the radiation beams, and the energy won after the hydrogen was hit by them.

The whole concept is said to be too ineffcient for economical-industrial use. The basic principle must be translated into something more economical.

They got to this day after research done since the early 70s: roughly half a century. Which means we are still a VERY long time away from fusion energy powerplants that actually can be afforded. Decades. Almost nobody of us in this forum will live to see it.

mapuc · 12-13-22, 03:00 PM

Sit here and wonder...They(Skybird and Ostfriese) May very well be right what they have said(written)so why this huge amount of jungle drums sending this message to the world about the breakthrough and how huge it is.

Every homepage related to Science had an article about it today.

Markus

Skybird · 12-13-22, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Sit here and wonder...They(Skybird and Ostfriese) May very well be right what they have said(written)so why this huge amount of jungle drums sending this message to the world about the breakthrough and how huge it is.

Every homepage related to Science had an article about it today.

Markus

Because:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Its a breakthrough scientifically and technically, but it is no breakthrough for practical implementation and economic use. A proof of concept, so to speak.

Another step on a long journey. A small step, with plenty of more steps needed after that, still each single one of them is necessary, leading to the next. Its like climbing unregular stairs with some steps being steep and difficult, others flat and comfortable. This one was a steep, difficult step.

Rockstar · 12-13-22, 03:36 PM

Hell, give me a can of Van Camp’s and a cigarette lighter and I can produce clean energy. But like nuclear fusion the hardest part is a matter of harnessing that power.

Platapus · 12-13-22, 05:32 PM

It is a tiny step but as already posted a step in the right direction. Many many years of experimentation await before this can be harnessed economically for power.

I am very happy we have smart people working on this.

Skybird · 12-18-22, 09:26 AM

https://www-spektrum-de.translate.go..._x_tr_pto=wapp

putting it into perspective.

Ostfriese · 12-18-22, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www-spektrum-de.translate.go..._x_tr_pto=wapp

putting it into perspective.

In short for those who aren't good enough at German:

While at the core the experiment successfully released more energy than was put into it this is not true for the entire experiment. To put 2.05 MJ into it (getting out 3.15 MJ) the lasers require about 322 MJ of energy (which have been left out of the calculation alltogether).

Skybird · 12-18-22, 11:51 AM

So Google did not translate it? For me the link works?!

Ostfriese · 12-18-22, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

So Google did not translate it? For me the link works?!

Didn't work for me.
Probably caused by tha ad-blocker and/or the script-blocker.

12-13-22, 12:13 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,504 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Breakthrough in nuclear fusion? https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63950962 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-13-22, 01:57 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,240 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A tiny step in the right direction but a step nonetheless. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

12-13-22, 02:48 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,504 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Its a breakthrough scientifically and technically, but it is no breakthrough for practical implementation and economic use. A proof of concept, so to speak. However, the energy won is much smaller than reported, because the energy for the lead time of the lasers used inside that event chamber is not taken into account. A physicist explained it on TV over here. You fire lasers onto a wall of a material that turn it into radiation beams that get reflected back onto the frozen hydrogen. The starting energy for the lasers' lead time is not taken into account here for that comparison, only the net energy delivered by the radiation beams, and the energy won after the hydrogen was hit by them. The whole concept is said to be too ineffcient for economical-industrial use. The basic principle must be translated into something more economical. They got to this day after research done since the early 70s: roughly half a century. Which means we are still a VERY long time away from fusion energy powerplants that actually can be afforded. Decades. Almost nobody of us in this forum will live to see it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-13-22, 03:00 PM	#8
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,901 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Sit here and wonder...They(Skybird and Ostfriese) May very well be right what they have said(written)so why this huge amount of jungle drums sending this message to the world about the breakthrough and how huge it is. Every homepage related to Science had an article about it today. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

12-13-22, 03:36 PM	#10
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,836 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Hell, give me a can of Van Camp’s and a cigarette lighter and I can produce clean energy. But like nuclear fusion the hardest part is a matter of harnessing that power. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. Last edited by Rockstar; 12-13-22 at 04:50 PM.

12-13-22, 01:54 PM	#3
Ostfriese Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2004 Location: Northern Germany Posts: 1,174 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The amount of energy made available (about 1.1 MJ) is enough to heat roughly three litres of liquid water from 0°C to 100°C (without any melting/vaporizing), so this is quite a breakthrough. However, many more breakthroughs like this one will be needed before nuclear fusion will be available as an energy source, let alone as the solution for the energy/climate crisis. @mapuc: why shouldn't we be capable to comprehend the meaning of this breakthrough (it's not a discovery, btw.)

12-13-22, 05:32 PM	#11
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,954 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	It is a tiny step but as already posted a step in the right direction. Many many years of experimentation await before this can be harnessed economically for power. I am very happy we have smart people working on this. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

12-18-22, 09:26 AM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,504 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	https://www-spektrum-de.translate.go..._x_tr_pto=wapp putting it into perspective. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-18-22, 11:51 AM	#14
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,504 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	So Google did not translate it? For me the link works?! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.