US Politics Thread 2021-24

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Can't say how it is with Trump. If there in the entire world are more anti-Trump than Pro-Trump.

Markus

Better a worldwide famine, worldwide depression, hyperinflation or world war than a few mean tweets any day.

[u crank]

Monday’s unannounced Federal Bureau of Investigation search of Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home isn’t a moment for anyone to cheer. The Justice Department is unleashing political furies it can’t control and may not understand, and the risks for the department and the country are as great as they are for Mr. Trump.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fbi...hare_permalink

On the public evidence so far, a Jan. 6 indictment would be a legal stretch. Political responsibility isn’t the same as criminal liability. In our view, the evidence would have to show that Mr. Trump was criminally complicit in that day’s violence at the Capitol.

Given its inherently political nature, the burden of proof is especially high for indicting a former President, all the more so for an Administration of the opposition party. The evidence had better be overwhelming—not merely enough to convince a 12-person jury in the District of Columbia, but enough to convince a majority of the American public.

Anyone who thinks an indictment and trial of Mr. Trump would go smoothly is in for a rude surprise. Millions of his supporters will see this as vindication of his charges against the “deep state,” and who knows how they will respond. Has Mr. Garland considered all of this?

Worse in the long term is the precedent being set and the payback it is likely to inspire. Once the Rubicon of prosecuting a former President has been crossed—especially if the alleged offense and evidence are less than compelling—every future President will be a target. William Barr, Mr. Trump’s second AG, wisely resisted pressure to indict political actors without a very strong case. The next Republican AG will not be as scrupulous.

[mapuc]

So FBI was searching Mar-a-Lago for nuclear weapons papers

My comment isn't based on whether they found such type of paper, but what can he use these for ?

Sell some nukes to the black market or what ?

Markus

[Dowly]

Let's just wait until we have some official confirmation of what was searched. Trump has said he has no objections to the release of the warrant, so we should have it soon.

[Dargo]

Why on earth those leaders archive their own crimes...

FBI search warrant shows Trump under investigation for potential obstruction of justice, Espionage Act violations

[UglyMowgli]

The search warrant shows the FBI recovered 11 sets of classified documents from its search earlier this week, including some materials marked as "top secret/SCI" — one of the highest levels of classification. The warrant also shows the Department of Justice is investigating possible violations of Espionage Act and other crimes.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/fbi...-22/index.html

[August]

Most likely declassified stuff that didn't get it's security tags removed. A common thing among presidential papers.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by UglyMowgli

The search warrant shows the FBI recovered 11 sets of classified documents from its search earlier this week, including some materials marked as "top secret/SCI" — one of the highest levels of classification. The warrant also shows the Department of Justice is investigating possible violations of Espionage Act and other crimes.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/fbi...-22/index.html

The search warrant: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...75/warrant.pdf

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Originally Posted by August

Most likely declassified stuff that didn't get it's security tags removed. A common thing among presidential papers.

What is not a common thing among presidential papers is for a former president to take them home after leaving office, at least not since Nixon.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Kptlt. Neuerburg

What is not a common thing among presidential papers is for a former president to take them home after leaving office, And getting caught, at least not since Nixon.

Fixed

[August]

Originally Posted by Kptlt. Neuerburg

What is not a common thing among presidential papers is for a former president to take them home after leaving office, at least not since Nixon.

How do you know it's not common? Presidents build entire libraries from their presidential papers.

I predict this will be like the many other "bombshells" that is supposed to rid them of Trump, a complete failure.

[Skybird]

Filing system a la Trump





I would not be surprised one bit if they find he collected material by which he hoped he could blackmail institutions or office holders who could become dangerous in investigating him. He has still a long line of lawsuits filed against him. Or material that he hoped he could use to trade for personal security and safe asylum in some other country. Info on America's nuclear arsenal, its positions and exact plans, of course would be a prime deluxe currency for such trades, and what a criminal scumbag Trump is he has proven often enough.

[ET2SN]

OK, please understand that I can't go into details and I need to keep this stuff brief.

Any materials classified as TS/SCI and above are only happy when they are stored in a very secure safe in a very secure location. The trouble with these materials always happens when they need to be moved, destroyed, or used for their stated purpose. Anyone who also had a TS/SCI clearance would be able to tell you that screwing around with this stuff or moving/using it incorrectly equals twenty five years at Leavenworth. Forget lawyering up, this is one of the easiest sentences a federal judge can hand down.

One of the reasons that the penalties are so harsh is that it costs the US Gov't a HUGE amount of money to fix exposure and leaks of this information.

The reports that state the material is probably related to nuclear weps are probably wrong. Its possible but it really isn't accurate. The idea that the Prez can de-classify this stuff on a whim is also wrong.

Carry on.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Originally Posted by August

How do you know it's not common? Presidents build entire libraries from their presidential papers.

I predict this will be like the many other "bombshells" that is supposed to rid them of Trump, a complete failure.

It's a little thing called Presidential Records Act. Also would you care to point out where in my post that I claim to know that it was or was not common. Or is that just a knee-jerk reaction?

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. §§ 2201–2209,[1] is an Act of the United States Congress governing the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents created or received after January 20, 1981, and mandating the preservation of all presidential records. Enacted November 4, 1978,[2] the PRA changed the legal ownership of the President's official records from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents must manage their records. The PRA was amended in 2014, to include the prohibition of sending electronic records through non-official accounts unless an official account is copied on the transmission, or a copy is forwarded to an official account shortly after creation.


Provisions

Specifically, the Presidential Records Act:

• Defines and states public ownership of the records.
• Places the responsibility for the custody and management of incumbent presidential records with the President.
• Allows the incumbent president to dispose of records that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value, once he or she has obtained the views of the Archivist of the United States on the proposed disposal in writing. [5]
• Establishes a process for restriction and public access to these records. Specifically, the PRA allows for public access to presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years. The PRA also establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent administrations to obtain special access to records that remain closed to the public, following a 30‑day notice period to the former and current Presidents.
• Requires that Vice-Presidential records are to be treated in the same way as presidential records.
• Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office. [5]
• Establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent Administrations to obtain “special access” to records from NARA that remain closed to the public, following a privilege review period by the former and incumbent Presidents; the procedures governing such special access requests continue to be governed by the relevant provisions of E.O. 13489
• Establishes preservation requirements for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts: any individual creating Presidential records must not use non-official electronic messaging accounts unless that individual copies an official account as the message is created or forwards a complete copy of the record to an official messaging account. (A similar provision in the Federal Records Act applies to federal agencies.)
• Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records.
• Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records.

[mapuc]

I can't speak on his psychological behavior I can speak on whether he is a criminal or not.

And that is- Is not up to me to decide-IT'S up to a Jury and a Judge to decide if Trump is guilty in the charges FBI put forward.

Markus