[REL] The Little Ships of SH5 - Coaster Pack

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by gap

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember a single SHIII ship using an AO map.

Correct.

Originally Posted by gap

If memory serves, in SHIII you can have either an AO map or a normal map assigned to each material

Correct.

Originally Posted by gap

most if not all the ships (both stock and custom-made) have materials using the later map.

You mean a SPECULAR map. And the specular effect of SH3 ships is not correctly set, so the effect doesn't work in game, even if it's possible to make it work. But S3D doesn't enable to modifiy the proper parameter. But you can make it work by copy-paste of the fake propeller texture of the Stuka for example, this material will handle transparent pixels. Remember, this is the same problem as for semi-transparent textures, when we worked on your super realistic flags textures. BTW, haven't you released this mod yet ?

Originally Posted by gap

This is not an insurmountable problem, as the AO map could be blended with the diffuse map (most stock SH5 aircraft use this method)

Yes, this can be done with World of warships' models, since the AO map has exactly the same coordinates as the diffuse texture. So, you just have to blend diffuse with AO, and then apply transparency (transforming the black & white texture into alpha channel) of the specular mask.

Originally Posted by gap

but to be able to use this workaround every single unit would require its UV mapping redone, and the new textures would need to be bigger indeed.

Yes.

[GeneralDeath99]

How goes it? Taken a look at this thread and got to say, your models look mighty fine! Cant wait to see more in game!

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by GeneralDeath99

How goes it? Taken a look at this thread and got to say, your models look mighty fine! Cant wait to see more in game!

I had to take a break from modding in February because we have moved into new house and there was an endless list of things that needed to be done, leaving me with no time or energy for hobbies. I hope to return to this and other unfinished projects by the end of this month.

As for status, six new ships I was working on are all ready and imported into game, but there's still some work remaining in order for them to appear properly in campaign. More specifically:

- Two new ships are minesweepers, and they need minesweeping patrol spawns and nodes to be added to campaign in order to appear in game.
- Some coasters appear very rarely because most countries that use them do not have coastal traffic added to campaign.
- I'm still stuck on texture problems - I wanted ships to change textures and maybe even use navigation lights reflecting their status (neutral/belligerent) during the war, but way SH5 handles textures leads to constant problems with ships "borrowing" wrong texture from another vessel using the same model. There's also an unresolved bug that prevents minesweepers from using varying camouflages.

I hope to fix all the above and relase new ships sometime in August (provided real life doesn't throw a new wrench into my plans).

[U-190]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I had to take a break from modding in February because we have moved into new house and there was an endless list of things that needed to be done, leaving me with no time or energy for hobbies. I hope to return to this and other unfinished projects by the end of this month.

As for status, six new ships I was working on are all ready and imported into game, but there's still some work remaining in order for them to appear properly in campaign. More specifically:

- Two new ships are minesweepers, and they need minesweeping patrol spawns and nodes to be added to campaign in order to appear in game.
- Some coasters appear very rarely because most countries that use them do not have coastal traffic added to campaign.
- I'm still stuck on texture problems - I wanted ships to change textures and maybe even use navigation lights reflecting their status (neutral/belligerent) during the war, but way SH5 handles textures leads to constant problems with ships "borrowing" wrong texture from another vessel using the same model. There's also an unresolved bug that prevents minesweepers from using varying camouflages.

I hope to fix all the above and relase new ships sometime in August (provided real life doesn't throw a new wrench into my plans).

It's nice to hear that!

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

- I'm still stuck on texture problems - I wanted ships to change textures and maybe even use navigation lights reflecting their status (neutral/belligerent) during the war, but way SH5 handles textures leads to constant problems with ships "borrowing" wrong texture from another vessel using the same model.

Probably we already discussed that, but why don't you create illuminated windows/portholes as separate equipment? Indeed by adopting this method you should give up illumination effects on decks, superstructure, funnels etc. Moreover each vessel would need its own set of lights (you could keep each light separate so to use the same generic elements on more than one ship, but their placement would be a PITA). In any case, for small ships as your coasters, I think the above limits would be an acceptable price for bypassing the LOD texture problem.

Another possible compromise might be giving up LOD models. That would be a waste of computer resources but after all we already imported in game many dat units which have no support for LODs, and the game handles them decently.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

There's also an unresolved bug that prevents minesweepers from using varying camouflages.

Really? What is special about minesweeper's texture assignment?

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I hope to fix all the above and relase new ships sometime in August (provided real life doesn't throw a new wrench into my plans).

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

Probably we already discussed that, but why don't you create illuminated windows/portholes as separate equipment?

Last time I tried the light from these illuminated parts disappeared at LOD switch range, but I might recheck that as m memory is fuzzy on details.

Originally Posted by gap

Another possible compromise might be giving up LOD models.

The problem is not just LOD models although their scrapping would solve a lot of issues. What I fear is situation where single brightly colored neutral ship wanders into vicinity of huge Allied convoy and all ships in the convoy decide to use "neutral" skin (this happens if neutral ship is a clone of regular "grey" merchants or vice versa).

Originally Posted by gap

Really? What is special about minesweeper's texture assignment?

I made a thread on the subject some time ago - never managed to solve it:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=250744

This happens to any of my ships I try to make multiple AO maps for (diffuse textures work fine).

[GrenSo]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Last time I tried the light from these illuminated parts disappeared at LOD switch range, but I might recheck that as m memory is fuzzy on details.



The problem is not just LOD models although their scrapping would solve a lot of issues. What I fear is situation where single brightly colored neutral ship wanders into vicinity of huge Allied convoy and all ships in the convoy decide to use "neutral" skin (this happens if neutral ship is a clone of regular "grey" merchants or vice versa).



I made a thread on the subject some time ago - never managed to solve it:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=250744

This happens to any of my ships I try to make multiple AO maps for (diffuse textures work fine).

Sounds like the issue silentmichal and I can't solve with the ladder in CR room in silentmichal's new interior mod v1.2.3 and my version v2.0 of it (last picture): https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...&postcount=596

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Last time I tried the light from these illuminated parts disappeared at LOD switch range, but I might recheck that as m memory is fuzzy on details.

Do guns disappear at LOD distance? If they do, light equipment will disappear as well. If not, I don't see why they should behave in a different way than any other equipment. Depending on their size and on screen resolution they might become so small that the game won't render them, but this is not LOD-related.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

The problem is not just LOD models although their scrapping would solve a lot of issues. What I fear is situation where single brightly colored neutral ship wanders into vicinity of huge Allied convoy and all ships in the convoy decide to use "neutral" skin (this happens if neutral ship is a clone of regular "grey" merchants or vice versa).

Yes, that's a known game limit. SH5 loads only one "copy" of each 3D model at any given time. If different versions of the same unit are rendered at the same time, all of them will display the same texture. I can't say whether the same applies to equipment though.

Confusing an allied or axis vessel for a neutral one would be somehow acceptable. As we have seen in my thread on wartime ship colors, vessels of many neutral countries sailed within allied convoys while still retaining peacetime colors or even neutrality markings (and they were considered valid targets by the Germans). Likewise, many German blockade-runners disguised themselves as neutral vessels, so again some confusion might even be realistic.
On the other hand, confusing a neutral vessel for an allied one might lead to some very bad outcomes, as destroying one of them will result in a renown penalty and even to CTDs. The one solution for avoiding that, is having two "physical" copies of the very same ships if we plan to use them both on the allied/axis and on the neutral side.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I made a thread on the subject some time ago - never managed to solve it:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=250744

This happens to any of my ships I try to make multiple AO maps for (diffuse textures work fine).

Weird. Does that apply only to minesweepers? Have you tried if switching unit type solves the problem?

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

Do guns disappear at LOD distance? If they do, light equipment will disappear as well. If not, I don't see why they should behave in a different way than any other equipment. Depending on their size and on screen resolution they might become so small that the game won't render them, but this is not LOD-related.

I'll dig out my old test mod for this and write more then, as I said I'm not sure of details now.

EDIT: Ok I found it. Video below shows the issue:



One of my coasters, with Mk.9L Shining Depth Charges strapped to its bridge, using emissive material modeled after control room lightbulbs (your idea ). Light disappears even before LOD switch. It's hard to see in this video but crew figures remain visible even after lights do not.

Originally Posted by gap

Weird. Does that apply only to minesweepers? Have you tried if switching unit type solves the problem?

Any ship I tried to use more than one AO map on. On the other side I know it does work properly on Flower corvette (which has several AO skins in TWoS). So either it's a mistake I repeated in all my ships or maybe something resulting from using GR2 Editor (which would also explain why multi-AO stock ships are unaffected).