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Old 03-01-23, 04:36 PM   #1
ET2SN
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Icon12 (Nuclear) war, what is it good for?

In recent weeks I've been watching reviews for Nuclear War Simulator, they fall in line with the following Vid:



The reviews tend to fall into categories like:

"Its a Sim, it isn't a GAME"

"Its horrific and makes me feel sad"

"The only way to win is to not play"

Well, duh. The SIM is being panned for some legit reasons but give me a minute to think outside the box.

Let's say you want to create some scenarios, missions, and a campaign. We could be talking about modern Naval games or maybe DCS (or any modern warfare game). You want your campaign and missions to feel realistic, something better than a bunch of people show up in a field and start slugging it out.
How do you find that kind of realism?

Are you starting to see some derivative uses for NWS?

What military targets are being struck and in what order? Which cities and ports are being struck? Are they Counter Force or Counter Value targets?
A strategic target is a strategic target is a strategic target. In the end, it doesn't matter if you attack them with a thermonuclear warhead, conventional cruise missile, or an iron bomb or tank shell.

Load one of the "full tilt" scenarios. Where do the land battles happen? Maybe its a good area to send your strike fighter packages? Where are the front lines, where are the supply nodes? Which bases are the bad guys using to launch their fighters and bombers?
In terms of Naval combat, where do the fleets duke it out? Where are the boomers, where are the carriers?

So, try thinking about NWS as a data base for your missions with a "real time" capability.
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Old 03-01-23, 05:37 PM   #2
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https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
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Old 03-01-23, 07:42 PM   #3
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Right, think about what I wrote one more time.

When I click that link I get a map of Omaha. Its a big deal considering where I live but Omaha is not a Counter Force target. Offutt AFB is, and Offutt is just south of Omaha. Likewise, for me, Whiteman AFB to the south east is also a big deal along with the missile fields around Minot AFB in North Dakota.

There is also no context it terms of timing. What would get hit before Omaha and why?

Instead of targeting some random city, how about showing me where the mobile ICBMs patrol near Irkutsk?


NWS is like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Someone had to come up with those targets and missions. Based on the Vids, they know a heck of a lot more about targets and tactics than we do.

Why not use that database for our campaigns and missions?
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Old 03-02-23, 10:27 AM   #4
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I have DEFCON, First Strike Classic, ICBM, and Nuclear War Simulator, all worth owning, but each with their own point of view.

If you want a game, get ICBM. If you want a data tool to see, "What would happen if?", get Nuclear War Simulator. ICBM is fun and interesting, Nuclear War Simulator, while having some game elements, is more of a hardcore, scenario modeling analysis tool. Both are worth having, but with different focus.

In Nuclear War Simulator, it's entirely up to you to develop your attack plan based on available intel, and then execute the madness.

The intel for creating an attack plan could be better, as ET2SN pointed out, but the title is still being developed, so I reckon that will get smoothed out as development continues.

But where it really shines is analysis of the aftermath. When you examine the results, you get to see just how awful a nuclear exchange would be.

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Old 03-02-23, 01:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET2SN View Post
Its a big deal considering where I live but Omaha is not a Counter Force target. Offutt AFB is,

When I was stationed at Offutt, there was some comfort that we had an estimated 3 SS-18's targeting the base.


At least we would not suffer.
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Old 03-02-23, 02:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubaas View Post
I have DEFCON, First Strike Classic, ICBM, and Nuclear War Simulator, all worth owning, but each with their own point of view.

If you want a game, get ICBM. If you want a data tool to see, "What would happen if?", get Nuclear War Simulator. ICBM is fun and interesting, Nuclear War Simulator, while having some game elements, is more of a hardcore, scenario modeling analysis tool. Both are worth having, but with different focus.

In Nuclear War Simulator, it's entirely up to you to develop your attack plan based on available intel, and then execute the madness.

The intel for creating an attack plan could be better, as ET2SN pointed out, but the title is still being developed, so I reckon that will get smoothed out as development continues.

But where it really shines is analysis of the aftermath. When you examine the results, you get to see just how awful a nuclear exchange would be.

When seeing the word Defcon I remembered that I also had a similar thread about simulating a nuclear war

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=252123

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Old 03-02-23, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
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When I was stationed at Offutt, there was some comfort that we had an estimated 3 SS-18's targeting the base.


At least we would not suffer.
Did you ever check out the military park in Omaha near the river? A friend of mine from the USS Bremerton and I wear invited out to see if we could fix the periscope on the training sub. What happened was that someone was able to park a bunch of jets and other hardware in the park but then they left it all alone for years and years.
They wanted to somehow convert the training sub into a public display when most of it had rusted out to the point of being dangerous.
Still, they had a nice collection of Navy jets from the 1950's and 1960's.

That wound up being an exercise where big plans and no money collided with harsh reality. The scope barrel and all of its internal parts had welded themselves together a long, long time ago.
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Old 03-02-23, 05:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET2SN View Post
Right, think about what I wrote one more time.

When I click that link I get a map of Omaha. Its a big deal considering where I live but Omaha is not a Counter Force target. Offutt AFB is, and Offutt is just south of Omaha. Likewise, for me, Whiteman AFB to the south east is also a big deal along with the missile fields around Minot AFB in North Dakota.

There is also no context it terms of timing. What would get hit before Omaha and why?

Instead of targeting some random city, how about showing me where the mobile ICBMs patrol near Irkutsk?

Its a tool and demonstration of how what size of warheads affect what piece of chunk on the ground depending on warhead, ground- and air-burst, plus estimated loss and fallout calculations. You can choose any point on Earth, and adjust the kilotons and megatons to your liking. The website is being maintained since around one decade now, its I think some kind of academical project. You can also grab and hold the detonation diagram and move it over the map.

The starting point may be Omaha for you, for me it is Köln, when I open the app. Thats strange since I do not live in Köln, but Münster, but anyhow...
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Old 03-03-23, 05:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET2SN View Post
Did you ever check out the military park in Omaha near the river?

When I was there they had the USS Hazard (AM-240) and the USS Marlin (SST-2). But I moved out of Nebraska in 94.



I don't know what happened to the park during the big flood though.
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Old 03-03-23, 09:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Platapus View Post
the USS Marlin (SST-2).
That be the one.
It was based out of Groton and was mostly used during WWII, as I recall.
The basic idea was to give future OOD's some experience with surfacing and diving, I think it was limited to only 2 or 3 days at sea?
At some point the whole thing was painted black, maybe to make it look more modern?

Either way, by 2011 it was basically scrap. You could walk back to the engine room and see sunlight coming through the hull.

I made it up to the bridge (slightly dangerous due to the rot) and topside (really dangerous and you had to step VERY carefully).
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Old 03-13-23, 03:01 PM   #11
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That's too bad, but it takes a lot of money to maintain such things.
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