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Old 06-14-22, 02:15 PM   #106
propbeanie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
I say we ought to revive the NMTF, so i repost(ed) Halsey's original post:

The aim is the same, any modder, new or experienced is invited, we really do need unified guides for S3D, and other modding areas.

I'm not the most experienced, and will be happy to turn over operations to the experienced folks.

Group link: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/group.php?groupid=149
Not to sound mean about anything, nor to discourage any modding, but referring to your link above and goldmastersims proposition therein, let it be known now that you may not call anything that you do "FotRSU". FotRSU is an active mod, with an active team, and the mod is still in active development. You may mod all you want to on the FotRSU mod for your own enjoyment and use, and so long as any "distribution" is done via PM, that is fine. That is your private business. Either do that, or submit any mods you build / combine to the FotRSU team for consideration as "official" add-in mods. Note also that several of the mods that are mentioned as potential parts for the endeavor are already in the AddInModzPak, which is an officially sanctioned package. Proper permissions for the several parts mentioned would be required of those mods' authors. Also, generally speaking, it is rather rude to say that any mod has "shortcomings", whether it'd be "FotRSU" or "Bob's Your Uncle". You insinuate incompetence on the part of the mod team. Whether you change devices or settings or whatever, that is a "perspective" - what you like versus what someone else likes. Again though, like I said, not to sound mean, but it is what it is.
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Last edited by propbeanie; 06-14-22 at 02:31 PM. Reason: The usual typos... sigh
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Old 06-14-22, 02:22 PM   #107
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^What he said.

Not that has ever Stopped others from doing as they Wish and Releasing stuff under dubious names and claims.
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Old 06-14-22, 02:29 PM   #108
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Exactly. That is another option. Call it "Bob's Your Uncle" (if that name is not already in use) or whatever, but not "FotRSU Shortcomings Fixes". You cannot have it sound like it is a mod from the FotRSU Mod Team.
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Old 06-15-22, 01:57 AM   #109
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I'm addressing propbeanie's statement.



FotRSU team and its predecessor's team have done great a deal of work to made their mod a reality. The tweaks to my mod wouldn't be possible without their work.


Xerxes holds no responsibility for what I'm doing with that mod.



I can only credit myself for successfully merging non-sanctioned mods into FotRSU 1.7p3.



I am aware I took many mods from others. If I choose to release my mod, I will gather consent from the original mod makers when possible and if they're still active.



I merged them in because I find they make the game look and sound better.



If you believe I've insinuated incompetence, I'm sorry for that. That wasn't my intent. The post wasn't written in the best way for all parties.


My perspective wants some more challenge than base FotRS and a more TMO-like set of aesthetics.



As I go, I'm discovering how modding the SH games works. I gave S3D a look recently.



Having seen how things are handled in other communities, it can get really bad. I hope things stay great here.
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Old 06-15-22, 08:26 AM   #110
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Things will stay great here, especially with discussion. I understand wanting more "TMO" in FotRSU, which did originate with TMO v1.7 as its "base" years ago in AOTD_MadMax's FOTRS. There is nothing stopping you from modding, and I would expect you to keep modding (once bitten, you cannot stop), no matter what anyone says.

In the FotRSU Mod Team's opinion, there are AI add-in mods that "up the ante" for the AI response, and there are other add-ins more tuned for FotRSU in that AddInModzPak, that should be used before using any of the 'regular' version of the mods. The main reason being the ID conflicts one would encounter using the original add-ins. You have to be especially careful with the Torpedo files, as well as particles and materials files with the add-ins. While making one aspect of the game look better, you might end up disabling another aspect. We looked into "jimimadrid’s shiny torpedoes" mod, and there are several conflicts in there in FotRSU, but the plan is to eventually clear those, and then ask his permission to use his mod in the base FotRSU - that is a couple of versions away at this time. I do not recall the issues off the top of my head, but it is the way FotRSU is built... vickers03's Sea Life, so long as you use the latest version, should do fine. We have not tried any of yours or xerxes more recent mods yet, since we are attempting to push the stubborn next version out the door here... We will not be changing the periscopes or binoculars to a TMO-style, since CapnScurvy spent so much time on the mod's current views and zooms, and for the team, they are preferable. I have found multiple links to his REL threads, but they are broken. Onkel Neal is looking into that again.

As for the "insinuated incompetence", it was not taken as that, but others might. As we have encountered previously with other modders, the choice of words used was "strong", but there are not that many terms for saying "I want to change this aspect of the mod to better suit me" in one or two words. No harm no foul. Just be careful of how and what you release. As I said, you are more than welcome to submit any mod package to the FotRSU Mod Team for 'inspection' for conformity, and if something is amiss with IDs or similar, we can patch that and then submit it back to you for your approval. It could then carry "goldmastersims' FTT FotRSU Mod" (Flavored To Taste, ala Ducimus and others), aka: the "gFTTF" mod. Or leave the FotRSU out of the title, so there is no confusion that it came from you, without FotRSU Mod Team "inspection" or approval.
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Old 06-15-22, 12:15 PM   #111
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You have no IDEA how much CRAP The Grey Wolves took for trying to do the same thing for GWX long ago!
Any mention of not approving add-ons as 'Officially Approved by the Grey Wolves' made us the most Evil SOB's who ever walked the Earth!


In private we did have a Seal designed.
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Old 06-15-22, 12:17 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves View Post
You have no IDEA how much CRAP The Grey Wolves took for trying to do the same thing for GWX long ago!
Any mention of not approving add-ons as 'Officially Approved by the Grey Wolves' made us the most Evil SOB's who ever walked the Earth!


In private we did have a Seal designed.
AMEN
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Old 06-15-22, 12:26 PM   #113
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Wish I had saved a copy of that Seal!
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Old 06-15-22, 12:52 PM   #114
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Do you mean one of these?:

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Old 06-17-22, 04:32 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
Not to sound mean about anything, nor to discourage any modding, but referring to your link above and goldmastersims proposition therein, let it be known now that you may not call anything that you do "FotRSU". FotRSU is an active mod, with an active team, and the mod is still in active development. You may mod all you want to on the FotRSU mod for your own enjoyment and use, and so long as any "distribution" is done via PM, that is fine. That is your private business. Either do that, or submit any mods you build / combine to the FotRSU team for consideration as "official" add-in mods. Note also that several of the mods that are mentioned as potential parts for the endeavor are already in the AddInModzPak, which is an officially sanctioned package. Proper permissions for the several parts mentioned would be required of those mods' authors. Also, generally speaking, it is rather rude to say that any mod has "shortcomings", whether it'd be "FotRSU" or "Bob's Your Uncle". You insinuate incompetence on the part of the mod team. Whether you change devices or settings or whatever, that is a "perspective" - what you like versus what someone else likes. Again though, like I said, not to sound mean, but it is what it is.
I also concure with the above statement, the statement about FotRSU "shortcomings" is in poor taste indeed. This mod in still in production, and will evolve over time, just because you do not like something, there is no need to label it as thus, one person's bad opinion, is another persons good opinion...

I did receive an invite to this group, but due to the labels being thrown about, to other mods, by people who by their their own words "borrow" other mods, i will be declining this invite with immediate effect.
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Old 06-18-22, 12:16 AM   #116
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For what it's worth from the founder of The Grey Wolves Project / GWX and out of respect for the crazy-awesome crew that built it....

Do you remember the scene in Das Boot near the beginning of the movie, where the Old man, his Chief Engineer, and the war correspondent made their way inside the pen to their U-boat?

Do you remember when a moment later they are standing on the deck with the crew, and the looks they gave each other? Those looks said, "This is our boat. There may be others that look like it, but this one is ours, and WE are its crew." In the movie, U-96 belonged to them.

Now imagine if the captain of U-791052 a few pens across, strolled over on that day and said, "Refitting your boat seems to be taking too long. I think I'll be the captain now." Well, even if that captain was the nicest guy on earth, he runs the risk of becoming fish food.

I wouldn't DREAM of stomping onto the deck of the U.S.S. FotRS with that intention in mind. I will say that the day I was invited into the control room by propbeanie and s7rikeback was an awesome day. I may never know what valve transfers what. Heck, Jeff Groves and I used to joke about inadvertently crashdiving in the harbor independently during our old noob days. I may only have the steam to cheerlead when different challenges are being worked and/or when different elements are completed, but I respect the boat they built. I shall not operate the toilet on the U.S.S. FotRS because I haven't received any training on said device.

We all like different amounts of salt and pepper. Some of us like Dunklegrau 50. Others enjoy chartreuse yellow and fuchsia.

In a lot of ways, as a prospective new modder the world is your oyster. However, ya GOTTA respect the old heads and the work they did. Thousands of very real hours spent thrashing rigs and keyboards over years of neck-aching work was spent building this block of ships or those million plus lines of campaign code. Even the thought of Joe Random swooping over at the end of that process to snatch it all up while saying, "This is mine now" makes you want to catch fire.... and in reality it happened a LOT.

We learned lessons by stepping on toes and taking our lumps... and we taught lessons too. Neither was any fun at all. As Chief Jimbuna says to Jeff above... I'll say it too... AMEN.

I stand firmly with propbeanie and s7rikeback. The name Fall of the Rising Sun / FotRS is taken. It is theirs and I also KNOW by personal observation that work on it has never stopped and they hold the keys to the conning tower hatch. They decide when that hatch is open and they decide when that hatch is closed.

That concept doesn't keep anyone from making mods. However, it does protect the name they chose for the body of work they produced and the work they were entrusted with. Heck, as I recall it, GWX releases were about a year apart. ("It will be ready when it is ready." Got said about a bajillion times in between.)

It has been a minute or two ago now, but Neal Stevens once gave me a sweet and sour pill and it went like this:

'Think about it Kap. It used to be that everyone wanted to make mods for Silent Hunter III, and now they all want to make mods for GWX.' (If I remember correctly, I was on his back porch right after Hurricane Ike when he said that to me.) He meant it as a compliment, but it was also medicine. He also later defended our right to keep our name when a truly nasty someone thought to take it away sometime later. Today, I still have the keys to the The Grey Wolves Project / GWX hatch.

I don't want to pour cold water down any modder's neck. SH3 and SH4 no longer enjoy the ranks of experts they once could call on, but the miles and miles of trails blazed must be respected by those who look to sail in those waters now.

In an effort to offer a bit of encouragement, can tell you this: A guy here once told me, "If you don't like it, build your own damn mod!"

.... and that was the birthday of The Grey Wolves Project / GWX.

Almost anything is possible if you are determined enough. Libraries of knowledge and boxes of tools were created on the old journeys if you spend the time to find and understand them.... but the name "Fall of the Rising Sun" is taken and still in use.
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Old 06-19-22, 04:18 AM   #117
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What does this value exactly do Propulsion (propeller) influence factor in the dive planes ?
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Old 06-19-22, 07:28 PM   #118
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Are you referring to the SubName.sim file Niume, under the "unit_submarine" nodes, the front_ and rear_diveplane with the "drag=0.02" and "prop_fact=0.0" or maybe 0.05? I am not certain, but if I remember correctly, the "drag" was how much using the diveplanes being used slowed your depth change and speed, and the prop_fact is for how much the speed of the prop spin (hence the speed of the boat) affected dive and rise times. The rear planes on a some subs are right there with the rudder behind the props, and would utilize the prop wash more "efficiently" to help change depth. This is from memory of an ETR3(SS) note on one of his sub mods... brain matter here deemed unreliable at data recovery... - notice though that the numbers are using hundredths... but of what? for what? a multiplier? dunno
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Old 06-21-22, 05:16 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
I say we ought to revive the NMTF, so i'll repost Halsey's original post:





The aim is the same, any modder, new or experienced is invited, we really do need unified guides for S3D, and other modding areas.



I'm not the most experienced, and will be happy to turn over operations to the experienced folks.


Group link: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/group.php?groupid=149
You can create your own mod, but if it does not pass through the approval of the FOTRSU team, you have no right to boast of the same acronym. you can call it "Serse mod", specifying that the base you worked on is the merit of the FOTRSU team
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Old 06-24-22, 07:28 AM   #120
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How does one make periscopes harder to be detected by escorts?
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