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Old 07-18-13, 03:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ducimus View Post
I heard of it, but never looked into it. Just found this 38 minute shooting review if you have time to kill.
I am familiar with Hickok45 vids. His entire channel is worth watching if your are a shooting enthusiast.
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Old 07-18-13, 03:35 PM   #32
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I find it funny that he drives a Honda Element it does not seem like the kind of vehicle he would drive.

I like how he just shoots and talks about the different weapons he does not try to preach one idea or another very often and when he does it is his personal experience.for example he is a big fan of Glocks but he also explains that he has a lot of experience with different pistols and that one just fits him well.That shows that he is honest and not just trying to look cool.

And to a large extent with pistols what works great for one shooter does not for another.My friend brought over a Beretta Px4 Storm in 9x19mm on the 4th and it was the first time I had fired a Storm and it is a nice gun and interesting because it has a rotating barrel and it was pretty accurate but I just did not like how it felt in my hands.
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Old 07-18-13, 03:41 PM   #33
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And to a large extent with pistols what works great for one shooter does not for another. My friend brought over a Beretta Px4 Storm in 9x19mm on the 4th and it was the first time I had fired a Storm and it is a nice gun and interesting because it has a rotating barrel and it was pretty accurate but I just did not like how it felt in my hands.
Too true. I like some handguns better then others. On the subject of the PX4 storm, my wife tried all sorts of handguns before deciding she liked the PX4 storm compact the best. She also hates glocks. The lack of safety and the "safe action trigger" are not her list of favorites.
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Old 07-18-13, 08:18 PM   #34
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All things considered the safety features that Glocks use are just as reliable as any other method they just do not have a trigger disabling safety as in if pull fully pull the trigger the action is not stopped.But from a drop or any other type discharge outside of a trigger pull a Glock is very safe.Some people just do not like the idea of a firearm with a flip safety.The thing I do not like about Glocks is that they are striker guns and I just like seeing that hammer call me old school.

Now the flip side of that coin is that soldiers,cops and I'm sure some civilians have drawn their handgun in a real situation and forgotten to flip the safety or accidentally flipped in to on when they did not want to which can happen with the ergonomics of some handguns.

One thing I did really like about the Storm (the one I shot was the full size model) is it does have nice back straps especially for something factory I think they come with three different ones.Another pistol I fired which I not before was an FN FNX 9 I really like that pistol It weighs fully loaded as much as a Storm does dry which I like personally. I was putting down some quick double taps with that FN after messing around with it a bit defiantly a good pistol if you like your hammers of course so is the Storm.

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Old 07-18-13, 10:06 PM   #35
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I always wanted a Taurus Judge.

I got bigger stuff for home defense, but I want a toy.

Fires .410 shotshell, and .45.

A born home defense weapon in a pinch.

I just wonder how much kick it would have.
My friend has one. It's a hardcore gun.

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My connection is crap today so I have not seen the clip posted by Ducimus but I bet that they show the judge being used just as I described.
Still probably have you beat at worst connection.

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Of course it has a huge draw back you either have .410 or .45ACP and .410 buck would be pretty nasty at very close range but after maybe ten feet coming form such a short barrel the pellets would spread badly making it ineffective.
The .45 has some degree of accuracy...but a .410 fired from a barrel that short is like extreme close range.

It makes a good snake gun.

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I find your analysis accurate. It is billed for anti carjacking, and close work, not practical in most situations.

Though it causes alot of attention at the range.

I love killing paper.
Let's hope you never have to get to that point where you have to do more than paper.


----

I know what I want to shoot...I want to get me a FN Five-Seven or a Beretta 92. I really like those pistols...I just want to fire them so I can see for myself how they handle.

Really the only pistol I've fired that's bigger than a .22 is the .40 Compact that I shot. I really liked it. Now that I think about it, a Walther P99 in .40 would be pretty nice.

Just more things added to my wishlist.
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Old 07-19-13, 01:14 AM   #36
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The .45 has some degree of accuracy...but a .410 fired from a barrel that short is like extreme close range.
Depending on the weapon it is being fired from yes.If you watched that video you'd know that with that judge he had to hold very low to hit the aim point and Hickock45 is a very experienced shooter shooting at a location he is very familiar with.

In my opinion .40 caliber is over rated people diss 9x19mm all the time but you shot a heavier grain bullet and it is pretty effective the target/cheapo round are 115 grain you really need 124,134 or 147 grain rounds.NATO uses 124 grain ball FMJ.There are also some high end 115 grain rounds out there.The thing with the 115s is they have a pretty high velocity and they can pass through very fast and not do much damage of course they might pass through and keep going at a slower velocity of course.

In my opinion you either go 9x19mm or you step it up to .45ACP I would rather have 12+1 rounds of .45 than 13+1 or .40 cal any day.That is just how I feel though but you can do some research and find that elite units have variations what they prefer for a side arm though they tend to use either 9x19mm or .45 9x19mm is so common your enemy is likely to also use it in some of their weapons.But the preference for some units with 9x19mm stems form the concept of violence of action engagement and putting rounds into the threat until it is fully neutralized and down dead as dead.The SAS guys that raided the Iranian embassy in 1980 they used MP-5s and had Browning High-Powers as sides arms (both 9x19mm) some of the terrorists had over 100 bullet wounds in their bodies of course SAS counter terror troopers are the best combat shooters you can find they only have peers not anyone superior.

I do not know enough about the FN 5.7mm round but I do know that the market version is much weaker than the military version also the ammo is very expensive only a few firearm in the world use 5.7mm.

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Old 07-19-13, 01:50 AM   #37
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Depending on the weapon it is being fired from yes.If you watched that video you'd know that with that judge he had to hold very low to hit the aim point and Hickock45 is a very experienced shooter shooting at a location he is very familiar with.
I've never seen any of his videos. I'll check them out tomorrow.

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In my opinion .40 caliber is over rated people diss 9x19mm all the time but you shot a heavier grain bullet and it is pretty effective the target/cheapo round are 115 grain you really need 124,134 or 147 grain rounds.NATO uses 124 grain ball FMJ.There are also some high end 115 grain rounds out there.The thing with the 115s is they have a pretty high velocity and they can pass through very fast and not do much damage of course they might pass through and keep going at a slower velocity of course.
I'm not doubting the 9x19's effectiveness or reliability or anything...I really like the caliber...but it's just the "shortage" (if you can call it that) is bad on the 9x19 as well as the .223

I'd rather get something different. Something a bit heavier...but not overkill...and not too expensive.

.40 seems just about right. I liked how it handled when I fired that .40 Compact and it's not an overrated caliber by any means IMO.

An overrated caliber would be the .50 Action Express in the Desert Eagle

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In my opinion you either go 9x19mm or you step it up to .45ACP I would rather have 12+1 rounds of .45 than 13+1 or .40 cal any day.That is just how I feel though but you can do some research and find that elite units have variations what they prefer for a side arm though they tend to use either 9x19mm or .45 9x19mm is so common your enemy is likely to also use it in some of their weapons.But the preference for some units with 9x19mm stems form the concept of violence of action engagement and putting rounds into the threat until it is fully neutralized and down dead as dead.The SAS guys that raided the Iranian embassy in 1980 they used MP-5s and had Browning High-Powers as sides arms (both 9x19mm) some of the terrorists had over 100 bullet wounds in their bodies of course SAS counter terror troopers are the best combat shooters you can find they only have peers not anyone superior.
There's some good points....both 9x19 and .45 are good calibers. I think the elite units use 9x19 so they don't have to worry about shooting through a body. A 9mm will bounce around more than a .45 after impact. IIRC, Hollow Points and other expanding ammo is illegal for militaries to use ever since one of the Conventions. Don't remember which one....but it doesn't stop Police from using HP ammo. I've used HP ammo for hunting. That certainly gets the job done and makes a nice hole. I had Jacketed Hollow Points and Soft Points in my rifle the year I killed my big 6 Point (Should've been an 8...but got cheated out of two). I had about 5 JHP and what was left of the box of SP. I ended up needing more ammo than I should have since the first shot hit the spine in the back (it was almost too dark to see) and it tried to keep on going. I couldn't hit it at range (~120 yards) so I took the JHP and ran up there.

That was the end of that. JHP will make a nice hole. If militaries were allowed to use it, there would be some ugly holes for the doc to patch up. But since they can't use HP ammo, they use smaller calibers.

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I do not know enough about the FN 5.7mm round but I do know that the market version is much weaker than the military version also the ammo is very expensive only a few firearm in the world use 5.7mm.
I like the 5.7 round. The casing itself can fit perfectly inside a 7.62x39 casing. It's a small bullet...but you have 20+1. While the civilian ammo is, indeed, weaker...it's still a good caliber. I imagine that it's easy to handle and good shooting.

And anything FN makes is pretty cool anyway.
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Old 07-19-13, 02:47 PM   #38
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Figured i'd show off the other lady in my life, she's not just a safe queen, and she's allergic to polymer. All steel, wood, and leather, she enjoys grease a lot more then CLP, 100% pure tung oil and 100% pure neatsfoot oil.

Anyway, so, here's my Deer rifle, pictured with a 5 round magazine.
- Sling is a government issue, national match 1907 sling. ( NSN 1005-00-714-1245 if your curious).
- You can't see it, but i just replaced the spring guide with a sadlak national match spring guide. (details here. )
- Scope is a Nikon Prostaff BDC 3x9x50. (gift from my dad for my birthday)
- Scope mount is a Picatinny Rail low Scope Mount made by Basset Machine company in texas. (Website here ) ( a birthday gift from my wife, who also happened to name my rifle Tallulah)


- The grease i've been using is actually Mobile 1 synthetic grease. It looks pink in the tube, goes to transparent on the rifle, but for some reason the flash brought out the pink coloration, so you can really tell where i've lubed her up. And yeah, that 50MM lens barely clears the handguard. There's enough space to easily remove or place the lens cap. I got REALLY lucky when i ordered the scope rings.


Open chamber with 5 round mag seated in. I've actually loaded this rifle like a bolt action rifle, inserting one round at a time into the magazine. The 5 round mag is flush fitting, and doesn't remove easily. You have to reach in from the top and push down while working the magazine release. Kind of a pain in the ass.




For a point of comparison here's a 20 round mag that the rifle was designed to use next to the 5 rounder. Also, versatility is what this rifle is about in my opinion, because with a 20 round mag, all i need is a bipod, and she's gone from hunting rifle to Designated Marksman Rifle.


More on versatilty, remove the scope, and she becomes what she really is, the last wood and steel battle rifle. I recently just changed the flash supressor to one with a bayonet lug, and it chimes like a tuning fork.


So why'd I put a bayonet on there? Because i could? Because it's cool? Also because I wanted her in the original design configuration for historical reasons. I'm sure historically correct is something everyone here can appreciate, although I do realize the 1907 leather sling isn't historically correct. The problem with the GI issue canvas web sling is it's noisy, and the adjustment clasp scratch's the stock. So i just use the leather one. Its quiet, and doesn't scratch.


One reason i got the basset machine scope mount is because it is detachable, hold zero within 1/2 moa, and doesn't permanently alter the rifle. Here's a picture of how it locks in if your curious. Apologies for the flash.
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Old 07-19-13, 02:55 PM   #39
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That is a sweet looking rifle Duc!
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Old 07-19-13, 02:57 PM   #40
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She's sexy Ducimus.

I'd penetrate paper with her any day!

Dat juicy scope, mmm the curves....Freaking sexy!
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Old 07-19-13, 03:02 PM   #41
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Paper's fun, but frozen turkey's was even better. I have an inlaw that owns a piece of land right next to BLM land, up against a mountain. He has his own range set up out there, and we had some frozen turkey's that had been in our freezer for two years. We tried and failed repeatily to give them away. Nobody wanted them. So they were relegated to, I guess what you could call redneck ballistic gelatine. Literally blew the gizzards out of em, and they were frozen solid.
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Old 07-19-13, 03:06 PM   #42
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She's a sweet looking companion and far prettier than the MP5 I used to have a relationship with.
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Old 07-19-13, 04:45 PM   #43
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Figured i'd show off the other lady in my life, she's not just a safe queen, and she's allergic to polymer. All steel, wood, and leather, she enjoys grease a lot more then CLP, 100% pure tung oil and 100% pure neatsfoot oil.
That's a damned beautiful rifle.

Wow....

Gimme a second and I'll show you mine.

EDIT: Got to take pictures...Don't have time. I'll get them up later.
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Old 07-19-13, 09:42 PM   #44
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I've never seen any of his videos. I'll check them out tomorrow.

I'm not doubting the 9x19's effectiveness or reliability or anything...I really like the caliber...but it's just the "shortage" (if you can call it that) is bad on the 9x19 as well as the .223

I'd rather get something different. Something a bit heavier...but not overkill...and not too expensive.

.40 seems just about right. I liked how it handled when I fired that .40 Compact and it's not an overrated caliber by any means IMO.


That was the end of that. JHP will make a nice hole. If militaries were allowed to use it, there would be some ugly holes for the doc to patch up. But since they can't use HP ammo, they use smaller calibers.

And anything FN makes is pretty cool anyway.
.40 cal is just about as in demand as 9x19mm is in fact if a person does not have 9x19mm they have a .40 and it is not really a controlled shortage it is supply and demand if you make ammo for the open market it does you no good to have a surplus because then the value goes down.By having your ammo in demand you make much more money.Renumber firearms manufactures and ammunition manufactures are for profit businesses.I think many people forget this important fact.

There is limit on caliber size under the Hauge Convention you just are not allowed to use certain types of ammunition.FMJ are used because they cause the cleanest wounds which in theory causes less suffering.The Hauge Convention has been around in one shape or form since the end of the 19th century and for over 70 years of it existence nations used full size rifle cartridges and still do in machine guns,sniper rifles and other specialist roles.

Most armed forces use smaller caliber ammunition for two reasons:
1.the ammo weighs much less and this allows a combatant to carry a much larger amount of ammunition under the same weight. If the cartridge is large a full size rifle round the typical solider will only have about 180 rounds in a smaller cartridge they can carry 240 rounds for the same cost in weight as the larger caliber.
2.It is far easier to train a person to have good marksmanship with a smaller caliber round than it is a heavier round additionally people of smaller frame can much more easily use a smaller caliber rifle while a larger may reduce their combat effectiveness.

All in all I think that the choice to use smaller caliber round was a wise one.Even in Vietnam where there where teething troubles with the M16 largely due to poor training and poor maintenance practices the advantage of 5.56mm was clear it encumbered troops less and they carry a large amount of ammunition that would have been very encumbering if it had been a larger caliber.You have also recall that in addition your ammo you also might be carrying a belt or two of ammunition for the machine gun in Vietnam that was the M60 7.62x51mm.

These days a platoon might only have two GPMG M240 and each squad will have at least one M249 which greatly increases the suppression ability of a squad so only the members of the weapons squad where the GMPG will be have to carry the heavier ammo and in the other squads usually one extra man carrier belts for M249(5.56mm) they use canvas bags told hold them so they really do not add that much weight.Both the M240 and the M249(sometimes known as MK46) are very highly rated by combat troops in yearly reviews.

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Old 07-19-13, 10:12 PM   #45
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.40 cal is just about as in demand as 9x19mm is in fact if a person does not have 9x19mm they have a .40 and it is not really a controlled shortage it is supply and demand if you make ammo for the open market it does you no good to have a surplus because then the value goes down.By having your ammo in demand you make much more money.Renumber firearms manufactures and ammunition manufactures are for profit businesses.I think many people forget this important fact.
I know that there really isn't a shortage of this ammo...people are just buying it all up.

In fact, I found a store that sells boxes of Steel Case .223 for 6$ and Brass Casing 5.56 for 9$.

However, I don't own a pistol nor shoot pistols very much so I really don't know much about them. I can handle them correctly but that's about it. I'm not an expert in that department.

Quote:
There is limit on caliber size under the Hauge Convention you just are not allowed to use certain types of ammunition.FMJ are used because they cause the cleanest wounds which in theory causes less suffering.The Hauge Convention has been around in one shape or form since the end of the 19th century and for over 70 years of it existence nations used full size rifle cartridges and still do in machine guns,sniper rifles and other specialist roles.
I remember it was one of those conventions.

Quote:
Most armed forces use smaller caliber ammunition for two reasons:
1.the ammo weighs much less and this allows a combatant to carry a much larger amount of ammunition under the same weight. If the cartridge is large a full size rifle round the typical solider will only have about 180 rounds in a smaller cartridge they can carry 240 rounds for the same cost in weight as the larger caliber.
2.It is far easier to train a person to have good marksmanship with a smaller caliber round than it is a heavier round additionally people of smaller frame can much more easily use a smaller caliber rifle while a larger may reduce their combat effectiveness.

All in all I think that the choice to use smaller caliber round was a wise one.Even in Vietnam where there where teething troubles with the M16 largely due to poor training and poor maintenance practices the advantage of 5.56mm was clear it encumbered troops less and they carry a large amount of ammunition that would have been very encumbering if it had been a larger caliber.You have also recall that in addition your ammo you also might be carrying a belt or two of ammunition for the machine gun in Vietnam that was the M60 7.62x51mm.
Those are two other good reasons to use a smaller caliber...but that's for like an entire regular army. I was meaning Counterterrorism, SOF, Law Enforcement, etc.

I've heard over and over that they use Hollow Points and smaller calibers so they don't have to worry about shooting through bodies in a hostage situation or in a densely populated area.

Quote:
These days a platoon might only have two GPMG M240 and each squad will have at least one M249 which greatly increases the suppression ability of a squad so only the members of the weapons squad where the GMPG will be have to carry the heavier ammo and in the other squads usually one extra man carrier belts for M249(5.56mm) they use canvas bags told hold them so they really do not add that much weight.Both the M240 and the M249(sometimes known as MK46) are very highly rated by combat troops in yearly reviews.
I've been trained on both the 240 and 249. I talked quite a bit with the gunner who was helping me.

He and I both agreed that they were awesome weapons.
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