GER politics thread

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Skybird You are one of many friends I have online and who haven't a FB-account. (Very understandable)
If you had, you would be shocked what people share of fake/doubtful information when it comes to this Corona virus.

These people are more eager to believe these fake/doubtful information than what they hear from the government or from the national health authorities.

This is why they demonstrate-they do not believe the government/health authorities. Markus

Yes i know you asked Skybird but Marcus, please.
It is not only that they do not believe in the government, they only believe in their world view, and the (a)social media support every filter bubble you choose. Be it the moon consisting of green cheese, conspiracy theories of all kind and colour, bedeviling certain groups of people, "we want the Kaiser back" to "corona is a hoax" to the Reichsbuerger or Querdenker 'movement' (an expression of the Nazi party to describe themselves b.t.w.), it is all there.
And the (a)social networks serve them all.

The thing is that these online meeting points can express the most queer opinions, and no one can stop it or will criticize it - it is virtually uncontrollable and the second someone criticizes it there will be slogans like "they take away our freedom", "free speech is being censored", "dictators" and all that. Which also is why it is so difficult to forbid demonstrations.
I have an FB account if almost never posting there, but the percentage of full scale 24/7 idiots there is breathtaking. I avoid any political FB pages like the plague.

In this case, the far right just took advantage of a lot of queers and pretended they would all be on their side (called instrumentalisation), and the police reacting of course seemed to prove that right. To idiots, that is. Sorry for clinical cases of idiots, i did not mean to insult you.

[mapuc]

^ You put it better than I did-thank you.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Skybird

You are one of many friends I have online and who haven't a FB-account.
(Very understandable)
If you had, you would be shocked what people share of fake/doubtful information when it comes to this Corona virus.

Shocking, me? Difficult. I live since too long in this zoo now. And on two or three occasions I saw the horror with my own eyes at range zero. Its the reason why on some certainpoltical issues I am so determined and uncompromised (and bitter). Forgiveness only is an option, sometimes, when it is safe fact that the bad thing will not repeat or contiunue. Becasue if the bad thing is allowed to continue, forgivness is failure - and sin.

than what they hear from the government or from the national health authorities.

I warn of believing governments and health authorities, too. Its just that I also warn of beploieveign esoterics, extzrmeists, Nazis, agitators, conspiration theoreticists, paranoids, schizophrenics, nutheads and patienst locked away in high security cells in ejmntla asylums.

Its about finding the very few reasonable minds out there, and liostenign and then assessing what the yhave to say. They are few, its difficult to find such people.

For that travel, just one advice: know and stay aware of how little we actually know for sure, and how tmepting it is for our ego to take what we beleive to know for actual knowledge.

This is why they demonstrate-they do not believe the government/health authorities.

I think its as bit mroe complex. Ther eis a wild mix of people untijng against Corona measurtments. Nazis, extremists, nationapists - beside simple minds, esoterics, vegan activists, astrology-believers. The latter all think they must fight against the forces of darkness and beat evil, then they will have peace and light again and the old life and the old world as they knew it will come back. And this war between light and darkness they partially project on the govenrment and the Corona measurements. Its an attempt to cope with a situation that the yhave not mentally adapted to. A failed and now persisting defence mechanism that does not shuttle them into the new mindset, but leaves them beign stuck, and the longer they are stuck, the more difficult it is for them to free themselves and the more stubborn, renitent and even dangerous they become. We all needed time toi adapt to the new situation, but some of us do it quicker and some do it slower - and apparently some do it never. Thats when the defence mechanism turns into a problem.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

the Queerdenker network is associated witrh Reichsdeutsche and AfD [...].

I saw what you did there

Yes, you are of course and unfortunately right. 'They' should have seen that coming, and ordered to dissolve it earlier. They got away just so.
I hope this was a wake-up call, though i have no good idea how to act without the AfD crying for equal rights for free-thinking Neonazis and overturning the government.

I think the not so fanatic corona doubters will see what is true at some point, see they are being instrumentalised, and react accordingly. Or let's better say i hope.

edit: ^ just read the above of Sky - good analysis. Again, unfortunately.

[Skybird]

The hope I can share as long as its free and costs nothing, but I refuse to invest into it.

[Skybird]

http://translate.google.com/translat..._12386150.html


Not too long ago a high ranking US delegation visited Denmark and wanted to press the Danes into attempting to block the finishing of the construction. It was reported that all it got behind closed doors was a cracking rebuff, the Americans left in obvious anger.



Its being reported that the EU prepares retaliation measurement sin case the US turn their threats into relaity. On a recent video confernce ont he issue, 25 of 27 states positioned themselves behind the pipeline, only Poland and Baltic states being against it.

[Catfish]

You know how it is when you threaten someone.. some of those being threatened can get stubborn like a bulldog in the process.
But maybe Germany pulls back and returrns to its lapdog role, who knows

[mapuc]

In a Danish article it says that the integration into the labor market of the refugees and migrants who came to Germany during the refugee crisis in 2015 is going better than expected.
The newspaper had also a link to the German iab homepage.

I guess My German friends has a different view on this

https://www.iab.de/de/informationsse...en/kb0420.aspx

Markus

[Skybird]

The interests to paint it well or bad are different depenbding on whom you ask, the government certainly wants to gloss it over and book it as a success story. It isn't, not in my perception and thinking, but they say I am a man with a cold heart. Well, I am also a man with some reason and logic. Sentimentality is not my thing, I admit. Things cost, and the bills must be paid. Nothing is free.

Most migrants coming int he past five yearsdo not work, and certain ethnic groups especially from Africa by hiuge majority reject to work. Working attoutde leavesa alot to be desired in many from certain Africna regions. Demanmding them to comply with German labor values is labeld as discm,rination and lacking respect for foreign culture. Some of thes epeople are agfgressive in rejectign work, many are just too laid-back and think they have a rigfht tio demand not needding to try hard. Imn other words, in amny cases we tlak of laziness.



Many have hopelessly exaggerated ideas about Germany.



A minority of all migrants who came, actually do work. Some indeed try well to get integrated, founded restaurants (well, and then came Corona...), a few even made very good education courses, school exams and such. But these are not the rule, but the exception form the rules. I can tolerate these. But they are so few.

Most of those who work, work in low wages jobs, jobs that are uncertain and fall victim first to any economic crisis. Their wages do not allow them to form oensions worth the name, the yare the future wellfare recoievers even if working right now. Then these successful employee stories suddenly will turn into stories of depending net wellfare receivers, with bad social prognosis for themselves, even worse for their offsprings.

In many crime categories, foreigners arriving in the past 5 years, are massively overrepresented compared to native German offenders. One would assume that if they were equal in their cm rinal enegery to nativ egemrnas, their representation in the cirme statistcs woudl rouzghly equal their share of the totla population. When they are in fact overrepresented by many factors, then that is a porblem and ther eis a problem with our justice system and our laws and our courts and our policies. A group that forms not even 4% of the totla population, should not score 40 % of all registerered crimes in a year in a given category, as a genral number exmaple. If 4% of the population co,mmit 40% of the cirmes ojmf a certain kind, then that is not goopd, right? But say that loud, and the Germans themselves will be the ones kicking and bashing you from all sides.

So, a few of these people indeed are well motivated to integrate and use the chance offered to them. But I do not believe and cannot see it supported by numbers and sources not coming from the highly biased government (that wanst to sell it as a big success story). All in all the negative by far outweighs the positive, I am convinced. Muslim extremism is spreading, and in reply to the anti-Germany policy of the govenrment and growing Islamization the tolerance for right wing extremism ands political violence is growing even in the heart of the middle class population now. This is the erosion of inner social integrity of society that has been warned of since many years, it is now happening, and it wins in pace. Run policies against the people's views too long, censor objections on media too long, ignore the will of a aignificant part of the population, and what you get is radiclaization, sicne the peope then learn that those in power do what they want and cannot made stopping what they do by words and votes alone. And so the tolerance for violance and radicalization grows.



A few months ago, ealrier this summer, a represenative poll in German showd that two thirds of tquizzed German ssaid they do no longer say out liud what they realyl think, quiting fears over getting socially sanctioned and stigmatoued and confrotned with the thoguht police if they show they do not comply with the officially wnated thinking. Two thirds!


Which gets replied then by even more moral "imperialism" and appealing, and even more political correctness, and all that thougth policing. Putin did not bring this fire to germany. He onyl needs to spill occasional quantums of oil into it to help widening the destabilization process he intends.

Over one quarter of german households now have foreign roots. The raise in birth rates in germany and net growth of population after years of declining populaiton levels, is due to the many migrants. Their ethnic groups and subcultures grow, and fast so. With many of these ethnic and cultural groups I have big issues. With some not. At school were there are many migrants, things often head for rock bottom in no time. That is true not just for so called hotspot schools.



We are all equal and we are all the same, they keep on hammering into our heads, But that is wrong. There is mentality, there is culture, there is value systems, there is religion, there is habit. And that are things you cannot redefine on the fly just by handing out a form and hammer an inked stamp with a federal state eagle emblem onto it, that is simply Blödsinn. People are different. And many of these foreigners that came, pose big problems to us, are net receivers of wellfare, their offsprings will be that too, and they help to foster growing disrespect for the state and its organs, police, laws, courts, social systems. The abuse is immense, the readiness for violence as well, and much of the clan crime we now have was imported to Germany needlessly, in the past five years, but also already before by rejecting to sort the foul apples out. Practically the overwhelming majority of all asylum seekers whose requests for asulm got refused, are still here, since years and years! Even the criminal scumbags amognst them, in cases repeated offenders of many, many crimes, do not get forced out! We just do not do it.

The state refuses to serve one of its constitutional duties: to protect the Germna people form dangers from abroad, and to secure the borders. Its not negligence, its intention.

And people like me? Maybe we do not all throw molotow cocktails into asyum shelters and do not do such nasty stuff, but the anger turns intio rage and people getr more and more angry, at minimum we actively withhold ourselves from this state, we reject to support this state and we refuse to raise a single finger in its defence anymore. Usually most of us doing like this as bitterly reject nazism or right-winged ideology, even if we get demonised as Nazis, man haters or whatever. You must not be a Nazi to find this political treason and the demonization of "Germanness" and German cultural tradition in general disgusting.

There is a growing disconnection of the political class from reality, paired with ever growing incompetence that gets hidden behind ever growing big mouth sizes. They are blatant idiots, but they shine brighter than the stars - or so they think.

Add to this the mess with the EU, and especially the degeneration of the money system. Practically all and evertyhign that the Euro was once founded on and was sold as, has been given up by now. Not as if the dolalr is any better, kits counterfeit money like the Euro and any other debt-foudned paper money. Even the German economy cannot finance all these many burdens forever, and this year we have started to see the limits, those of us at least who are not drunk of oursleves and want to see things as they are, not as we would like to see them being taken care of by miracles, wonders, and fairy queens.

And then the economic confrontations with Trump, and China.

I often said that America will continue to pay the price for Trump long after he has left again. But Germany wil also continue to pay the price for the Merkel era long after she has gone. She ahs suffocated Germany and threw it into a coma, and I wonder whether Germany will ever awaken form that again. She has maximed our dependencies and vulnerabilities, for nothing but illusions.She did not build reserves, but helped to waste them, and to form claims for new ones on mere illusions.

There will be a bitter awakening. And one can only hope that history will not repeat itself, will not repeat one of its darkest chapters. Thanks to Merkelidiots and the EU, political extremism and radical ideas at the left and right outer limit once again win ground and terrain, and become en vogue again. When the economic despair then reaches a critical mass of households, all ingredients are present for another perfect storm once again. The signs are on the wall already, and btw, not just in Germany. And the ruling elites want to fight them by having more of what has created the radicalization in the first.

Cannot tell the time table, I dont know. Maybe ten years. Maybe ten months, maybe twenty years. But all possibilities on the timetable always end with the same scenario, as I see it: BOOOOM.

[Skybird]

My most favourite cartoonist and caricaturist Uli Stein has died age 73.

Thanks for the many, many tears in my eyes, Sir, the soar throat, the pains in my side and the short breath...

His cartoons were best!

[mapuc]

@ Skybird.
Thank you for your in-depth explanation on the status of German society today. In many of these things you mentioned I said to myself it sound like he describe Sweden or Denmark.

Markus

[skidman]

^You would be surprised how small the fraction of German population is that would subscribe to his point of view. And you would scratch your head, if you found out about the blatant lies he is telling.

[Skybird]

Neither truth nor logic nor causality are issues of heads counted, or numerical majorities. Germans got narcotized by Merkel since 15 years now, they are used to it, they want it, they cannot imagine to live in a world without it. The radicalization at the rims of the poltical spectrum, are consequence and reaction to that, amongst other causes, but Merkelcoma is part of the explanation.

[Skybird]

It seems the scneario that Merkel wnats to get rid of Nord Stzream 2, wins in credibility. The German foreing minister today mentioned for the first time the threat to cancel it, if Russia does not "cooperate".

But I must ask: for what gain? Germany tries to appear as string her,e while in fact it has seated itself in a very weka position. It has decided to eject from nuclear energy. It ejects from coal. Now it wanst to eject from gas as well? And all these energy carriers beign given up simultaneously and with the unsolved issue of not being able to store renewable energy on sunny days and windy days, and by far not prioducing enough reneweable at night, and without the major energy carriers? With all the power importat we altreadsy must buy right now, and all that grid instability we are casuing across all of continental?

Fear the Germans when they start to discover their moral conscience. We get energry fuels form many places and countries, many of them are morally qustionable and dubious. Must we give these up now, too?

The gas import in Europe are to rise anyway, and if not via Nord Stream 2, then via the other already existing pipelines.

This is what happens when dilletanttees and moral apostale start to play politics. They bring themselves into an undefendable position, then start a fight without having muscle and independence, and finally whistle helpless in the forest and talk about their moral obligation. Germany wnated to bring all Europe behind it when it triggered the mass mgration into Europe. It failed. The Brits tried to rally Europoe behidn them in support over thei con fronting of the Russian afetr the Skirpal case. They failed. Now Germany thinks it once again will rally Europoe behgidn it when it does give up Nord Stream 2? Have they now completely lost their marbles in Berlin?

Damn dilettantees. They should have never brought Nawalny to Germany - and THEN start an arugment with Russia. Itz makes onyl sense when they wnatred to use the scandal as an alibi for their already made dec ision to once again fall back friomn foreiogn demands and give up Nord Stream 2. Its the only scenario that makes sense to explain their sequence of actions.

If they now even fall on their knees and start buying US fracking gas in higher quantities than already now, I will drive to Berlin and rent a balloon from which I can more comfortably vomit onto the Regierungsviertel, spraying them all with what I feel for them deep, deep inside of me.


Proverbally "everybody" builds new nuclear powerplantsa of the nwest generations. But Germany has given up its engineering competence there, opted out and elft the whole match to others. We even DEPEND on foreign nuclear power imports, we made ourselves vulnerable for - nothing!

[mapuc]

Can they do this...I mean Germany has shut down different power plants and so on..replaced this with green energy...but is this enough to fulfill the needs in the society ?

Markus