SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Sub/Naval + Other Games > Sub/Naval & General Games Discussion
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-23, 05:46 PM   #1
mapuc
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denmark
Posts: 17,709
Downloads: 37
Uploads: 0


Default The ethical in game making

Previous week my Cousin visit me for a few day. One evening we came to discuss games. I said I have problem playing with games where you have to kill someone in the game.

Then my Cousin said-Would there ever be a game where you are in charge of like 100 slaves and where you live in South USA 1840 and have to make money from your cotton field

I said no..Well personally I hope not..who would make such a simulation game which it would be

Furthermore I also said

And I don't think there are simulation game where a player is a commander over a concentration camp like 1942-43 Germany.

That's why I'm 99.99 % sure you will not find those type of games.

It's all a about ethical

Markus
__________________

My little lovely female cat
mapuc is online   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-23, 06:28 PM   #2
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Thats how I think about wqhacking squirrels.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-23, 07:51 PM   #3
Oubaas
中国水兵
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 286
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 0
Default

I'm retired military. I play a lot of war games and I'm not bothered, it's just a game.

But what worries me about those games is that kids might get the idea that war is noble or adventurous or neat and clean, or anything like that.

Case in point. A couple of days ago I was playing an armor simulator. The commander of an AFV was turned out, manning the machine gun. I crept up to the edge of the forest and hit him dead center in the chest with a HEAT round from the cannon on my tank, then put a couple more into the vehicle, eliminating it from being a threat to anyone or anything.

Then I drove down into the village where they were set up, after taking out two more AFVs. As I drove past the dead AFV whose commander caught the HEAT round in the chest, the vehicle still looked nice, and the commander looked like he had drifted off into peaceful slumber.

That's not what war really looks like. If we're going to have games about war, let's depict things like it really looks. That way young people can make an informed decision about whether they really want to join the military or not.

Better they see things that they can't unsee in a game, rather than in real life. Maybe we'd have fewer wars if there weren't so many willing participants. When you figure out that it's insanity when your boots are already on the ground, it's a little late in the course of events to wake up to the fact that they lied to you your entire life.

Not much that you can do about it at that point, other than learn to live with all those things that you can't unsee.

Oubaas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-23, 07:45 AM   #4
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,338
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

^ Sales managers will hate you for your suggestions.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-23, 08:22 AM   #5
Threadfin
Ace of the Deep
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,062
Downloads: 38
Uploads: 0
Default

Morality's for real life. Injecting it in to your gaming decisions is fine, but I have no such concerns at all.


Perfect example is the hunting games I'm in to at the moment. I no longer have any wish to shoot animals in real life (I was once a hunter), but I have no such reservations about virtual game.


Playing a bad guy doesn't make you one. It's just a game.
__________________
What? Behind the rabbit?
Threadfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-23, 08:47 AM   #6
Oubaas
中国水兵
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 286
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird View Post
^ Sales managers will hate you for your suggestions.
Military recruiters, too!

When playing my military games and sims, I'm far more concerned with technical and historical accuracy than I am with ethical questions. But I do think that if they're going to depict war in a game or sim, they should depict it as it truly is, not all neat and tidy.

Oubaas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-23, 05:01 PM   #7
Platapus
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,852
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 0


Default

For that matter, is there anything ethical about unrestricted submarine warfare? But we seem to like that here.



Ethics and rules of war only work when both sides abide by them and when was the last time (first time?) that has ever happened.
__________________
abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.
Platapus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-23, 06:51 PM   #8
mapuc
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denmark
Posts: 17,709
Downloads: 37
Uploads: 0


Default

Thank you for your input. It wasn't so much on the player, but the game developer.

Do they have an ethical limit-saying we will never produce a game where you player has to hurt a slave or games where players has to do ugly thing in a concentration camp.

I'm pretty sure they have such a limit.

As Mel Brooks once said in an interview on Swedish tv.

I like to make fun of historical things, however there are things which you do not make fun of-Like what happened to the Jews during WWII.

Markus
__________________

My little lovely female cat
mapuc is online   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-23, 10:18 PM   #9
Oubaas
中国水兵
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 286
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc View Post
Thank you for your input. It wasn't so much on the player, but the game developer.

Do they have an ethical limit-saying we will never produce a game where you player has to hurt a slave or games where players has to do ugly thing in a concentration camp.

I'm pretty sure they have such a limit.

As Mel Brooks once said in an interview on Swedish tv.

I like to make fun of historical things, however there are things which you do not make fun of-Like what happened to the Jews during WWII.

Markus
Well, I hope that they have the decency to refrain from creating anything atrocious. But these days, I am not confident.

I think major studios would stay away from such subjects. But I've seen some offerings from independent developers on Steam that stray over the line, in my opinion.

But I'm old, and spent my life in a different world than the one that we have today. I was raised with strict ideas of right and wrong, and with notions such as that we should treat others as we would wish to be treated.

So here's hoping that we never see games of the sort that you cited as examples. But I'm not optimistic.

Oubaas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.