SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Silent Hunter 3 - 4 - 5 > SH5 Mods Workshop
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-22, 06:33 AM   #106
kapuhy
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Poland
Posts: 873
Downloads: 72
Uploads: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
Why don't you bake your AO textures in Mod Tools (i.e. the free version of Autodesk Softimage)?
Never knew such a thing existed Thanks for heads up, will check it out.
kapuhy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-22, 06:45 AM   #107
gap
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CJ8937
Posts: 8,214
Downloads: 793
Uploads: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapuhy View Post
Never knew such a thing existed Thanks for heads up, will check it out.
My pleasure. Let me know if you need any help with it. If you want I can also tell you my favourite settings. Depending on model complexity and final pixel resolution a good bake might take 20 to 40 minutes, but if you have a more modern computer it might take even lesser
__________________
_____________________
|May the Force be with you!|
...\/
gap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-22, 01:13 PM   #108
Mister_M
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 778
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

So, finally, where does the glitch I'm experiencing come from ? Only a difference in the order of vertices between main and AO objects ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapuhy View Post
Mister_M, if you'd like to make some changes to model in Blender I can send you .blend files so there's less importing/exporting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
My suggestion is to switch to Blender for final model editing. This program supports object multi-mapping, i.e. the assignation of multiple UV maps on the same object. You can even import an UV map from one object to another identical object, so whatever changes you do to the model, you are sure that the two exported obj files will be identical in vertex/face structure.
I don't have Blender installed, and don't know how to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
Else, if you want to stick to Wings3D, be more careful. You want to ungroup the main model? Immediately after, ungroup the AO model too. You want to regroup a group of sub models? Make sure that you regroup exactly the same objects for both models. Your actions on each model should be specular and you should perform them exactly in the same order for having a chance of success.

Last edited by Mister_M; 01-19-22 at 01:36 PM.
Mister_M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-22, 02:40 PM   #109
gap
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CJ8937
Posts: 8,214
Downloads: 793
Uploads: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_M View Post
So, finally, where does the glitch I'm experiencing come from ? Only a difference in the order of vertices between main and AO objects ?
Yes, at this point we can conclude that this is the main, and probably the one problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_M View Post
I don't have Blender installed, and don't know how to use it.
I think no one knew how to use Blender before installing it and starting to mess with it

At the beginning the learning curve can be step, but on the internet there are a lot of guides and video-tutorials covering even the most advanced of its functionalities. I myself am still learning them. I think I will stick to Wings3D as my main modelling tool because I feel more proficient with it, but there are a lot of cool things you simply can't do in Wings and you can do in Blender. Why giving them up?
__________________
_____________________
|May the Force be with you!|
...\/
gap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-22, 02:58 PM   #110
Jeff-Groves
Village Idiot
 
Jeff-Groves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,300
Downloads: 130
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_M View Post
So, finally, where does the glitch I'm experiencing come from ? Only a difference in the order of vertices between main and AO objects ?
Yes. And there is a VERY easy way to see this in Wings3D, Blender, 3DS Max, or any other 3D program.

Copy the Faces section in the AO obj file.
(Obj files are just text files!)

Paste that over the faces section of the main obj file then open it!

If it looks like garbage? It is Garbage!

For GR2 strict import? We need to sort the faces and texture coords.
For SH3/4? The faces and textures are stored in a different TMAP section!
__________________
I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.
Jeff-Groves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-22, 03:56 PM   #111
Mister_M
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 778
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

So, in short, it's impossible to realise (unless checking everything with your trick) that AO objects are incorrect before seeing it in game... because S3D only checks if there are the same number of vertices between main and AO obj...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
I think no one knew how to use Blender before installing it and starting to mess with it
I was sure you were about to say something like that...
Mister_M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-22, 04:01 PM   #112
Jeff-Groves
Village Idiot
 
Jeff-Groves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,300
Downloads: 130
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_M View Post
So, in short, it's impossible to realise (unless checking everything with your trick) that AO objects are incorrect before seeing it in game... because S3D only checks if there are the same number of vertices between main and AO obj...
Correct!
But you can just look at the first few lines of verts in each file and see that you have a problem.
__________________
I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.
Jeff-Groves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-22, 09:12 AM   #113
gap
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CJ8937
Posts: 8,214
Downloads: 793
Uploads: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_M View Post
I was sure you were about to say something like that...
Hahahah, I am predictable and you know me well. My point still stands though
__________________
_____________________
|May the Force be with you!|
...\/
gap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-22, 01:15 PM   #114
Jeff-Groves
Village Idiot
 
Jeff-Groves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,300
Downloads: 130
Uploads: 0


Default

I had to do some research but I'll explain how a 3D model is stored in a dat file.
I'd figured this out long ago but just some details I had forgotten.

I have a Template for 010 that I'd forgotten about so I used it to refresh my memory. I guess I'm getting old!

Anyway! Here's how a dat stores the information and how I figured it out.

All verts are stored in a chunk of information easy to follow with my Template.
As are Faces and texture coords. And here's where it gets tricky!
Any extra texture coords, for say the AO mapping, get stored right along with the Main objects coords in one chunk of data.

That's where the TMAP sections come in! They point to the Verts and the texture coords in the main chunk of data! So they are nothing more then faces calling the proper lines from the main chunk of data.

S3D just puts out a proper obj file on export then on import?
Just stacks everything in it's proper place.

How I do it is to export a 3D model as a rawchunk with S3D then run my Template. It takes a few minutes to look at things and see that texture coords are GREATER then the same obj files exported by S3D.

Should anyone want to see the Template and the files I worked with let me know.

SH5 does it a bit differently.
__________________
I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.
Jeff-Groves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-22, 01:57 PM   #115
Jeff-Groves
Village Idiot
 
Jeff-Groves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,300
Downloads: 130
Uploads: 0


Default

Now! back to the dat information!

There's one more small bit of information to know on reading the textures in hex!

Say I have this in the obj file.....
vt 2.548912764 0.04277324677

But my Template shows this!
float U_coord 2.548913
float V_coord 0.9572268

Don't make sense? yes it does! Subtract the float V_coord from 1!

I'll have to edit my Template to get the proper read out.


I also have to Credit my Friend Anvart (Alex) for most of the Template.
__________________
I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.

Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 01-21-22 at 05:06 PM.
Jeff-Groves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-22, 05:38 PM   #116
Jeff-Groves
Village Idiot
 
Jeff-Groves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,300
Downloads: 130
Uploads: 0


Default

Like I said before. I'd forgotten more then most even know.
Going over the information in a dat file I remembered even more!
I'm working on fixing the Template to show EXACTLY what you'd see when exported with S3D.

One area is the faces and how they are stored in a dat file.
One needs to read the first part then read the second.

It's kind of crazy but here's what you see.
We read 3 Verts THEN read the 3 Textures!
So if a Face is 3/1 2/3 5/4?
You will read 3 2 5 in Hex THEN 1 3 4!

Now I know most don't give a crap about that kind of stuff. But I do for a reason!
I am working on an Exporter to rip 3D models from SH3/4 that ACTUALLY places the parts in their positions just as you see them in S3D or in Game!
There is NOTHING that does that!
__________________
I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.

Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 01-22-22 at 05:56 PM.
Jeff-Groves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-22, 06:44 PM   #117
vickers03
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: germany
Posts: 964
Downloads: 702
Uploads: 37


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves View Post
I am working on an Exporter to rip 3D models from SH3/4 that ACTUALLY places the parts in their positions just as you see them in S3D or in Game!
that would be awesome
vickers03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-22, 11:24 PM   #118
tonschk
Admiral
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,200
Downloads: 172
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves View Post
I am working on an Exporter to rip 3D models from SH3/4 that ACTUALLY places the parts in their positions just as you see them in S3D or in Game!
There is NOTHING that does that!
Amazing, thank you Jeff-Groves
__________________
What we do in life echoes in Eternity
tonschk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-22, 10:51 AM   #119
gap
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CJ8937
Posts: 8,214
Downloads: 793
Uploads: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves View Post
I am working on an Exporter to rip 3D models from SH3/4 that ACTUALLY places the parts in their positions just as you see them in S3D or in Game!
There is NOTHING that does that!
That would be nice

Indeed, one can arrange model parts in their desired position by manually adding/subtracting node translation/rotation values, but performing this task on model of a certain complexity is a PITA because nested objects inherit position/rotation from their parent objects
__________________
_____________________
|May the Force be with you!|
...\/
gap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.