Tell us what you're up to in current campaign (lets get this one going lol)

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Nice haul and job on the night surface attack

Do you feel the night surface attacks are: Too easy or just right balance?

Well, for me and until this date, I think that they are right balance. Why?

1. One time, current campaign (the one of the latest reports) I spot a small convoy - one escort and 3 or 2 ships. Clear sky, crystal flat water, moon light.
Approached slowly, let them come tome me, try always to to be in a angle of 45º, etc.
At 3000-2000 yards, the merchants spotted me. Began to fire all their weapons, flood lights at me, etc. Had to dive. Possible I should have done a submerge attack, with all that clarity.


2. Convoys that the escorts detect me, by any means. So it is not always: "it's easy peasy".


3. Until this time, I only manage to get inside a convoy once.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Well, for me and until this date, I think that they are right balance. Why?

Feedback, is important, more so if things are not as they should be... & without that info, well... modder's (too many to try & name all here... *nod to all of them*) won't know what needs tweaking to either dial it back or amp it up if a response times off either way... in short, feedback is necessary in order to make... course corrections, dependent on what those are & where they are needed to be.


So.... if you do run into an issue, always strive to make sure to gather every last shred, scrap, miniscule bit of info to give... so that when the modder goes to find what is causing a problem... they'll know where to start looking.... & be able to see just what is the cause of it & what to do to solve/correct/fix it. Or to be able to narrow it down & confer/confab with other modders, in figuring out what can be done to do so... as sometimes... 2 heads (or more) are better than 1.











M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Well, for me and until this date, I think that they are right balance. Why?

1. One time, current campaign (the one of the latest reports) I spot a small convoy - one escort and 3 or 2 ships. Clear sky, crystal flat water, moon light.
Approached slowly, let them come tome me, try always to to be in a angle of 45º, etc.
At 3000-2000 yards, the merchants spotted me. Began to fire all their weapons, flood lights at me, etc. Had to dive. Possible I should have done a submerge attack, with all that clarity.


2. Convoys that the escorts detect me, by any means. So it is not always: "it's easy peasy"





3. Until this time, I only manage to get inside a convoy once.

Oh, I was just wondering, glad you find it balanced. I do as well, quite happy with it, even though at times it seems kind of easy but thats the balance. Really all has to do with conditions of the night for most part, minaly light and fog. As MM pointed out, feedback is very important in modding. My experience is not always the experience others have. One reason and a unfortunate part of modding, is I have a inside track on the workings of the mod. I actually do my best not to use that knowledge and try to create things so they can vary and feel I struck that balance in TMO. Even though I designed the TMO Update, changed a lot of things, have do hours and hours of testing and I can not always predict how things will go down, I still get caught off guard, and even lose my boat now and then. Mod remains a challenge, even for me, which was the goal. Having said, want it difficult but not impossible. I loved the original TMO, but at times it was impossible, primarily due to the damage model and overpowered depth charges, which I corrected. With addition of night surface


Sounds like you are doing it right, keeping angles small to reduce visibility. Yes, moonlight is the main factor in night surface attacks. I always attack so the moon is behind the convoy, my position is "down moon". A rule of thumb is full moon, go for night attack with periscope or shadow until dawn, then attack, use the rising sun to illuminate the targets, works well. Much like human eyes, the visual sensors have difficulty during transition time of dawn and dusk, so if torpedo wakes are coming from the "dark side" (west) at dawn, they typically have more trouble spotted them.

Sometimes there is no moon but the night is just lighter than others, can chance it, Captains discretion. Thing about mod is those without radar have a hard time tracking you on surface (as should, subs were tough to see on surface, esp at night) for very long. Your boat can disappear into the night, as so many did.

Calm seas is best for surface attacks because your sub becomes more visible in heavy seas due to the spray kicked up, water flowing out of the superstructure's holes. Heavy seas also slows your boats surface maneuverability and dive speeds down.


Far as getting inside convoys, well that is a very situational thing, but quite possible, provides a real advantage, and is a lot of fun. Mainly only possible in mid 1944 on, when Japanese started running larger, allied style convoys, the convoys in TMO (most of them) esp the North South/HI convoys (Singapore-Japan) and N/X Takao-Manila(TAMA )Manila to Takao (MATA convoys). Previous to mid 1944, its rare to find a convoy suitable for a attack from inside.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Feedback, is important, more so if things are not as they should be... & without that info, well... modder's (too many to try & name all here... *nod to all of them*) won't know what needs tweaking to either dial it back or amp it up if a response times off either way... in short, feedback is necessary in order to make... course corrections, dependent on what those are & where they are needed to be.


So.... if you do run into an issue, always strive to make sure to gather every last shred, scrap, miniscule bit of info to give... so that when the modder goes to find what is causing a problem... they'll know where to start looking.... & be able to see just what is the cause of it & what to do to solve/correct/fix it. Or to be able to narrow it down & confer/confab with other modders, in figuring out what can be done to do so... as sometimes... 2 heads (or more) are better than 1.











M. M.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Oh, I was just wondering, glad you find it balanced. I do as well, quite happy with it, even though at times it seems kind of easy but thats the balance. Really all has to do with conditions of the night for most part, minaly light and fog. As MM pointed out, feedback is very important in modding. My experience is not always the experience others have. One reason and a unfortunate part of modding, is I have a inside track on the workings of the mod. I actually do my best not to use that knowledge and try to create things so they can vary and feel I struck that balance in TMO. Even though I designed the TMO Update, changed a lot of things, have do hours and hours of testing and I can not always predict how things will go down, I still get caught off guard, and even lose my boat now and then. Mod remains a challenge, even for me, which was the goal. Having said, want it difficult but not impossible. I loved the original TMO, but at times it was impossible, primarily due to the damage model and overpowered depth charges, which I corrected. With addition of night surface


Sounds like you are doing it right, keeping angles small to reduce visibility. Yes, moonlight is the main factor in night surface attacks. I always attack so the moon is behind the convoy, my position is "down moon". A rule of thumb is full moon, go for night attack with periscope or shadow until dawn, then attack, use the rising sun to illuminate the targets, works well. Much like human eyes, the visual sensors have difficulty during transition time of dawn and dusk, so if torpedo wakes are coming from the "dark side" (west) at dawn, they typically have more trouble spotted them.

Sometimes there is no moon but the night is just lighter than others, can chance it, Captains discretion. Thing about mod is those without radar have a hard time tracking you on surface (as should, subs were tough to see on surface, esp at night) for very long. Your boat can disappear into the night, as so many did.

Calm seas is best for surface attacks because your sub becomes more visible in heavy seas due to the spray kicked up, water flowing out of the superstructure's holes. Heavy seas also slows your boats surface maneuverability and dive speeds down.


Far as getting inside convoys, well that is a very situational thing, but quite possible, provides a real advantage, and is a lot of fun. Mainly only possible in mid 1944 on, when Japanese started running larger, allied style convoys, the convoys in TMO (most of them) esp the North South/HI convoys (Singapore-Japan) and N/X Takao-Manila(TAMA )Manila to Takao (MATA convoys). Previous to mid 1944, its rare to find a convoy suitable for a attack from inside.

My "why" was not I asking Bubblehead1980 why did he ask me. Was just me answering him why do I find it balance and the my reasons for it. I notice now I forgot writing "because" before the list of reasons. I only noticed that when I red my post again.

It was something lost in translation and about writing instead of a conversation and different languages all together. I apologise for the miss understanding



Of course the feedback is important and that's the reason I try to answer the best i can, explaining all the game experiences and my insights.


Bugs and oddities, I post in the other thread, mod section. I have a few things, but been postponing.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

My "why" was not I asking Bubblehead1980 why did he ask me. Was just me answering him why do I find it balance and the my reasons for it. I notice now I forgot writing "because" before the list of reasons. I only noticed that when I red my post again.

It was something lost in translation and about writing instead of a conversation and different languages all together. I apologize for the misunderstanding.



Of course the feedback is important and that's the reason I try to answer the best i can, explaining all the game experiences and my insights.


Bugs and oddities, I post in the other thread, mod section. I have a few things, but been postponing.

Hey... no sweat... can well understand that, the phrase... 'been there, done that', well comes to mind... on more than 1 occasion at the least, for Me at any rate.










M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

My "why" was not I asking Bubblehead1980 why did he ask me. Was just me answering him why do I find it balance and the my reasons for it. I notice now I forgot writing "because" before the list of reasons. I only noticed that when I red my post again.

It was something lost in translation and about writing instead of a conversation and different languages all together. I apologise for the miss understanding



Of course the feedback is important and that's the reason I try to answer the best i can, explaining all the game experiences and my insights.


Bugs and oddities, I post in the other thread, mod section. I have a few things, but been postponing.

Got it. You do a great job Thanks for the reports, look forward to more of them.

[Bubblehead1980]

Dark Waters
100 difficulty, no map contacts, no camera.

U-47 April 27, 1940
Grid AF 7995 in North Sea.


Have been in area in support of the German invasion of Norway beginning April 9th. Have suffered numerous torpedo failures.......12 fired, 4 hit, sinking two ships Other eight....4 premature explosions, 3 duds, one unexplained miss possibly ran deep.


While on surface at 1300 hours 27 April spotted a destroyer and then smoke of merchants. Soon spotted French flagged merchants and destroyers. Fired a TII G7e electric torpedo at 9000 ton merchant , suddenly (All bow torpedoes expended), sound reported warship close closing fast. Swung scope to bearing to find a Adroit Class destroyer just 600 meters away! Apparently, these destroyers are not equipped with ASDIC but only hydrophones, this concealed his approached. Ordered a Alarm and hard dive on planes. DD roared above as boat passed 25 meters and dropped large Wasserbombe pattern. Boat shaken with minor leaks, quickly repaired.

A torpedo impact was reported, but no further signs of a destroyed ship were heard.

Took boat to 115 meters and silent routine. Enemy bombed in area, but never close for remainder of attack.

[Rhodes]

TMO Update BH V2.0+patches

USS Paddle - 12 Jun, 1944, 31 July, 1944. 7th Patrol
Destination: North-East Hookaido - patrolling and anti-shipping actions.


After I calm voyage, the USS Paddle arrived to her destination for 25 days of anti-shipping actions.

The first days were spend patrolling near Kushiro with heavy weather conditions. Only a few hours at surface and the rest submerge.

Second area, after a few days, more southwest, calmer weather but no targets or contacts.

COMSUBPAC after 10 days declared mission completed and assign Area 4 as the nest destination for the USS Paddle!



Uneventful travel to the area; after a few days, only light escorts detected.

Decided to go South and them Southwest. Convoy detected!
Storm weather and 0 visibility. Intercepted the convoy and decided to attack on surface using the radar to detect and plot my solution.

The escorts were not aware my presence so near the ships. Fired all bow tubes, manage to score a merchant.

Then the escorts did awake and force the USS Paddle to dive, they manage to pin-point my location with that weather.

After a few hours of depth charging, they lost me when order 400 ft depth.



Second part of the patrol, on that area was of boredom...





In one occasion, a single ship was detected by sonar, merchant, travelling East, slow speed. Manage to intercept and fire 2 torpedos. One missed because of error on the speed+ship evasion manoeuvres. The other passed under the ship ?!!! Then, plane detected and a destroyer...
The ship escaped, I crash dive to avoid the plane. After coming to periscope depth again, the destroyer was searching for me. Decided to engage and:


He still keep going at fast speed... we got to love those toyota engines...
But he decided to go way.

After more days of Notting and going to the last part of Area 4 before leaving, I detected a destroyer and decide to go away. The ship was travelling slow, possible the destroyer that I had engaged before.

On moving away from it, Radar pick up something relatively near. Put the binoculars and saw 2 huge things coming from the light horizon fog.
A task force of 2 heavy cruisers with an escort.



Decided to attack using my last bow torpedos and with my aft tubes and reserves still to use, didn't think more. Reported find, orders to inflict heavy damages.



They were zigzaging, speed was estimate of 20,5 knts. NE route, I was SE +/-, almost 90º.

I switch of my radar and at one point the escort stopped! The cruisers continue their zig-zaging. I shot all my bow torpedos at around 3000 yards and turn 90 degrees to shoot my aft tubes.

2 hits on the first one and one hit on the second one. The first one became dead on the water, the second one only later did the same.

Then the escort did come back to life and chase me, had to dive and since he was going on a strait path to my derriere, silent speed and went for bow shot.

Tube 7 was already loaded and the destoyer didn't move from his path. solution ready and at 600 yards, Fire...
And forgot to set the depth of the torpedo to its slowest valour and the torpedo goes under the ship... but since I had changed to influence it did exploded near the propellers. The destroyer lost it high speed but still manage to socre some hit on me.

Damages were always minor to medium and deal with. My top speed underwater was 5, since my batteries were not charged when I pick up the task force.

Even so, at 370ft, 1 knt silent running, he lost me and I manage to get way. After a wile I went to periscope depth and saw both my targets dead on the water and had 3 torpedos left. 2 to the second crusier and the last to the first.



one down
I shot my last torpedo and he decides to go the other way, possible to see something... I forgot to click 2 times on the bering...


Spotted the escort at long range, so exit route at 2 knts, ESE, 100 ft.

After 3 hours had to surface to charge the bateries!



After reaching Pearl, Promoted to Commander and got the Navy Commendation Medal!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

TMO Update BH V2.0+patches

USS Paddle - 12 Jun, 1944, 31 July, 1944. 7th Patrol
Destination: North-East Hookaido - patrolling and anti-shipping actions.


After I calm voyage, the USS Paddle arrived to her destination for 25 days of anti-shipping actions.

The first days were spend patrolling near Kushiro with heavy weather conditions. Only a few hours at surface and the rest submerge.

Second area, after a few days, more southwest, calmer weather but no targets or contacts.

COMSUBPAC after 10 days declared mission completed and assign Area 4 as the nest destination for the USS Paddle!



Uneventful travel to the area; after a few days, only light escorts detected.

Decided to go South and them Southwest. Convoy detected!
Storm weather and 0 visibility. Intercepted the convoy and decided to attack on surface using the radar to detect and plot my solution.

The escorts were not aware my presence so near the ships. Fired all bow tubes, manage to score a merchant.

Then the escorts did awake and force the USS Paddle to dive, they manage to pin-point my location with that weather.

After a few hours of depth charging, they lost me when order 400 ft depth.



Second part of the patrol, on that area was of boredom...





In one occasion, a single ship was detected by sonar, merchant, travelling East, slow speed. Manage to intercept and fire 2 torpedos. One missed because of error on the speed+ship evasion manoeuvres. The other passed under the ship ?!!! Then, plane detected and a destroyer...
The ship escaped, I crash dive to avoid the plane. After coming to periscope depth again, the destroyer was searching for me. Decided to engage and:


He still keep going at fast speed... we got to love those toyota engines...
But he decided to go way.

After more days of Notting and going to the last part of Area 4 before leaving, I detected a destroyer and decide to go away. The ship was travelling slow, possible the destroyer that I had engaged before.

On moving away from it, Radar pick up something relatively near. Put the binoculars and saw 2 huge things coming from the light horizon fog.
A task force of 2 heavy cruisers with an escort.



Decided to attack using my last bow torpedos and with my aft tubes and reserves still to use, didn't think more. Reported find, orders to inflict heavy damages.



They were zigzaging, speed was estimate of 20,5 knts. NE route, I was SE +/-, almost 90º.

I switch of my radar and at one point the escort stopped! The cruisers continue their zig-zaging. I shot all my bow torpedos at around 3000 yards and turn 90 degrees to shoot my aft tubes.

2 hits on the first one and one hit on the second one. The first one became dead on the water, the second one only later did the same.

Then the escort did come back to life and chase me, had to dive and since he was going on a strait path to my derriere, silent speed and went for bow shot.

Tube 7 was already loaded and the destoyer didn't move from his path. solution ready and at 600 yards, Fire...
And forgot to set the depth of the torpedo to its slowest valour and the torpedo goes under the ship... but since I had changed to influence it did exploded near the propellers. The destroyer lost it high speed but still manage to socre some hit on me.

Damages were always minor to medium and deal with. My top speed underwater was 5, since my batteries were not charged when I pick up the task force.

Even so, at 370ft, 1 knt silent running, he lost me and I manage to get way. After a wile I went to periscope depth and saw both my targets dead on the water and had 3 torpedos left. 2 to the second crusier and the last to the first.



one down
I shot my last torpedo and he decides to go the other way, possible to see something... I forgot to click 2 times on the bering...


Spotted the escort at long range, so exit route at 2 knts, ESE, 100 ft.

After 3 hours had to surface to charge the bateries!



After reaching Pearl, Promoted to Commander and got the Navy Commendation Medal!

Well done

Always fun/challenging when run into warships. Zigging at 20 kts can be a tough target if unlucky and out of position at contact, difficult to pass them them. Nice job on the sinking. I'm off un U Boat landing in Dark Waters having a blast currently, but I miss the pacific and fleetboats lol.

Nice job on damaging the DD. Influence was still active in 1944? Thought I disabled magnetic features on torpedoes per history in mid 1943 for pac boats and jan 1944 for Australia based boats.. I'll have to check into that.


DD should have been disabled or sunk. I've tried for years to go someone with the know how to fix the DD's damage model in TMO. I unfortunately do not have the knowledge and at this moment, do not have time to learn.


Likely in a effort to make enemy escorts tougher to kill, original creator of TMO decided to strengthen their bows and sterns and reworked damage zones. I learn this first career in TMO when I tried a down the throat shot, it hit he DD and DD kept on coming. I was quite annoyed lol. That was a real tactic used and it was deadly. The unfortunate side effects was they had absurdly strong bows and to a lesser degree sterns, also their midships was strengthened and thus they do not split in two, which was something stock had right, there are quite a few photos and reports showing japanese DD's split in two from torpedo hits DD's were small warships and vulnerable to torpedoes, esp bow shots.

Hopefully one day someone with the know how will take on this task and correct this for my TMO Update.