What exactly does this mean (counter-detected)?

MarkShot · 07-20-05, 04:01 PM

SC 1.08 Seawolf Akula Port Egress mission

What does the following mean (regarding being detected)? Usually, if you are counter-detected in their home waters, then you get a TIW. So, does this mean that someone assigned a tracker to me, but perhaps lost me before they could engage? Or does it mean that they never were able to actually ID me as a hostile? Or does it mean that they had IDed me, but didn't manage to produce a satisfactory weapons solution?

Thanks.

Quote:

Captain:,LogStkCamp,Ship:,Seawolf (SEAWOLF),Campaign:,SeawolfCampaign Progress:,5 of 14
Mission:,Akula Port Egress
Resolution:,Complete
Elapsed Time:,02:00:39

Goals:
Critical
Enter the Harbor,Complete,100
Exit the area,Complete,100
Non-Critical
Track Akula,Complete,100
Remain Undetected,Incomplete,0
Track to deep waters,Complete,100

Kills:
(none)
Damaged:,(none)

Ultraboy · 07-20-05, 09:53 PM

Wild guess... You're not at war, so they didn't fire on you. It's been so long since I did the campaign that I simply don't remember anything about it, but I seem to recall failing a few different missions due to being detected. My advice is to try staying below 5 knots.

MarkShot · 07-20-05, 11:01 PM

As far as I can tell, they will fire upon you if they get a solid contact (meaning you are close).

Regarding speed ... these days I travel at any speed up to 10kts without worrying about it, since someone had produced a chart showing that object noise amplitude is constant from 0-10kts in SC. It only begins to increase beyond 10kts.

Ultraboy · 07-20-05, 11:55 PM

Hmm, haven't seen that chart myself... always thought it was zero to five or six knots before you got louder, in the game of course.

MarkShot · 07-21-05, 07:28 AM

Sorry, I don't have it handy as it is on my dead desktop system at the moment, but it came up over the last few months in various DW discussions.

SquidB · 07-21-05, 02:03 PM

Could be wrong, but whilst the noise generated by your sub may not (or may) increase from 0-10 knots your sonar will be affected.

Therefore you wont hear a contact until your closer.

So the only time I go over 5kts is when theres a torp after me or im trying to get somewhere. In which case sprint and drift is order of the day.

The "You have been counter detected" message is just the games way of telling you you screwed up. I guess its there so you dont play through a 3 hour mission only to find out you failed at the end.

Ultraboy · 07-21-05, 10:02 PM

That's right, as I understood it, not your sound in-game, but your "detectability" if you will, is unchanged between zero and about five knots.

DeepSixNiner · 07-24-05, 03:13 PM

I remember that chart, too. If I'm not mistaken, it was later discovered by someone far more knowledgeable of the workings of SC than me that the Seawolf sub did not have significant noise change up to 10 knots, but the Akulas and the 688i began to make more noise after 6 to 8 knots. I believe the amount of noise an object generates is directly related to it's maxium speed. I've learned this from adding new "biologic" contacts to my database. When adding new sounds, I decided that biologics should show up in some way on the narrowband display, so I created a new type of biologic "object", and gave each one a very unique narrowband signature. When I changed the objects maximum speed, it generated more noise depending on how close it was travelling in relation to it's maxium speed.

Sorry if this is like reading Arabic for some, but I like to yap. Anyway, the Seawolf has a pretty high maximum speed, and a very low "noise" level in the database, so you can get her up to 10 knots without seeing much of a change. The 688i and Akula have fairly high maximum speeds, but they also have a higher "noise" level. After reading this thread, I decided to test the theory out, I created a test scenario, tracking several types of boats from close range using USS Seawolf. Sure enough, the Ohio's, Virginia's, and Seawolf's don't have a significant change in noise output until they get up to about 11 knots. The Ohio was about 10. For Trafalgar, Los Angeles and Akula class boats, the noise began to increase around 7 knots. For diesel boats, it was a much lower speed, usually around 6 knots or so, but the real quiet diesel boats, like the Collins, Upholder, and the Swedish subs, the noise didn't begin to rise until around 7 knots, much like the SSN's.

From these tests, I believe the noise level output are pretty darn accurate.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

ShadowWulf · 07-27-05, 01:05 AM

You can find the chart in this thread. http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39406

Hmmm thanks for the tests DeepSixNiner, always found the chart a bit odd myself but wasnt about to make scenarios to test it. I've heard so many differant opinions on this matter but ill trust you on it since you have tested (im an akula driver and i could swear i get detected more when i try the 10knot cruise)

07-20-05, 11:01 PM	#3
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	As far as I can tell, they will fire upon you if they get a solid contact (meaning you are close). Regarding speed ... these days I travel at any speed up to 10kts without worrying about it, since someone had produced a chart showing that object noise amplitude is constant from 0-10kts in SC. It only begins to increase beyond 10kts. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-21-05, 07:28 AM	#5
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Sorry, I don't have it handy as it is on my dead desktop system at the moment, but it came up over the last few months in various DW discussions. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-27-05, 01:05 AM	#9
ShadowWulf Seaman Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 36 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You can find the chart in this thread. http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39406 Hmmm thanks for the tests DeepSixNiner, always found the chart a bit odd myself but wasnt about to make scenarios to test it. I've heard so many differant opinions on this matter but ill trust you on it since you have tested (im an akula driver and i could swear i get detected more when i try the 10knot cruise) __________________ Old SeaDogs Fight Forever

07-20-05, 09:53 PM	#2
Ultraboy Gunner Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Mysterious Canadas Posts: 99 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Wild guess... You're not at war, so they didn't fire on you. It's been so long since I did the campaign that I simply don't remember anything about it, but I seem to recall failing a few different missions due to being detected. My advice is to try staying below 5 knots.

07-20-05, 11:55 PM	#4
Ultraboy Gunner Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Mysterious Canadas Posts: 99 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Hmm, haven't seen that chart myself... always thought it was zero to five or six knots before you got louder, in the game of course.

07-21-05, 02:03 PM	#6
SquidB Engineer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lytham UK Posts: 217 Downloads: 167 Uploads: 0	Could be wrong, but whilst the noise generated by your sub may not (or may) increase from 0-10 knots your sonar will be affected. Therefore you wont hear a contact until your closer. So the only time I go over 5kts is when theres a torp after me or im trying to get somewhere. In which case sprint and drift is order of the day. The "You have been counter detected" message is just the games way of telling you you screwed up. I guess its there so you dont play through a 3 hour mission only to find out you failed at the end.

07-21-05, 10:02 PM	#7
Ultraboy Gunner Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Mysterious Canadas Posts: 99 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	That's right, as I understood it, not your sound in-game, but your "detectability" if you will, is unchanged between zero and about five knots.

07-24-05, 03:13 PM	#8
DeepSixNiner Seaman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Victoria, Canada Posts: 31 Downloads: 357 Uploads: 0	I remember that chart, too. If I'm not mistaken, it was later discovered by someone far more knowledgeable of the workings of SC than me that the Seawolf sub did not have significant noise change up to 10 knots, but the Akulas and the 688i began to make more noise after 6 to 8 knots. I believe the amount of noise an object generates is directly related to it's maxium speed. I've learned this from adding new "biologic" contacts to my database. When adding new sounds, I decided that biologics should show up in some way on the narrowband display, so I created a new type of biologic "object", and gave each one a very unique narrowband signature. When I changed the objects maximum speed, it generated more noise depending on how close it was travelling in relation to it's maxium speed. Sorry if this is like reading Arabic for some, but I like to yap. Anyway, the Seawolf has a pretty high maximum speed, and a very low "noise" level in the database, so you can get her up to 10 knots without seeing much of a change. The 688i and Akula have fairly high maximum speeds, but they also have a higher "noise" level. After reading this thread, I decided to test the theory out, I created a test scenario, tracking several types of boats from close range using USS Seawolf. Sure enough, the Ohio's, Virginia's, and Seawolf's don't have a significant change in noise output until they get up to about 11 knots. The Ohio was about 10. For Trafalgar, Los Angeles and Akula class boats, the noise began to increase around 7 knots. For diesel boats, it was a much lower speed, usually around 6 knots or so, but the real quiet diesel boats, like the Collins, Upholder, and the Swedish subs, the noise didn't begin to rise until around 7 knots, much like the SSN's. From these tests, I believe the noise level output are pretty darn accurate. Hope this helps. Cheers.