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Old 09-18-23, 08:08 PM   #61
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46. Variable "known" distances, times and other AI behaviour

One of the more irritating aspects of this game is that there are a number of AI behaviours with well-known parameters, which a canny u-boat captain may exploit, utterly secure in the "knowledge" that if he keeps outside of these values, or below them, the AI will behave in certain completely predictable ways. To my mind these should be more "fuzzy", and the AI reactions they elicit, more varied. This applies to zigging, to range from escort when visually detected, to the depth and range of hydrophone and asdic detection, and to the precise timing of convoys resuming their course, and much else besides.

I would prefer it escorts might call over another to their side, and perhaps give no outward sign that they've detected a u-boat, and/or to make changes of course consistent with not having detected a u-boat, before at some point prosecuting an attack-run. Likewise a convoy changing speed and/or course by 2 kts or so, and 20 degrees or so, rather than simply putting all the lights on to telegraph to all concerned that a detection has occurred. In short, a less predictable AI behaviour combined with a more uncertain detection environment, and a less obvious - sometimes - AI reaction.

This could be a selectable degree of difficulty, and when played would mean that whilst you might KNOW the distance at which your boat WILL be detected visually, you won't be able to state with certainty that you boat is undetected merely because you're outside that "safe" range. Likewise, whilst you know if you're quiet, you cannot be detected on hydrophones, now there'd be no "safe-depth" at which you can KNOW you're undetected or immune to being detected on asdic and DC'd.

It's important, in my estimate, that the game have a series of difficulty levels, so that there's always room for players and captains to play at a more challenging level, as that helps retain players in the long-term.

AI behaviours that could then be developed are for more than one escort to attack a given contact, in turn leaving gaps in the convoy which other u-boats can exploit. A human player controlling the behaviour of the convoy, with timers controlling when changes to course can made, how many escorts are despatched to which contact would be a very worthwhile adjunct to this, as again, it'd make the overall AI response to events that much less predictable.

Last edited by Fidd; 09-19-23 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 09-20-23, 06:28 AM   #62
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47. U-boat development.

I'd like to see the available "years" to play extended gradually towards 1945, with new torpedoes such as the "Lut" series, "zaukoenig" acoustic torpedoes, and an updated TDC for the former's use. Additionally, "Naxos" and "Metox" ASR warning, and "Albericht" counter sonar rubber covering, and heavier flak. Conversely, hedge-hogs and heavier DC salvoes, and radar for some escorts. I suggest that in order to be able to gain these later war u-boat upgrades, captains be required to survive a number of games in earlier years, and achieve a number of mission successes. Having gained them, if they choose to play a game set in an earlier year, then of course they only are able to use upgrades suitable for that year/month. In a similar fashion, weapons and sensors on escorts are likewise tied to the appropriate year/month.

The effect of this would be to extend the difficulty levels of the game, as well as compel changes in tactics used, to help retain players in the long-term, as there is room for the game to become more difficult, as well as some kudos for captains able to play the later years! Being killed in a post '41 game would lose you one upgrade, retrievable by a mission success in another?
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Old 09-20-23, 08:17 PM   #63
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48. "Convoy commander"

As a precursor to playable escorts, it'd be interesting to consider there being a single player who had some measure of control on the convoy, determining (within allowable limits) when, by how much, and how frequently, the convoy changes heading. Additionally, it'd be good if the convoy commander was able to detach an escort to prosecute asdic searches in a given location, and for how long it, (and any other boats directed to the same area) would prosecute searches and attacks. In all other respects, (for now) the escorts AI would be in effect, with the only changes being that they can be directed to an area on the map, and the duration of asdic searches and attacks. It might well be the case, that a destroyer is despatched to force a u-boat down, and then a Flower or Bittern is used for the attacks whilst the destroyer goes tearing back to the convoy...

This would start to introduce a PVP "battle of wits" between the u-boat players, and the enemy, with dispositions of escorts being more varied as escorts are used to hunt a particular u-boat; and conversely, that other uboats may then be able to exploit a thinned escort screen....

The "convoy commander" would be on the bridge of a Tribal or Bittern, on the "flying bridge". He'd hear pings and echoes, as well as radio reports generated by other escorts detecting a u-boat, or any ship seeing any part of a u-boat. Locations would be given in relation to his position. "3nm SE of you" for example. In time, other player-operated roles might exist on the escorts such as asdic operator, hydrophone operator, gunnery officer, DC officer and navigator.

In order to remove as much of the boredom as possible, I suggest that allied escort crews be able to "teleport" to and from any escort. If leaving one un-crewed, this is notified to the convoy commander, allowing him to set an area to which it should now move, operating under it's AI control. This will allow a limited number of allied players to prosecute DC attacks on a u-boat whilst the convoy commander moves other escorts to other contacts, which they can then teleport to later, in order to "do the fun bit". This mixture of AI and player operated behaviour allows the AI to deal with the humdrum patroling side, whilst giving the attacks themselves the best possible reality. As a human player is capable of much better tactical decisions - he might choose to keep an asdic search going for some time, dropping DC's sporadically - in order to keep a u-boat down long enough for the convoy to move away a distance - or hunt it until it's sunk!

It's also possible that a skeleton crew of players operates each escort, only joining a particular escort to a fully-crewed status for the asdic search/DC attack when it's general location is known....

I'm firmly convinced that this mixed AI/real-player solution, if it can be coded, allows for a given number of escorts to be controlled according to the mind of the convoy commander, whilst keeping at a minimum number of additional players required to crew them, and therefore reduces the load on the server that another 30 (allied) players would involve to crew all escorts.... It would also reduce the boredom involved of "dashing about" in a Corvette at 18 kts!

The general effect of these changes, especially in concert with variable detection ranges (#46), would be to create uncertainty as to whether or not, or when precisely, a u-boat is detected. Because the response to a detection is driven by a human mind, rather than AI, and instead AI is used more to do the bidding of that human mind, traps and stratagems may be used to counter a u-boat attack. Examples might be: Chasing down an intial detection with tribals or bitterns, then human players take over the tribals to prosecute initial attacks, whilst a flower-class is sent also. When the flower arrives, it takes over from the Tribal and continues with searches/dc attacks whilst the Tribal is sent haring back to the convoy to close any gap in the escort screen. A Bittern in then sent to join the Flower class, taking over the search/attack, releasing the Flower-class to chase the rear of the convoy (initially). Finally the Bittern leaves to rejoin the convoy, leaving the u-boat now well out of a firing position, if indeed it has survived. The CC would then direct Flowers towards the front of the convoy as opportunity arises, with faster escorts covering the rear of the convoy?

Intelligent use of the escorts, with players in the above example manning the Tribal, Flower class, Bittern sequentially, would cause much longer asdic searches/dc attacks. With no "safe depth" from asdic contact, (but in practical terms a relatively safe depth for dc hits) it would also allow for a more finessed damage-model to be put in place over time, and a much more varied gaming experience for an evening's play. So human-augmented AI, where decisions are placed in the hands of the human "convoy commander" (CC), with AI manning escorts and complying with directions from the CC eg "go hear and asdic search" to a given ship, and human players jumping at will into escort ships previously manned by AI, allows for a minimal number of allied players to give the convoy defense a much more realistic and intelligent defence?

Rendering range of a uboat to a human escort player would need to be linked to light-level and visibility, to side-step players using gamma to see u-boats further out, at least mostly.

Last edited by Fidd; 12-18-23 at 04:24 AM. Reason: addition of final three paras
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Old 09-20-23, 08:33 PM   #64
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49. Change lobby simple-radio choice to a per-boat choice, not a lobby choice, and to be able to freely change between simple and complex "on the fly" in game.

On organised games where real morse-code is used, it would be enormously useful if boats lacking a radio-operator (as sometimes happens, either through lack of volunteers, or latency problems rendering mutilated morse signals). So if a boat lacks a radio operator it could employ simple radio to send and receive, whilst the other boats can use morse. If a radio operator capable of using morse joins, then it can be changed back to complex radio. Similarly if a game starts and it's discovered that there are serious latency problems rendering morse unintelligable, all or some of the "complex" radio-operators can change to simple-radio without the lobby having to be restarted. RENDERED (partially) MOOT BY IMPROVEMENTS TO MORSE

If the simple radio boat sends "encrypted" then the morse signal received by other boats would require decryption. (possibly as a subsidiary selectable setting?)

Once the "per-boat" approach to settings is introduced, it could be extended to allow skippers to choose their own torpedo load-out, whether they're using automatic engines and so forth. This would be especially useful for when multi-boat games are short of a few players.

If a u-boat captain survives "x" missions, and gains mission successes, then the load-out avialable to him might include, date permitting, the use of a few exotic torpedoes, such as "zaukoenig" or "lut" torpedoes, with more average players receving them later in date? If he's on a killed boat, (or logs out from a boat subsequently killed) then he loses this privilege?

Last edited by Fidd; 11-28-23 at 05:18 AM. Reason: addition of final para
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Old 09-23-23, 06:06 AM   #65
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50. Variable height and build of crew and officers.

Although this would be a nuisance from a coding point of view, as eye-height would need to vary with changes in height, as would uniform geometry, this would help players, especially those who regularly play together, to discriminate between one player and other by their height and/or build, rather than just the tool-tip or hat configuration. It would also make the crew rather more realistic looking. Height and build would be randomly assigned on 1st play session after enactment, and then kept thereafter.
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Old 09-23-23, 12:05 PM   #66
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51. "Alarm" bells in every compartment? I don't know if this was the case, but it seems to me very odd that there are not alarm bells in the engine rooms, NCO mess, officer's mess and forward torpedo room. I'd be really interested to know if these existed elsewhere in the boat other than the control-room. I'm fairly confident that they must have, if only to ensure crew went to their battle-stations, or were primed to run forwards to assist with the dive angle change required to dive quickly. (Oh for an animation with running footsteps of crew vaulting into the torpedo room as fast as they can! There may not have been the alarm switches to start and stop the alarm bells, but I'd be extremely surprised if there were not additional bells in those compartments - or - that the alarm bell in the control room wasn't so loud it's use wasn't missable in the messes, forward torpedo room and engine rooms. It's possible that alarm-bell switches were in those room, in order to alert the whole crew to an onboard fire or chlorine being present....?

[EDIT] Since writing this idea, Stosstrup has written to me and shewn me what appears to be wartime drawings, demonstrating that repeater alarm bells were indeed present in most compartments, however, that the switches that turned them on were indeed limited to the control-room and conning tower.

Last edited by Fidd; 09-25-23 at 06:07 PM. Reason: addition of final paragraph.
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Old 09-25-23, 06:45 PM   #67
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52. Sea-gulls in coastal waters (in daylight) as an aid to detections and determining convoy heading:

In UK waters, and I'm sure in the Baltic, a great many sea-gulls will follow any boat, astern, looking for food in the wake. Periodically, they'll land and rest on any moving ship before flying again in its wake.

It occurs to me this could be used in game for a couple of subtle but useful purposes. Firstly that being around the stern of the ship, primarily, they could be used to aid determining if the convoy is heading away or towards the observer. They could also be used to draw the eye towards a periscope too long left up, or to a surfaced u-boat. Whilst no individual gull will be visible at 5km or so, a cloud of them following a ship or u-boat might well be. Finally there's the very evocative noise of their cries adding a bit of atmosphere. At night they usually return to land I believe, or if flat calm, roost on the sea. I'd recommend they be used in the three northern sea areas, but not the Biscay area?
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Old 09-26-23, 09:15 AM   #68
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53. "Silent running" - Using amplitude of player's voices in in-game comms to influence whether or not a detection is made via hydrophones.

Suppose you are moving at dead-slow past an escort, making no avoidable noise, and someone fails to whisper an order over in-game voice - maybe you now get detected!

Ideally this would apply to Discord as well, although I doubt this is possible? It would certainly add to the anxiety-level when operating close to escorts! Naturally, I'm not really saying that one person talking in normal conversational tones would get get the u-boat detected (unless he shouted), but rather, the general level of all voices talking, be applied, so that all non-essential speech ceases when operating close to escorts, and that whenever possible, a lower amplitude (volume) of speech be advisable....

Other noises inside the u-boat might also be triggers for detection: Prolonged blowing, or large degree of blowing, of ballast, trim, negative tanks. Contactor operation, bilge--pump, hatches and doors opening and closing, use of echolot on 1000m depth setting. (I gather it emits a louder sound on that setting, than on the 100m scale). The latter change, has a greater impact as you might at first think, as it means in depths between 100 and 185m, it might not be safe to use the echolot within 100m of the surface, or on the 1000m scale, meaning that an accurate plot of underwater location may be needed to track of position and therefore depth. as the available depth for the initial dive, with only use of the low-sound (100m scale) once at a depth of only 101m and deeper.

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Old 09-26-23, 11:55 AM   #69
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54. Collapsing bulkheads, boiler explosions, impacts of sinking ships with the sea-bed, steam-whistles sounded on torpedo strike, implosions due depth,"whoop whoop" sounds of attacking escorts.

There's a number of "3rd party" sound effects hearable either on hydrophones, or in the hull when submerged (subject range), or when surfaced, that could be used to complicate the sound-scape for hydrophone operators during the course of attack, and add to the atmosphere if surfaced and on the bridge when heard.

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Old 09-26-23, 03:21 PM   #70
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55. Observer mode on escorts or merchants.

Crew who are surplus to immediate needs on the u-boat - eg the dive officer during a convoy chase or surface attack, or most of the crew after a torpedo launch, can choose to change their point of view to that of a sailor on:

1. The nearest ship (with a key to cycle through other ships further away)
2. The nearest escort (with a key to cycle through other escorts further away)
3. The nearest Tribal (with a key to cycle through other Tribals further away)
4. The nearest Bittern (with a key to cycle through other Bitterns further away)
5. The nearest Flower-class (with a key to cycle through other Flowers further away)

If their ship is sunk, then they return to the u-boat, or otherwise can elect to do so at any point. During their absence, a bot is created in their place. A skipper can enter a command to bring all crew back to the u-boat if needed.
This would allow for players to experience the point of view within the convoy as torpedoes strike home. Or miss. This should be a lobby setting, so that the ability to 1st person view from within a convoy or escort can be suspended. (not all skippers will want crew disappearing in this fashion! If 3rd party DC explosions become a thing, then it might also allow for players to watch a DC attack on a u-boat. (but not their boat??)
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Old 09-27-23, 03:14 PM   #71
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56. Independently settable brightness for outside and at the eye-piece of periscope views, and another for inside. (two sliders)

I find that in order to set my brightness so that I can see masts (or even ships!) at night, I have to endure very very bright interior. It would be useful if there was a slider for the interior, and another for outside and periscope views, so that both can be optimised.
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Old 09-27-23, 03:15 PM   #72
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57. Gain to range placard at hydrophone station.

Requires no further explanation!
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Old 09-27-23, 06:32 PM   #73
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58. Other sea areas: Gibraltar strait, Atlantic in, and outside of, the "air-gap", the Med', US coastal, Scapa Flow.

These difference sea areas would allow for a whole range of different types of missions, from getting through the heavily patrolled Gib' strait, to getting into Scapa, to Atlantic warfare with, and without, aircraft (subject date). In addition to these more varied mission possibilities, there's also additional relatively shallow seas - and deep ones - further adding to the possible variety, especially on organised games such as 13th Flot, 9thFlot, Duyfken and Frost.

Developing these maps would also, potentially, be ground-work towards an eventual campaign mode which might make use of them, if designed with that in mind. Ability to rendezvous with "Milch-cows" at sea, of getting torpedoes/fuel oil and food from interned German shipping in "neutral" ports (both of these occurred for a time) would be a useful adjunct.
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Old 09-30-23, 04:54 PM   #74
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59. On cold days, in northerly latitudes eg Norwegian Sea or Baltic, have the crewman avatar emit the slightest amount of visible breath as they breathe. Tie the amount to the amplitude of their in game voice signal at any instant they are talking. If not talking, resume slight visible breath to interval of normal breathing. Increase rate if actively pinged. This effect should be VERY subtle. Disable visible breaths on bridge or on the casing.
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Old 10-02-23, 11:26 AM   #75
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60. Lip movement when talking: Using the amplitude of in game voice comms signal for a given speaker causes their lips to move in proportion to volume of speech. (those of you old enough will recall the kids program with puppets called "Thunderbirds" which used this same principle to cause the puppets to appear to be talking" synchronised with pre-recorded speech. The same thing could be done with our in game avatars in real-time.

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