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Old 10-16-2021, 08:23 AM   #1
SirCory
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Default Standard or full speed?

I've always wondered: in open waters en route to any destination, what's the speed you should be traveling at? I know that 10 knots is considered "economical," but should you travel faster and then patrol at the economical pace?

I know this is more of an opinion question. I'm trying to see what others do here.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:27 AM   #2
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I always transit at max economy in order to have maximum time on station. You never know how the patrol will develop, and I want to have as much fuel as possible to carry out whatever comes my way. There's no reward for getting there faster, so patrol flexibility and duration always win out over speed of advance.
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:17 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by SirCory View Post
I've always wondered: in open waters en route to any destination, what's the speed you should be traveling at? I know that 10 knots is considered "economical," but should you travel faster and then patrol at the economical pace?

I know this is more of an opinion question. I'm trying to see what others do here.
A lot of considerations...

What variant of SH 4 are you running? Stock or mod? If so mod, which mod? FOTRS? TMO? etc.


In stock, you have to tool around at basically harbor speed to get fuel economy, which is absent of reality as most boats cruised to and from patrol areas at standard speed, roughly 15.5 knots. Once in area, adjusted accordingly. Something we do not have to worry about in the sim is food and other supplies, crew morale (for most part) , meaning while fuel economy is important, it had to be balanced with other factors If move at such a slow speed it takes 30 days to get somewhere, how effective will vessel actually be on patrol. If were going to areas further away such as Yellow Sea, after a stop for fuel at Midway, may cruise at 12 knots or so to stretch fuel out, but still a decent rate of advance.


In TMO, you can cruise to and from most patrol areas at standard speed of 15.5 knots or lower it to 14 to save a little extra, to and from most patrol areas, patrol for weeks,, then return to port without fueling in most cases. This is because of the additional fuel added to reflect the fact that in real life, fuel was added to ballast tanks to give extra range.

I typically cruised at standard speed (again in TMO, brings to 15.5 knots) on surface during day to patrol area, slow to 11.5 at night en route. I have usually used 20-25 percent of fuel by time get to area, then around 25-30, depending on distance to port, will head home. This is to save fuel and not such an easy target for submerged marauding submarines, which can torpedo you in both FOTRS and TMO. Rarely do I have to head home due to fuel exhaustion.
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Old 10-16-2021, 02:26 PM   #4
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A lot of considerations...

What variant of SH 4 are you running? Stock or mod? If so mod, which mod? FOTRS? TMO? etc.


In stock, you have to tool around at basically harbor speed to get fuel economy, which is absent of reality as most boats cruised to and from patrol areas at standard speed, roughly 15.5 knots. Once in area, adjusted accordingly. Something we do not have to worry about in the sim is food and other supplies, crew morale (for most part) , meaning while fuel economy is important, it had to be balanced with other factors If move at such a slow speed it takes 30 days to get somewhere, how effective will vessel actually be on patrol. If were going to areas further away such as Yellow Sea, after a stop for fuel at Midway, may cruise at 12 knots or so to stretch fuel out, but still a decent rate of advance.


In TMO, you can cruise to and from most patrol areas at standard speed of 15.5 knots or lower it to 14 to save a little extra, to and from most patrol areas, patrol for weeks,, then return to port without fueling in most cases. This is because of the additional fuel added to reflect the fact that in real life, fuel was added to ballast tanks to give extra range.

I typically cruised at standard speed (again in TMO, brings to 15.5 knots) on surface during day to patrol area, slow to 11.5 at night en route. I have usually used 20-25 percent of fuel by time get to area, then around 25-30, depending on distance to port, will head home. This is to save fuel and not such an easy target for submerged marauding submarines, which can torpedo you in both FOTRS and TMO. Rarely do I have to head home due to fuel exhaustion.

Very good point. I've mostly been using FOTRSU, but I have been giving your new TMO updates a try. Two very different economical speeds. Historically, how often did they refuel/refit? How long were patrols supposed to be? I know this is a game, but I'm trying to get some historical play from my part.



Thanks for sharing your tips.
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:21 PM   #5
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FotRSU (and TMO probably) has a button on the menu for "Max Range at Current Speed" when you are on the NavMap menu (that is the Control Room view, of course, but the "Compass" button was pushed, and then the Max Range button highlighted):



Bubblehead1980 probably has that in his version also. While not 100% reliable, sometimes selling you short, and sometimes not close at all, it does give you an idea of when to expect "bingo fuel" for you to start back home. If you run TMO / RSRDC and put Traveler's Mod on top of that, you had better pay close attention to that function (Bleiente's Mod Pack also), since he made it even tougher. If you go slow, say "one motor speed" or Ahead One Third, you waste fuel, as well as time. If you go Ahead Full, you waste fuel. You might have to click on the hamburger menu below the throttle telegraph to bring up the Knot Meter, and from that, you can set a speed of 9 knots (or whatever), let the boat settle in on that, and see what that button shows again. The idea being, as Threadfin says, to stay on station as long as possible, to sink as many ships as possible within your assigned area. This is not as important in FotRSU as it stands now, since FotRSU is geared more toward "easy" initially. Plans call for an optional add-in to make the "boat ride" more "realistic" sometime in the future, but that will be a while from now...
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
FotRSU (and TMO probably) has a button on the menu for "Max Range at Current Speed" when you are on the NavMap menu (that is the Control Room view, of course, but the "Compass" button was pushed, and then the Max Range button highlighted):



Bubblehead1980 probably has that in his version also. While not 100% reliable, sometimes selling you short, and sometimes not close at all, it does give you an idea of when to expect "bingo fuel" for you to start back home. If you run TMO / RSRDC and put Traveler's Mod on top of that, you had better pay close attention to that function (Bleiente's Mod Pack also), since he made it even tougher. If you go slow, say "one motor speed" or Ahead One Third, you waste fuel, as well as time. If you go Ahead Full, you waste fuel. You might have to click on the hamburger menu below the throttle telegraph to bring up the Knot Meter, and from that, you can set a speed of 9 knots (or whatever), let the boat settle in on that, and see what that button shows again. The idea being, as Threadfin says, to stay on station as long as possible, to sink as many ships as possible within your assigned area. This is not as important in FotRSU as it stands now, since FotRSU is geared more toward "easy" initially. Plans call for an optional add-in to make the "boat ride" more "realistic" sometime in the future, but that will be a while from now...
Thank you for that. Are there any mods that would work with FOTRSU for this?
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:35 PM   #7
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I don't understand what you mean... that is FotRSU there with the button. When you press that, you will get a message from the "Navigator" in the text box to the effect of "Range is approximately 9850nm at current speed.", or whatever the case might be, based upon how much fuel is left. If you change the speed by even a pinch, it might affect that range quite a bit.
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:53 PM   #8
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I don't understand what you mean... that is FotRSU there with the button. When you press that, you will get a message from the "Navigator" in the text box to the effect of "Range is approximately 9850nm at current speed.", or whatever the case might be, based upon how much fuel is left. If you change the speed by even a pinch, it might affect that range quite a bit.
Sorry, that was awful on my part for not being clear lol. I totally understand how to do the range. I was asking about gas/mileage mods for FOTRSU...or if the mods for fuel usage only for TMO.
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:58 PM   #9
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Very mod-specific kind of stuff. Some things you won't notice, such as if using Vicker's interior mod with FotRSU, you might lose a coffee mug or clipboard laying on the table, but those have no real function in the game, just "short-cut" links. But the boat handling is very specific to the mod's way of the boat's configuration. You put a TMO mod in FotRSU, even though FotRSU is based upon TMO v1.7, and you would probably end up with a CTD, or at the least, a boat that sinks and kills your crew before their time.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:04 PM   #10
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[QUOTE=SirCory;2774695]Very good point. I've mostly been using FOTRSU, but I have been giving your new TMO updates a try. Two very different economical speeds. Historically, how often did they refuel/refit? How long were patrols supposed to be? I know this is a game, but I'm trying to get some historical play from my part.



Thanks for sharing your tips. QUOTE]


Ah, yes, use the maximum range at current speed, range to course end buttons on the Navigation Tool Bar at bottom of screen. There is also a time to course end, which gives ETA at current speed. Play around with these tools at different speeds and will help you decide. Make sure batteries are not charging as will give false estimate if they are. Not sure how I did not mention it. I remember this being one of my favorite features in the mods , huge oversight by UBI not to include these functions in stock. Thanks propbeanie for reminding me.

Historically, and of course there were times it varied as war demanded, but patrols were typically 30-60 days, I believe one was 91 days if I recall correctly . War changed and bases became available closer to the patrol areas, their duration decreased somewhat since transit times to and from were shorter,. Could depend on your area also, get into a busy area, may not be there that long, in real life, and sim due to the targets. Get to a slower area, may take a while to find something to attack, if anything.

Typical Pearl Harbor patrol for boats bound for Japanese Home Islands/Yellow East China Sea, Luzon Straits for most of the war was : Depart Pearl Harbor, stop at Midway to top off fuel tanks, make any last minute repairs etc, then proceed to patrol area , patrol until torpedoes, fuel expended, or otherwise ordered. Then they would head home, if in need of fuel would stop a Midway, if not, would just bypass and head to Pearl Harbor. Figure 10-15 days to patrol areas depending on distance, etc. , another 15-20 in patrol area, another 10-15 home, seems about average .


No problem, I understand as it's a simulation, not a game, operating historical/realistic manner keeps things interesting, its a huge part of the design of mods I work on.

So if you are in TMO, and want historical accuracy, cruise at standard to and from areas, adjust speed based on fuel estimates (nav tool bar) to 10-11.5 knots crusing in area. Plot out the distance to patrol areas and using the nav tool decide which speed is best if its a long trip. Like I said, a times can lower speed to 14 knots or 14.5 knots and still maintain standard speed, but that 1 less knot, as you will see, saves a lot of fuel. .

If not out of the way stop for fuel top off before heading to patrol area, if it makes sense do so. Out of Pearl, Midway or Johnston Island, depending where you are going, or if out of Fremantle, Australia, Exmouth Gulf, or Darwin if it makes more sense to stop there than Exmounth, sometimes it does depending on where boat is heading. For Brisbane based, Tulagi or Milne Bay are usually good refuel spots on the way to patrol area or en route back before making the trip to Brisbane.



Another advantage and also one used in real life, is your sub is not such an easy target at 15 knots vs 9 or 10. In TMO there are now submerged AI submarines (Well of course FOTRS as well , where I got them from) that will fire torpedoes at you. Contact with these is pretty rare but it can happen, one nearly got me last patrol. Fast moving, more difficult to target accurately. Kind of a pain but I started mapping out zig zag patterns so when I am at TC running along(never above 1056) , not sailing in a strait line and an easy target.

I am looking into altering (if possible) the "Search pattern" button in the navigation map, so could put in a zig zag pattern and save the trouble having to do it manually. Historically, boats eventually were equipped with a motor driven device that manipulated the wheel, so ship automatically zigged, saving helmsman a lot of work. They could preset a pattern. This change in TMO would reflect this device

Plus if on surface and get an aircraft coming in, you will dive faster as already have some speed on.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:08 PM   #11
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Very mod-specific kind of stuff. Some things you won't notice, such as if using Vicker's interior mod with FotRSU, you might lose a coffee mug or clipboard laying on the table, but those have no real function in the game, just "short-cut" links. But the boat handling is very specific to the mod's way of the boat's configuration. You put a TMO mod in FotRSU, even though FotRSU is based upon TMO v1.7, and you would probably end up with a CTD, or at the least, a boat that sinks and kills your crew before their time.
Thank you for your patience with explaining that to me. I continue to focus more on surviving than anything else haha
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Old 10-17-2021, 10:26 AM   #12
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Thank you for your patience with explaining that to me. I continue to focus more on surviving than anything else haha

lol no problem, always glad to assist. I would suggest reading some of the submarine memoirs, all are excellent. "Clear the Bridge!" by Rear Admiral Richard O Kane (CO of Tang, XO on Wahoo) , Wahoo! (O Kane) "Thunder Below" by Admiral Eugene Fluckey(CO of Barb, possibly the finest WW II submarine memoir. I persuaded my girlfriend to read it and not something she would normally read, but enjoying it it seems. Fluckey was an excellent writer),Silent Running by Admiral James Calvert (Junior Officer on USS Jack most of the war, rose to XO before end of war) Silent Victory by Clay Bair, Submarine Operations in WW II by Theodore Roscoe (some info is dated as was published many years ago, but an excellent work) and for the(key) enlisted man's perspective, Torpedoman by Ron Smith. Smith served as a Torpedoman on Seal SS-183 in aft torpedo room, was aboard for terrible depth charge attack in July 1943, when forced to surface, expecting to fight it out.

Can, especially in the mods apply a lot of what will learn in those books and apply it in the sim, especially in mods such as TMO, plus provides excellent knowledge base.
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Old 10-17-2021, 10:59 AM   #13
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lol no problem, always glad to assist. I would suggest reading some of the submarine memoirs, all are excellent. "Clear the Bridge!" by Rear Admiral Richard O Kane (CO of Tang, XO on Wahoo) , Wahoo! (O Kane) "Thunder Below" by Admiral Eugene Fluckey(CO of Barb, possibly the finest WW II submarine memoir. I persuaded my girlfriend to read it and not something she would normally read, but enjoying it it seems. Fluckey was an excellent writer),Silent Running by Admiral James Calvert (Junior Officer on USS Jack most of the war, rose to XO before end of war) Silent Victory by Clay Bair, Submarine Operations in WW II by Theodore Roscoe (some info is dated as was published many years ago, but an excellent work) and for the(key) enlisted man's perspective, Torpedoman by Ron Smith. Smith served as a Torpedoman on Seal SS-183 in aft torpedo room, was aboard for terrible depth charge attack in July 1943, when forced to surface, expecting to fight it out.

Can, especially in the mods apply a lot of what will learn in those books and apply it in the sim, especially in mods such as TMO, plus provides excellent knowledge base.

Ah, a list of books! This is superb. Been looking for things to help spruce up my knowledge. Much appreciated!
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