[TEC] Did a manual refit on my Balao, worked fine except...

[Bubblehead1980]

In head off the ugly upgrade bug in TMO which takes away radar, and makes it non functional after, when returned from patrol on January 15 1944(upgrade scheduled in sim for 1-25-1944, so would likley get it after next patrol, if ever) , while in port, I edited the activeplayerunits file in the career save file to the late war Balao, which adds MS 32 paint scheme and a 40 MM forward instead of 20 MM,so now have 40 MM forward and Aft.

I copied it exactly as it should be, as worked fine on other boats did this with, the crew slots for fore 40 MM show up and in the file it is listed as 40 MM, but when go to equipment screen while in port, shows a 20 mm forward and gives not option to upgrade? wth? lol

Also interesting, when start the actual sim, have a fully functional 40 MM gun forward, which can be manned by AI and myself. lol how do remedy this to reflect true loadout in the equipment menu?

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

In head off the ugly upgrade bug in TMO which takes away radar, and makes it non functional after, when returned from patrol on January 15 1944(upgrade scheduled in sim for 1-25-1944, so would likley get it after next patrol, if ever) , while in port, I edited the activeplayerunits file in the career save file to the late war Balao, which adds MS 32 paint scheme and a 40 MM forward instead of 20 MM,so now have 40 MM forward and Aft.

I copied it exactly as it should be, as worked fine on other boats did this with, the crew slots for fore 40 MM show up and in the file it is listed as 40 MM, but when go to equipment screen while in port, shows a 20 mm forward and gives not option to upgrade? wth? lol

Also interesting, when start the actual sim, have a fully functional 40 MM gun forward, which can be manned by AI and myself. lol how do remedy this to reflect true loadout in the equipment menu?

Maybe an edited equip. screen for in port, reflecting the change to 40MM's both fore & aft, per chance... just a guess...

Hopefully, propbeanie can pop in for a moment & cross calibrate that.... assessment.



M. M.

[propbeanie]

Ehhh... Save file editing can be "dangerous" to the Save file byte counter, and VERY situational and boat specific. Two different players can have the same boat, same date, and two different load-outs of gear, and not just by player design, but can be based upon renown score as well as Patrol / Career rating. Check-out some of the posts KaleunMarco has done, across OM, DW, Stock, GFO, FotRSU, as well as TMO in its various flavors. I don't know if he has studied Bubblehead1980's mix or not, but it would most likely be like a TMO / RSRDC combo in the "scoring" system. Guns are listed in several locations, so unless you are only missing the crew slots (AdditionalRepository entries), there could be several places that require editing. I encountered the gun itself, while listed in the files, was incomplete, and had to be edited, as found in the FotRSU updated "NewColetrainsAndOthersDGfix.pdf" file in the "Support / HowTo" folder of the FotRSU mod. In that same folder is "aankerSaveEdits.pd", which is a pdf most folks base their save file edits on, KaleunMarco has several in the Downloads section of SubSim here (search on his UserName). We also have an "Of Refits.pdf" file copy of Ducimus's SubSim posting of "Of Refits, New Commands, Rank, and Retirements" in the "Support / ExtraInfo" folder of FotRSU. As in the original FotRSU proposal, anyone can borrow anything from FotRSU that we did, such as those pdf files (which these 3 were originally the work of Coletrains, wolfeinshamer and propbeanie for the first pdf, and aanker and Ducimus respectively for the other two), so long as proper credit is given to the SubSim Team and others. Other mods from the original portion of FOTRS is the AOTD_MadMax team's work, and while we had carte blanche on their use courtesy of MadMax and his team, everything was edited for FotRSU mod compliance by various members of the mod team, and proper credit should also be given all of them, as well as all of the add-in mods, as found in the Support / VariousAddInReadMe folder. I am almost certain KaleunMarco would say the same about his documentation downloads. A person could also combine all of that info into a solid pdf "article" if so desired, for a more concise reference.

Anyway, there are several reasons for missing guns and or crews, and / or the radar and even the sonar from the boats, especially if a conning tower upgrade comes along. We have found an issue in Stock as well as FotRSU, and I am almost certain most mods, that has been there most of the life of the game concerning radar "upgrades". As has been mentioned previoiusly, when a conning tower upgrade comes along, the radar (and sonar) falls back to the "default" sets for the date of the upgrade. Unfortunately, what we have found, is that a conning tower upgrade can progress the same way as a new boat upgrade, if it was available instead, in that you can indeed be awarded a conning tower too early, completely ignoring date restrictions, just like you can receive a new boat too early. This is one of several situations where there will be a failure of the radar, sonar, guns AND crew to initialize properly. Thankfully, this is rather a rare situation, but I have had it happen in career testing with high-scoring "seeded" missions, where I can guarantee myself a high score every time I go out (just so long as I don't get sunk), similar to the way Ducimus did his tests.

One of the BIG, rather consistent issues is the conning tower radar type mount, versus the radar antenna shaft type, versus the node in the conning tower dat file. Look at some of the conning towers dat files in the Object folders, and notice that some of the early conns use the R04 node, and a "Supported" radar, and that some of the 2nd and or 3rd conns change to R01, and maybe an unsupported radar antenna shaft mount (the "support" is in the shears). This was the main reason CapnScurvy changed the SalmonSargo's 2nd conn to the Gato 2nd conn. While it worked in the radar mount, so long as everything progressed according to the "schedule", it could still fail, and the cabling attached to conning tower and deck was "attached" in the middle of a hatch. We thought we had that licked by putting the original 2nd conn back on the boat, and changing the radar shaft, but alas, it can STILL fail... This has us hung-up right now on progressing further with the next release of FotRSU. We will have a couple of options available - hopefully shortly - for testing, including getting rid of the flagpole on the back of the Gato 3 & 4 conn for when the player mounts 40mm AA guns that foul the pole - but I diverge and digress (too much coffee??). A person should tread lightly though if editing the Save folder, or having players rely upon the technique.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Ehhh... Save file editing can be "dangerous" to the Save file byte counter, and VERY situational and boat specific. Two different players can have the same boat, same date, and two different load-outs of gear, and not just by player design, but can be based upon renown score as well as Patrol / Career rating. Check-out some of the posts KaleunMarco has done, across OM, DW, Stock, GFO, FotRSU, as well as TMO in its various flavors. I don't know if he has studied Bubblehead1980's mix or not, but it would most likely be like a TMO / RSRDC combo in the "scoring" system. Guns are listed in several locations, so unless you are only missing the crew slots (AdditionalRepository entries), there could be several places that require editing. I encountered the gun itself, while listed in the files, was incomplete, and had to be edited, as found in the FotRSU updated "NewColetrainsAndOthersDGfix.pdf" file in the "Support / HowTo" folder of the FotRSU mod. In that same folder is "aankerSaveEdits.pd", which is a pdf most folks base their save file edits on, KaleunMarco has several in the Downloads section of SubSim here (search on his UserName). We also have an "Of Refits.pdf" file copy of Ducimus's SubSim posting of "Of Refits, New Commands, Rank, and Retirements" in the "Support / ExtraInfo" folder of FotRSU. As in the original FotRSU proposal, anyone can borrow anything from FotRSU that we did, such as those pdf files (which these 3 were originally the work of Coletrains, wolfeinshamer and propbeanie for the first pdf, and aanker and Ducimus respectively for the other two), so long as proper credit is given to the SubSim Team and others. Other mods from the original portion of FOTRS is the AOTD_MadMax team's work, and while we had carte blanche on their use courtesy of MadMax and his team, everything was edited for FotRSU mod compliance by various members of the mod team, and proper credit should also be given all of them, as well as all of the add-in mods, as found in the Support / VariousAddInReadMe folder. I am almost certain KaleunMarco would say the same about his documentation downloads. A person could also combine all of that info into a solid pdf "article" if so desired, for a more concise reference.

Anyway, there are several reasons for missing guns and or crews, and / or the radar and even the sonar from the boats, especially if a conning tower upgrade comes along. We have found an issue in Stock as well as FotRSU, and I am almost certain most mods, that has been there most of the life of the game concerning radar "upgrades". As has been mentioned previoiusly, when a conning tower upgrade comes along, the radar (and sonar) falls back to the "default" sets for the date of the upgrade. Unfortunately, what we have found, is that a conning tower upgrade can progress the same way as a new boat upgrade, if it was available instead, in that you can indeed be awarded a conning tower too early, completely ignoring date restrictions, just like you can receive a new boat too early. This is one of several situations where there will be a failure of the radar, sonar, guns AND crew to initialize properly. Thankfully, this is rather a rare situation, but I have had it happen in career testing with high-scoring "seeded" missions, where I can guarantee myself a high score every time I go out (just so long as I don't get sunk), similar to the way Ducimus did his tests.

One of the BIG, rather consistent issues is the conning tower radar type mount, versus the radar antenna shaft type, versus the node in the conning tower dat file. Look at some of the conning towers dat files in the Object folders, and notice that some of the early conns use the R04 node, and a "Supported" radar, and that some of the 2nd and or 3rd conns change to R01, and maybe an unsupported radar antenna shaft mount (the "support" is in the shears). This was the main reason CapnScurvy changed the SalmonSargo's 2nd conn to the Gato 2nd conn. While it worked in the radar mount, so long as everything progressed according to the "schedule", it could still fail, and the cabling attached to conning tower and deck was "attached" in the middle of a hatch. We thought we had that licked by putting the original 2nd conn back on the boat, and changing the radar shaft, but alas, it can STILL fail... This has us hung-up right now on progressing further with the next release of FotRSU. We will have a couple of options available - hopefully shortly - for testing, including getting rid of the flagpole on the back of the Gato 3 & 4 conn for when the player mounts 40mm AA guns that foul the pole - but I diverge and digress (too much coffee??). A person should tread lightly though if editing the Save folder, or having players rely upon the technique.

I am careful and always back up, its the only short cut have found around progressing a boat through time periods getting proper refits. Like I said, everything worked fine, gun slots are there, both crew appear, the gun is there and works. Only issue is it still shows my 20 MM forward on the equipment screen and wont let me "upgrade" it on the equipment screen., yet they are there and work fine when I go on patrol lol.

The paint scheme was same thing, I left port and realized only the conning tower was MS 32, rest was still wartime default black/gray. So I exited, reloaded and applied it manually in the equipment screen in port, all is fine now and shows the measure 32 paint scheme applied. lol just not the forward 40 MM.

I upgraded the Salmon class manually, no problems.

I am wondering if I because upgrade it prior to 1-26-1944, that created issue because forward 40 MM for Balao is not supposed to be available before then.

Any idea what files to check? its somewhere but in the .upc is says available in 1942 lol which is not correct, because the 40 mm is not available until 1943 when Balao appears on scene and its the aft mount, not the fore.

[mazzi]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I am wondering if I because upgrade it prior to 1-26-1944, that created issue because forward 40 MM for Balao is not supposed to be available before then.

Any idea what files to check? its somewhere but in the .upc is says available in 1942 lol which is not correct, because the 40 mm is not available until 1943 when Balao appears on scene and its the aft mount, not the fore.

See file UpgradePack.upc

[UpgradePack 10]
ID= Upack40mmSingle
NameDisplayable= 40mm AA Gun
FunctionalType= UpFTypeWeaponFlak
UpgradePackSlotType= USHeavyAA
Type=NULL
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptionCurrent= 1943-02-01, NULL, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions1= 1943-02-01, 1943-12-31, 400
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions2= 1944-01-01, NULL, 300
IDLinkUpgradePackElements= 40mmSingleUS                 <------------!!!!!!!
Info=40MMSingleInfo
Notes=40MMSingleNotes

See 40mmSingleUS in Weapons.upc - what is the date?
40mm is available until December 1942, then 1942-12-02 will not give you anything with an upgrade in the port.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by mazzi

See file UpgradePack.upc

[UpgradePack 10]
ID= Upack40mmSingle
NameDisplayable= 40mm AA Gun
FunctionalType= UpFTypeWeaponFlak
UpgradePackSlotType= USHeavyAA
Type=NULL
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptionCurrent= 1943-02-01, NULL, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions1= 1943-02-01, 1943-12-31, 400
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions2= 1944-01-01, NULL, 300
IDLinkUpgradePackElements= 40mmSingleUS                 <------------!!!!!!!
Info=40MMSingleInfo
Notes=40MMSingleNotes

See 40mmSingleUS in Weapons.upc - what is the date?
40mm is available until December 1942, then 1942-12-02 will not give you anything with an upgrade in the port.

Following the attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, the existing 1.1" (28 mm) quad mount and .50 caliber machine guns were determined to be inadequate against modern aircraft, and their replacement by 40 mm Bofors and 20 mm Oerlikon weapons was accelerated. The water-cooled version was used almost exclusively by the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard. The 40 mm quadruple mount was developed by essentially mounting two twin mounts side by side. A major improvement was the addition of power operation to both twin and quadruple mounts. Essentially all US naval mountings were twin or quadruple. 40 mm weapons were eventually mounted on virtually every naval and armed auxiliary vessel larger than a small landing craft.

Exactly when the 400mm's, began actively being used to replace the 1.1's & the .50 cal's... can't find a definitive date... though in other source material I was able to.. locate, did make mention that the older 1.1's & .50 cal's, were still in use on some ships. Just what ships, am not sure of... the article, didn't clarify on that score...

Hope this info helps...



M. M.

Sources :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors...#U.S._versions

U.S. versions section of this, &...

https://www.museumofamericanarmor.com/blog/40mmbofors

Info on the 1.1's & the .50 cal's, found here :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1.1-inch/75-caliber_gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning

[mazzi]

Originally Posted by mazzi

See 40mmSingleUS in Weapons.upc - what is the date?
40mm is available until December 1942, then 1942-12-02 will not give you anything with an upgrade in the port.

File Weapons.upc:

[Weapon 3]
ID= 40mmSingleUS
NameDisplayable= Single 40mm AA Gun
FunctionalType= WpFlak 
WeaponInterval= 1941-12-01, 1942-12-01       <------------!!!!!!
WeaponSlotType= NULL
AmmoTypesAccepted= 40mmAPUS, 40mmHEUS, 40mmAAUS
AmmoTypeLoaded= NULL
AmmoMagazineRemaining= 0           ;Not used
AmmoMagazineSize= 4
LeadersSlots=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots= 2
ExternalLinkName3D= 40mm_Single_soclu
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.2,    0,    1,    1,    Jam,            0,    0,    NULL,    1,    0.3,    0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0,    1,    0,    0.5,    1,    Chamber Explosion,    50,    5,    NULL,    1,    2,    10 ;skill over 1 for unserviceable/destroyed gun

there will be no upgrade in 1943, 1944 or 1945.
or so
WeaponInterval= 1941-12-01, 1945-12-01
or so
WeaponInterval= NULL, NULL

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mazzi

File Weapons.upc:

[Weapon 3]
ID= 40mmSingleUS
NameDisplayable= Single 40mm AA Gun
FunctionalType= WpFlak 
WeaponInterval= 1941-12-01, 1942-12-01       <------------!!!!!!
WeaponSlotType= NULL
AmmoTypesAccepted= 40mmAPUS, 40mmHEUS, 40mmAAUS
AmmoTypeLoaded= NULL
AmmoMagazineRemaining= 0           ;Not used
AmmoMagazineSize= 4
LeadersSlots=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots= 2
ExternalLinkName3D= 40mm_Single_soclu
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.2,    0,    1,    1,    Jam,            0,    0,    NULL,    1,    0.3,    0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0,    1,    0,    0.5,    1,    Chamber Explosion,    50,    5,    NULL,    1,    2,    10 ;skill over 1 for unserviceable/destroyed gun

there will be no upgrade in 1943, 1944 or 1945.
or so
WeaponInterval= 1941-12-01, 1945-12-01
or so
WeaponInterval= NULL, NULL

So its confusing because while those dates are there, 40 MM is not available until 1943. Balao's come standard with one aft and Gato's are supposed to have an upgrade and I believe if start with Gato in June 1943, itll be aft mounted as well. Those dates make no sense to me.

So I had that issue with USS Skate as mentioned in original post. Lost boat on patrol, so started new career with Tang in January 1944, I moved the date for the MS42 upgrade , which comes with mounting the 40 MM forward from 1-26-1944 to 1-1-1944 so when started career on Jan 2, I had the desired paint and gun mountings.