FOTRSU report (can't access main thread)

[pbar1469]

Hi all.
Sorry for posting out of the FOTRSU thread, but for some reason I keep getting http error 500.

So, I'm on my third patrol out of Pearl, in my Tambor, I was sent to Marshall Is for 5 days, but no contacts. Then off to another position in the Marshall as well, and then given free reign to patrol.
Given that Truk was close by, and I previously did a nice incursion to Dublon port, decided to check out the area around.

Somewhere near the southern end of the island, start getting lot of warship contacts, some fast, some slow. Checked out a task group of sub chasers, but decided against it. Then detected a lone warship.
Upon slow approach, I find this Akikaze class, stopped, just there...

Decided to engage, and given that was stationary, it was an easy kill.
Assumed that it might have engine problems or something.

As soon as it sinks, immediately got two more contacts.
Also warships. Also stationary!
That was too weird, but went and scoped them.
I could not believe it!
Escort Carrier Akitsu class and Auxiliary Tender Jingei class...

Now, obviously I could NOT ignore this. Xmas came too early, or maybe too late?

So, question is, why were they just standing there? No escorts, nothing!
Is this something historical that I happened to bump into?
Or is it some issue with the Campaign scripts?

I've dreamed of bagging my first carrier, but... maybe not like this?
Still, awesome feeling!

Thanks

Pedro

P.S.: Tried to add a screenshot with more info, but for some reason, doesn't show. Date of encounter is May, 23, 1942, Location is Long 151 21 E, Lat 7 07 N (destroyer), and Long 151 27 E, Lat 7 11 N for the big boys.

[Zero Niner]

That would be Truk Lagoon I believe, which was a major Japanese base in the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuuk_Lagoon

I've snuck into the harbour a few times in my various careers, I've seen an CVE anda Yamato class BB anchored there; I also sank a Soryu class there once.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by pbar1469

Given that Truk was close by, and I previously did a nice incursion to Dublon port, decided to check out the area around.

Upon slow approach, I find this Akikaze class, stopped, just there...

Also warships. Also stationary!
That was too weird, but went and scoped them.

So, question is, why were they just standing there? No escorts, nothing!

firstly, welcome to Subsim , and thanks for joining!

you encountered the Truk ANCHORAGE. (lol)
that means ships are parked there for a lot of different reasons that are not intuitively obvious within the game.
the mod creators placed those parked-ships there to emulate an anchorage, similar to Pearl harbor before 12/7/1941.
you may find that Truk will become less accessible as the war proceeds due to sub nets and mine fields. so, mind how you go.

lastly, the graphic link that you embedded displayed fine when copy-pasted on its own, so there might be a problem with the way Google presents itself in the link. i suggest using a free image hosting site such as Imgbb.com. you will need to establish an id/password but you are not required to pay fees unless you want to. i have been using it, free, for a number of years. and, no i am not in any-way-shape-or-form connected to Imgbb.com.

good luck, Herr Kaleun.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by pbar1469

Hi all.
Sorry for posting out of the FOTRSU thread, but for some reason I keep getting http error 500.

So, I'm on my third patrol out of Pearl, in my Tambor, I was sent to Marshall Is for 5 days, but no contacts. Then off to another position in the Marshall as well, and then given free reign to patrol.
Given that Truk was close by, and I previously did a nice incursion to Dublon port, decided to check out the area around.

Somewhere near the southern end of the island, start getting lot of warship contacts, some fast, some slow. Checked out a task group of sub chasers, but decided against it. Then detected a lone warship.
Upon slow approach, I find this Akikaze class, stopped, just there...

Decided to engage, and given that was stationary, it was an easy kill.
Assumed that it might have engine problems or something.

As soon as it sinks, immediately got two more contacts.
Also warships. Also stationary!
That was too weird, but went and scoped them.
I could not believe it!
Escort Carrier Akitsu class and Auxiliary Tender Jingei class...

Now, obviously I could NOT ignore this. Xmas came too early, or maybe too late?

So, question is, why were they just standing there? No escorts, nothing!
Is this something historical that I happened to bump into?
Or is it some issue with the Campaign scripts?

I've dreamed of bagging my first carrier, but... maybe not like this?
Still, awesome feeling!

Thanks

Pedro

P.S.: Tried to add a screenshot with more info, but for some reason, doesn't show. Date of encounter is May, 23, 1942, Location is Long 151 21 E, Lat 7 07 N (destroyer), and Long 151 27 E, Lat 7 11 N for the big boys.

I don't know why you would get that error in the FotRSU thread, but not get it here, since it is all the same site and same 'security'... but oh well...

In the meantime, seeing as you are not in the anchorage itself with where your sunk ship icons are, can you tell me what their headings were when you encountered them, please? Was there any movement at all from any of the ships in the area, besides the Hunter/Killer Group? (Those can be nasty, btw.) I have been looking at this all morning while doing other edits, and I cannot find any groups with those two ships in them together. The Akikaze is in the "Frigate" group, and usually is associated with harbors and "light" escort duties of small convoys. The Akitsu and tender would generally be part of a task force, and would have DD as escorts. There are a few Convoys that do have a seaplane tender, and later-war, some have a CVE or CVL, on a small percentage chance, but most of those are over by China and Formosa to Japanese waters. If you can give those ships' headings, that would really help, although I am not finding anything like them "parked" at Truk. We did have issues on the east side of the atoll last year, where a hunter/killer group would spawn facing north, and after spawning, the group would head south out of the atoll, but to make that "turn", the group went through a group of "parked" ships ("docked"), and that would "bump" the ships to where they would be stopped just east of the reef east of Dubion. Took forever to find that... this would be similar...

However, just to be certain, which version of the mod are you using? Any mods added to that? When you went to activate the mod(s), was your game installed outside of any of the Windows "Program Files" folders? After you activated the mod, did you then make certain that the "Read-only" attribute on the SH4.exe file was "off", and that LAA or 4Gig Patch were properly applied? Also after activation, did you empty the Save folder (or build a new MultiSH4 folder), such that the mod was then cleanly, properly activated and fully applied to the SH4 game? Were there other ships besides the three you describe that were standing still? Thanks

[pbar1469]

Hi all.

First of all thanks so much to everyone trying to help!

Propbeanie:
So, unfortunately I've tried to reload the save game just before the sinking of the destroyer, but for some reason, after a few seconds (about 30), I get a CTD no matter what... Ill keep trying, any recomendations?

From memory, the destroyer was pointing towards NE (can't be sure though).
The other two were a lot simpler, as I approached them from the south. They were more or less with their bows between NW and SW. Sorry I can't be more precise, I do have to get into the habbit of taking screenshots before the attacks.

As for the rest of the information requested, here it is:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\SH4\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v1.7p3
Nippon Maru v1.6c
Nihon Kaigun v1.1b
Combined Roster
399_NoScrollNavMap
451_TMOstyle_NavMapDots
451a_TMOstyle_NavMapDots for Nippon Maru
451b_TMOstyle_NavMapDots for Nihon Kaigun
452_TMOstyle_NavMapShipMarks
453_TMOstyle_NavMapAirMarks
801_UMark Invisible
EAX_SoundSim_FOTRSU_1.7
SEA_LIFE_SH4_PACIFIC_FOTRSU17
no trembling


Read only of SH4.exe is confirmed off, LAA patch is confirmed applied.
No other ships are standing still.

Thanks!
I'll keep trying to get more data.

Pedro

[pbar1469]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

...
i suggest using a free image hosting site such as Imgbb.com. you will need to establish an id/password but you are not required to pay fees unless you want to. i have been using it, free, for a number of years. and, no i am not in any-way-shape-or-form connected to Imgbb.com.
...

Thanks, will do!

[pbar1469]

Does this help?
Taken from the save game:

[CareerTrack 1.CareerStatusSave 26]
ID=ID
Reason=CSS_UnitDestroyed
NameDisplayable=Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP DE Akikaze#1
CurrentDate=1942-04-30 09:09:00
LocationName=
Location=0,0
TargetLocation=-3.77678,5.59076e+031
UnitDestroyed=DEAkikaze,Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP DE Akikaze#1
EUnitType=2

[CareerTrack 1.CareerStatusSave 27]
ID=ID
Reason=CSS_UnitDestroyed
NameDisplayable=Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP CVE Akitsu#1
CurrentDate=1942-04-30 09:09:00
LocationName=
Location=0,0
TargetLocation=-10.3706,5.59076e+031
UnitDestroyed=CVEAkitsu,Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP CVE Akitsu#1
EUnitType=8

[CareerTrack 1.CareerStatusSave 28]
ID=ID
Reason=CSS_UnitDestroyed
NameDisplayable=Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP Sub Tender#1
CurrentDate=1942-04-30 09:09:00
LocationName=
Location=0,0
TargetLocation=-7.17149,5.59076e+031
UnitDestroyed=JPSubTender,Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP Sub Tender#1
EUnitType=100


Interesting that the UnitDestroyed mentions "Sink Marshall Islands", but the situation was in the Truk Islands, but maybe its just a placeholder.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by pbar1469

...
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\SH4\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v1.7p3
Nippon Maru v1.6c
Nihon Kaigun v1.1b
Combined Roster
399_NoScrollNavMap
451_TMOstyle_NavMapDots
451a_TMOstyle_NavMapDots for Nippon Maru
451b_TMOstyle_NavMapDots for Nihon Kaigun
452_TMOstyle_NavMapShipMarks
453_TMOstyle_NavMapAirMarks
801_UMark Invisible
EAX_SoundSim_FOTRSU_1.7
SEA_LIFE_SH4_PACIFIC_FOTRSU17
no trembling
...

First, some mod changes: Probably not a problem, but the "Dots" for Nip & Nihon should be after the other 452 & 453 mods. That way, you're certain that the 452 & 3 mods do not overwrite anything of the Nippon & Nihon Dots mods. As for Sea Life, someone had mentioned previously that there was the possibility of a CTD from it. I am not certain of the compatibility of the No Trembling mod. If that's all it changes, it should be good, but some changes in the environmental files alter other things also. We'll try and run that one through the "labs" here and see what it does, if anything, besides the underwater view. Basically speaking though, you should be OK with what you have.

One question still remains unanswered though: Had you emptied the Save folder prior to starting SH4 after applying FotRSU? If you did not, that may be contributing to your not being able to Load the Save game.

Originally Posted by pbar1469

...
[CareerTrack 1.CareerStatusSave 26]
ID=ID
Reason=CSS_UnitDestroyed
NameDisplayable=Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP DE Akikaze#1
CurrentDate=1942-04-30 09:09:00
LocationName=
Location=0,0
TargetLocation=-3.77678,5.59076e+031
UnitDestroyed=DEAkikaze,Sink Marshall Islands 01_JP DE Akikaze#1
EUnitType=2
...

That is one of the multitude of idiosyncrasies found in the game. Each of those entries has a Header between the brackets [], so why they feel the need to "identify" each vessel listed by that AND the mission name is beyond me. It eats the computer memory... lol - but that's what those are, the "Sink Marshall Islands 01" part was your original assignment, and that stays with your data the whole time you are out there on that patrol. We are presently conducting experiments with that "tag" portion removed from the game, to see if it affects anything, since we have seen instances where the game has run out of character slots in the data structure, apparently, and the ship name gets truncated. Perhaps this is another "hole" that allows for sunk ships to drop off the players list? We hope to find out. Notice though, that there is a "NameDisplayable" and also a "UnitDestroyed" entry... The "DEAkikaze" portion of the "UnitDestroyed" is the UnitClass from the Roster config file, which is fine, but why do they have to do the "Name" again?... lol - anyway... I'll try to find that Sea Life link, if you can let us know about whether you emptied the Save folder, please.

Edit: PS - I did find a set of "suspects" yesterday for those ships in the 41a_Jap_HarbourTraffic layer, but they are supposed to be "parked" ("DockedShip=true") at Moen docks on the IJN dock... the only way those would get all of the way out where you found them is if something came along and "ran into them" ('collision detected') prior to your arrival and their "spawning" physically into the game. I am still looking for that suspect or suspects...

[pbar1469]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

One question still remains unanswered though: Had you emptied the Save folder prior to starting SH4 after applying FotRSU? If you did not, that may be contributing to your not being able to Load the Save game.

Hello propbeanie.
Thanks for that!
Yes I did, prior to starting the campaign, I completely delete the save folder (had some previous runs of TMO), then installed all the mods, and then run SH4.exe.

Meanwhile, I've also tried emptying the mods, i.e., leaving only what is "vanilla" , that is, FOTRSU plus Nippon Maru and Nihon Kaigun. Still no luck.

Interestingly enough, if I warp time as soon as the game save loads, the CTD comes even faster, which makes me think that the game is adding or creating something into the world that makes the CTD.
Or I have RAM (16Gb) issues, eheh. Or SSD. OR WINDOWS 10!

There is another save game, previous to the one being discussed, that seems to work fine without CTD's, but it was around 2 or 3 days (game time) before
I arrived to Truk. I can try to "replicate" my patrol to see if I find them.

I can also send you the save game, would that help?

[pbar1469]

Hey propbeanie!

Good news, I kinda reproduced the situation.
The way I got it to load the save game was counter intuitive!
Previously I was trying to load from a "clean" SH4, that is, reboot pc, start sh4, load save game. Always CTD.

This time I loaded another save game (the one before reaching Truk), and when I failed to find anything in that area in that date, I exited to the SH Main Menu, and reloaded the crooked save game from there, and guess what? It didn't CTD!
But strangely enough, all my navigation marking were gone!
Which was ok, because I had the sonar contact to follow!

And this is what I found:



The Carrier! But not with the Tender, with a small escort instead. And not stationary, but instead moving very very slowly.
The position is strange, because it's not where I found them the first time.
This position is where I found the first stationary destroyer.

But hey, that's a start!

Here is an overview of the situation and my annotations regarding positions:



These are from the subchaser group I escaped contact before sinking the stationary destroyer:



And this is a top view of the Carrier. The top of the image is EAST as I followed with F12 camera, maintaining sub heading:



There seems to be something wrong with her, as you can see from the water level. Also the game was playing "sinking" sounds. And yes, she was like that when I first found and sinked her:



And this is the Tender aerial view, also top of image is North:




Hope that this helps!!

Pedro

[propbeanie]

Wow - thanks for that pbar1469. I am going to say then, that you have "confirmed" where the wayward "static" ships came from, and that is Moen, since they are generally on the same heading as when they were parked. The Tender could be from several sources, and depends upon the heading it had when you found it earlier. First, the set-up at Moen (superimposed image from several grabs):




Note the ship Classes there. The CVE is on the outside of the dock. So here is a possible scenario, where the "Docked" ships are 'compelled' to move by an 'intervening' force:




The 41a_Jap_TaskForce_010 is highlighted there, and the seaplane tender highlighted in the Group Contents box upper-left.

It does not take much to "force" a docked ship to move, unfortunately. Something as small as a Daihatsu barge or a JP MTB could collide with them - and its collision with the big ships may have been caused by another, earlier collision, that put the 'instigator' off-course to collide with the Docked ships. All of this is "tracked" by the game in a database, and nothing is "drawn" in the 3D world, since you are not close enough yet. The laws of physics do not apply here either, being "modeled" somewhat crudely by the game. It does take seemingly forever for a ship to stop when it does not have any "motor" power applied to it. Hence, that is why you see them so far out from their dock. There is a "Part 3" to this also though.

So "Part 1" is the "collider" ship getting off-course and impacting the ships at the dock. It most likely would not be a US airplane attack during this time period, so a Japanese ship of some sort. "Part 2" is after the collision, the "Docked" ships doing their drifting. Note that their path most likely takes them across land, which would "stop" them ~IF~ you were close enough and they then spawn into the 3D world. However, they are not "real" yet, and just being tracked in the database, so "obstacles" do not matter (like the dock earlier, for the "instigator" ship - it went right through the dock in the database, with only the collisions between ships being tracked). "Part 3" is an as yet undetermined source, but a likely suspect is illustrated in the above image with the seaplane tender coming from a Task Force that generates there at Truk Atoll. However, there are several other potential sources of that particular ship in other groups that do traverse the same area. Whatever the source, there is another collision southwest of Truk in that area, and that is most likely why the carrier was nearly sunk. If the tender was the source of that collision, it could well have already sunk when you went there the 2nd time, besides the fact that the game does not quite play everything back for a 2nd or 3rd look at things like that in a Save file. "Chance" comes into play, as well a the "time" factor.

The "fix" for this though, will be to eliminate the source of the collision(s) at the Moen docks, whatever it is... The hunt is on, and we do thank you for the details.

[pbar1469]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The "fix" for this though, will be to eliminate the source of the collision(s) at the Moen docks, whatever it is... The hunt is on, and we do thank you for the details.

That's quite an interesting explanation! Thanks for that.
You are most welcome, and feel free to ask for more data if needed!

Just a silly question though, is it possible to create an object/unit that has no skin (or a translucent skin), but just a small 3D model, invisible for practical terms, that does not move, stays underwater but at a lesser depth that the draft of a docked "real" unit? The idea being to place them around docking spots and it would act sort like an anchor to stop units from being "propelled". Probably not possible I guess.

Just thinking that because you said that the units do not have physical properties when it comes to the land and docks when the player is still far away, but they do react with each other.

Anyway, awesome work guys, I do enjoy this modification so very much!

Pedro