[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

I play with TMO Update BH V2.0 +OTC for TMO 2.5 .
Started prewar S18 Career. Get exersice mission, went there , target ship do not show up. I went further south to the shore, nothing there
Find the mission file, it shows the target loops waypoints and does not dissappear. So where is the ship?

Bart,

although the directions lead one to believe that contact with the target must be made AND the target ship appears in the mission specs, for some unknown reason it does not appear in the game.

as C.Wreckless posted: just cruise around a while and the objective will complete.

that is because there are only two objectives for this mission and they are both patrol-time objectives. one in Lingayen Gulf and the other in the Gulf of Tonkin. the mission directive-text gets one focused on playing war games with the two friendlies but in reality it is a 72 hour area patrol.

personally, i have looked at the mission and cannot figure out why the stupid ship does not appear. if i do i will post the solution.

p.s. i reviewed this mission (again) and, in an effort to find the problem, i made two adjustments. i added an RGG in the same approximate area as the original Group of Two and i changed the Start Date parm of the mission to 1/1/1938. The RGG was added to see if it would react differently than the Group.

when the mission was executed, the Group spawned as expected but was not detectable. THAT is unexplainable at this time.

the RGG, which should have spawned when the Group spawned, did not spawn until we had been on patrol in the area for a while. since this was unexpected, it was not tracked. the RGG moved around according to its definition but, like the Group, it remained undetectable.

the term undetectable means that the crew did not detect their presence when they were in close proximity to our boat. no 'contact' warnings were announced.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

I play with TMO Update BH V2.0 +OTC for TMO 2.5 .
Started prewar S18 Career. Get exersice mission, went there , target ship do not show up. I went further south to the shore, nothing there
Find the mission file, it shows the target loops waypoints and does not dissappear. So where is the ship?

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Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

I've played that mission several times and the Marblehead has never shown up. Just cruise around in the area, it will complete.

Possible clue there in the Group header, where it has "EvolveFromEntryDate=true". What that does is it puts the ship wherever it would be on the date your boat enters the game. Not seen, but surmised is the last Waypoint (6??). It looks like it is set to Loop to Waypoint 1, correct? Make certain it is set to 100% of the time. If it is set below 100%, the group will take off across the ocean in a straight line beyond Waypoint 1. Also, in the TMO files, the CLOmaha is not a "complete" ship, and relies on the Stock game's binary files, so look in your Sea NCL_Omaha folder and make certain all of the files are there. You should also make certain there is enough space between the Omaha and its escort ship, allowing at least 1000 yards between them, because the escort will do patrolling "knuckles", and it will need plenty of room to avoid the Omaha going into collision avoidance and then neither of them maintaining formation. You can also delete the lines SecondsUntilReport=-21.501501, HighPrioContact=false, TacticalUnit=false, AvailStartDate=19380101, AvailEndDate=194531, since they are not neeeded by the game. Anytime you run the Mission Editor though, it will put those last four lines back in.

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

Bart,

although the directions lead one to believe that contact with the target must be made AND the target ship appears in the mission specs, for some unknown reason it does not appear in the game.

as C.Wreckless posted: just cruise around a while and the objective will complete.

that is because there are only two objectives for this mission and they are both patrol-time objectives. one in Lingayen Gulf and the other in the Gulf of Tonkin. the mission directive-text gets one focused on playing war games with the two friendlies but in reality it is a 72 hour area patrol.

personally, i have looked at the mission and cannot figure out why the stupid ship does not appear. if i do i will post the solution.

p.s. i reviewed this mission (again) and, in an effort to find the problem, i made two adjustments. i added an RGG in the same approximate area as the original Group of Two and i changed the Start Date parm of the mission to 1/1/1938. The RGG was added to see if it would react differently than the Group.

when the mission was executed, the Group spawned as expected but was not detectable. THAT is unexplainable at this time.

the RGG, which should have spawned when the Group spawned, did not spawn until we had been on patrol in the area for a while. since this was unexpected, it was not tracked. the RGG moved around according to its definition but, like the Group, it remained undetectable.

the term undetectable means that the crew did not detect their presence when they were in close proximity to our boat. no 'contact' warnings were announced.

The ship is set to Neutral by default with the "Side=0" line, or 'friendly' with a "1", but you're both neutral prior to 19411207. The game should report sonar or radar contacts (if appropriate) and ship spotted, but once spotted, will not report sonar contact unless you submerge and can no longer "see" the ship. You guys could also try setting the ship to report its position after every 30 minutes, and try to see what it is doing...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Possible clue there in the Group header, where it has "EvolveFromEntryDate=true". What that does is it puts the ship wherever it would be on the date your boat enters the game. Not seen, but surmised is the last Waypoint (6??). It looks like it is set to Loop to Waypoint 1, correct? Make certain it is set to 100% of the time. If it is set below 100%, the group will take off across the ocean in a straight line beyond Waypoint 1.

i always thought that the EvolveFromEntryDate parm tracked the version of the Unit from its birth through its "evolution" as a unit, as game time progressed. i never once thought it would mean evolve its position in the game.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Also, in the TMO files, the CLOmaha is not a "complete" ship, and relies on the Stock game's binary files, so look in your Sea NCL_Omaha folder and make certain all of the files are there. You should also make certain there is enough space between the Omaha and its escort ship, allowing at least 1000 yards between them, because the escort will do patrolling "knuckles", and it will need plenty of room to avoid the Omaha going into collision avoidance and then neither of them maintaining formation.

i thought this might be a problem also, however, in TMO_BH, the Omaha has just as many \Sea-folder files as any other CL, IJN or US.

i DID notice that in the Roster file (Omaha.cfg) that \Sea\Omaha.TGA files are referenced however there are NO corresponding TGA files in the \Sea\NCLOmaha folder. there are several sets of DDS graphic files, however. i do not think this is the issue in this particular problem.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The ship is set to Neutral by default with the "Side=0" line, or 'friendly' with a "1", but you're both neutral prior to 19411207. The game should report sonar or radar contacts (if appropriate) and ship spotted, but once spotted, will not report sonar contact unless you submerge and can no longer "see" the ship. You guys could also try setting the ship to report its position after every 30 minutes, and try to see what it is doing...

neither the RGG nor the Group is spotted. by anyone. at any time.
and i did set the Report Position to 10 prior to my last run, which may have aided the appearance of the group/RGG icons.

i still cannot figure out why there is no second spawn when we are in close proximity to the group/RGG.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

You can also delete the lines SecondsUntilReport=-21.501501, HighPrioContact=false, TacticalUnit=false, AvailStartDate=19380101, AvailEndDate=194531, since they are not neeeded by the game. Anytime you run the Mission Editor though, it will put those last four lines back in.

BTW, setting High Priority Contact to true will cause the game to mark the group/RGG with a huge, visible icon, once it spawns. i've tested that before.

[KaleunMarco]

continuing the discussion.....

in this first shot, you can see that we are approx 3000 yds from the MarbleHead Task Group and yet there is no second spawn of individual ships and therefore none of the ships is detected by either the Watch Crew or the Sonar crew.

 

in the second shot, we are within approx 3000 yds of the RGG i created with the exact same ships as the Group above and there is no second spawn, no detection by the crew or our sensors.

 

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

continuing the discussion.....

in this first shot, you can see that we are approx 3000 yds from the MarbleHead Task Group and yet there is no second spawn of individual ships and therefore none of the ships is detected by either the Watch Crew or the Sonar crew.

 

in the second shot, we are within approx 3000 yds of the RGG i created with the exact same ships as the Group above and there is no second spawn, no detection by the crew or our sensors.

 

i created another RGG, this one is IJN merchies (Momoyama Maru aka Hog Island Freighter) that i know appear during game play.
yet, they perform the same as the US warship groups.

 

the problem has to be rooted in the way the game treats neutrals during prewar dates.
i changed the date of the Pre-War Asiatic 02 mission to December 9 1941, created a new boat based in Cavite, then assigned the Pre-war (now December 1941) mission to the new boat.
Bingo, the Marblehead and its escort now spawn as expected.

 

at least this proves that the game is prejudiced during the pre-war time frame in the Pacific in the way it manages groups/RGGs.
i suspect that if we designed an August 1939 pre-war mission for Dark Waters that the game would react similarly.

[propbeanie]

When both vessels are neutrals, you will not get reports. This is why TC does not drop when you are playing during the "war time", when you are watching the NavMap at 1024 or whatever TC, and you'll see a green icon flying across the screen, and foof it's gone... still at the same TC and no interrupting report. Do you "physically see" the vessels yourself from the bridge in your examples above, though?

Also, as to the spawning, once you are within potential "sight" range of a spawn origination, the game will not spawn anymore groups or units. In fact, the game seemingly considers sonar range for the RGG, so you might have to be over 52+km (roughly 30-32nm) away.

Also, don't forget that the game only uses one sensor at a time...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

When both vessels are neutrals, you will not get reports. This is why TC does not drop when you are playing during the "war time", when you are watching the NavMap at 1024 or whatever TC, and you'll see a green icon flying across the screen, and foof it's gone... still at the same TC and no interrupting report. Do you "physically see" the vessels yourself from the bridge in your examples above, though?

...not during the peacetime dates when we are all neutrals.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Also, as to the spawning, once you are within potential "sight" range of a spawn origination, the game will not spawn anymore groups or units. In fact, the game seemingly considers sonar range for the RGG, so you might have to be over 52+km (roughly 30-32nm) away.

Also, don't forget that the game only uses one sensor at a time...

no sensor detected ships during peacetime. the groups just came-and-went on their own. no second spawn of individual ships.

during wartime, there was a second spawn and individual ships were spawned and detected....i cannot remember the message. i think they were visually detected.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

When both vessels are neutrals, you will not get reports. This is why TC does not drop when you are playing during the "war time", when you are watching the NavMap at 1024 or whatever TC, and you'll see a green icon flying across the screen, and foof it's gone... still at the same TC and no interrupting report. Do you "physically see" the vessels yourself from the bridge in your examples above, though?

Also, as to the spawning, once you are within potential "sight" range of a spawn origination, the game will not spawn anymore groups or units. In fact, the game seemingly considers sonar range for the RGG, so you might have to be over 52+km (roughly 30-32nm) away.

Also, don't forget that the game only uses one sensor at a time...

And I found the game won't TC 1 spotting Friendly units, or Receive Contact message, I always notice the contact 2 hours afterwards, despite I've already set RadioReport=1. But it does TC 1
while receiving news massage.