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Old 05-02-2008, 04:47 PM   #1
Uber Gruber
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Default [WIP] New Super Dooper Mod

Okay, firstly i'm sorry for the attention grabbing headline but hear me out before keel hauling me.

Who would like to see the following MOD PACK :

1. GWX 2.1 (of course)
2. GWX 2.1 Bug FiX
3. OLC Uber Mod
4. Rubini et al Lifeboats and Debris (with animation)
5. Rubini's Water Streams
6. NVDrifter's LRT Full (alias Zen alias Prof Morriarty, my arch nemesis)
7. Thomsens Sound Mod V2 (V3 on its way so I hope)
8. AOTD Max and Iambecomelife AA
9. MERCHANT SHIP PACK (i'll be shot for that one!)
10. Racerboy's Exhaust Mod (god rest his absent soul)

All combined into one mod ?

GWX is the best thing since sliced bread but I think its time to push the boat out......so now is the time to utter.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:25 PM   #2
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That would be a pain in the ass for those who don't want one (or more) of those mods... And the size would be too big for those with dial-up conection. But sure as hell, its an amazing idea... Easier to download, easier to enable...
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Gruber
10. Racerboy's Exhaust Mod (god rest his absent soul)
Why? Has he passed away or something? :hmm:

Re your idea, not bad, but a few initial thoughts.

1. I'd be against including GWX2.1. It's already a nice encapsulated d/l which I have and besides, the likelihood that the GWX team would agree to their product being bundled with non-GWX created mods is quite unlikely...and totally understandable.

2. The selections, while being perhaps the most popular, are still very subjective. Sounds don't concern me, so if I'm d/l a 200mb file with 150mb of sound files alone, I'm not gonna do it. I'm assuming here that #7 will make up the bulk of the d/l footprint, so correct me if I am wrong. Of course, those that like the sounds may have a different opinion, thus meeting an assumed Pareto principle that you'd apply in determining the feasibility of the project that you are considering. But looking at it, if any one aspect of your uber mod is going to take up the majority of the mod, you need to really consider the implications and restrictions that this might provide.

Other than that, I think your selections are well chosen. But here's a scenario - you haven't noticed that #5 is actually included in #3, so it's not needed. But what happens when/if Rubini updates his water stream mod? Will OLC update his mod? Either way, will you then release a full updated pack for d/l? Again, if sound files make up 150mb of a 200mb d/l, do you think anyone will d/l the full pack again for what is essentially a few 100kb change? And players who "must have it now", won't wait anyway, meaning that your idea becomes a short term proposition, essentially ending as soon as any one of the mods is updated.

Perhaps I'm the wrong market for your question - your idea really should be pitched to those that have none of its inclusions, because those of us who have GWX 2.1 will also have most of the extras anyway (an intuitive call here, based simply on the popularity of the associated release threads), so won't be in a hurry to d/l it all again, especially with the ongoing development and enhancement to some of the proposed included mods.

Anyway, I'm not wanting to sound negative or critical, just wanting to provide some constructive food for thought. Good luck!
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JScones
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Gruber
10. Racerboy's Exhaust Mod (god rest his absent soul)
Why? Has he passed away or something? :hmm:

Re your idea, not bad, but a few initial thoughts.

1. I'd be against including GWX2.1. It's already a nice encapsulated d/l which I have and besides, the likelihood that the GWX team would agree to their product being bundled with non-GWX created mods is quite unlikely...and totally understandable.

2. The selections, while being perhaps the most popular, are still very subjective. Sounds don't concern me, so if I'm d/l a 200mb file with 150mb of sound files alone, I'm not gonna do it. I'm assuming here that #7 will make up the bulk of the d/l footprint, so correct me if I am wrong. Of course, those that like the sounds may have a different opinion, thus meeting an assumed Pareto principle that you'd apply in determining the feasibility of the project that you are considering. But looking at it, if any one aspect of your uber mod is going to take up the majority of the mod, you need to really consider the implications and restrictions that this might provide.

Other than that, I think your selections are well chosen. But here's a scenario - you haven't noticed that #5 is actually included in #3, so it's not needed. But what happens when/if Rubini updates his water stream mod? Will OLC update his mod? Either way, will you then release a full updated pack for d/l? Again, if sound files make up 150mb of a 200mb d/l, do you think anyone will d/l the full pack again for what is essentially a few 100kb change? And players who "must have it now", won't wait anyway, meaning that your idea becomes a short term proposition, essentially ending as soon as any one of the mods is updated.

Perhaps I'm the wrong market for your question - your idea really should be pitched to those that have none of its inclusions, because those of us who have GWX 2.1 will also have most of the extras anyway (an intuitive call here, based simply on the popularity of the associated release threads), so won't be in a hurry to d/l it all again, especially with the ongoing development and enhancement to some of the proposed included mods.

Anyway, I'm not wanting to sound negative or critical, just wanting to provide some constructive food for thought. Good luck!
Sound is a key for imersion. Try to play SH3 in MUTE and you'll see what I mean. And sound is heavy, there's no way around it. You can compress a campaign file to less then 500 kb, but you can't compress a sound of the uboat interior ambient to less then 10 mb, and that's not only on sound packs, but also in GWX. How much do you think GWX files weigth on sound? Like I said, no way around it. Besides, what is 200mb? Its a 10 minute download... Maybe a little more... Sound and graphics are everything, they are the only two feedbacks on what's going on. If you have amazing image but poor sound, you have half a game, and there's no use arguing that. You said you don't care about sound becouse GWX already comes with a very nice selection of sound effects, so there's no point on going after more. BUT, for most of people, sound is crucial, it's 50%, so if you are improving the game's graphical part, why not the sound?

I know you was just making a point here, not attacking me or other sound makers. And I'm also making a point here, defending my ground. From my point of view, there's no MORE IMPORTANT and LESS IMPORTANT... Everything is important, when we are talking about the game we love. So the most rich I can get my SH3 installation, the better. You can't mod to please everyone, that's impossible, so what uber gruber is trying to do it to please some (any) part of this community, and I think that's a very valid attempt. If you can please only one person, then this is already worth it.

Go for it, uber!
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Old 05-02-2008, 10:04 PM   #5
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PT, chill, I think you missed the point of what he was saying :hmm: which is easy to do when someone says something which seems to demean your efforts, but I don't think that was the point that JScones' was making.

Back on topic... UG, if I'm honest, I don't see the value in this. People can download those mods individually and combine them as they wish, so what purpose would your combined download serve? And yet, on the other hand, it can't do much harm either. Up to you, mate.
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Old 05-02-2008, 10:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen
Sound is a key for imersion. Try to play SH3 in MUTE and you'll see what I mean. And sound is heavy, there's no way around it. You can compress a campaign file to less then 500 kb, but you can't compress a sound of the uboat interior ambient to less then 10 mb, and that's not only on sound packs, but also in GWX. How much do you think GWX 2.0 files weigth on sound? Like I said, no way around it. Besides, what is 200mb? Its a 10 minute download... Maybe a little more... Sound and graphics are everything, they are the only two feedbacks on what's going on. If you have amazing image but poor sound, you have half a game, and there's no use arguing that. You said you don't care about sound becouse GWX already comes with a very nice selection of sound effects, so there's no point on going after more. BUT, for most of people, sound is crucial, it's 50%, so if you are improving the game's graphical part, why not the sound?

I know you were just making a point here, not attacking me or other sound makers. And I'm also making a point here, defending my ground. From my point of view, there's no MORE IMPORTANT and LESS IMPORTANT... Everything is important, when we are talking about the game we love. So the most rich I can get my SH3 installation, the better. You can't mod to please everyone, that's impossible, so what uber gruber is trying to do it to please some (any) part of this community, and I think that's a very valid attempt. If you can please only one person, then this is already worth it.

Go for it, uber!
And this is exactly my point - highlighting to UG that his venture is very much open to subjectivity, and that needs to be weighed against both the sustainability of the mod and the number of people that will benefit from it, both short term and long term. I won't benefit from it, and I am stating so, as requested. UG can consider or dismiss my opinion as he wishes and in conjunction with everyone else's that posts here. In the end it's his choice; I won't be offended. Nor will I preach to anyone who has an opinion different to mine.

I'll leave it there, but I will reassure you that my comments were not an attack on you or the work of any sound modder in any way. I simply don't consider sound as important to me as other aspects of the game; at least not beyond what GWX already provides which is more than acceptable for me. With this in mind, I am not even cognisant of your work, so how could I pass judgment on it?
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Old 05-03-2008, 01:04 AM   #7
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More than two years ago there were people clamoring for a "Combined Mod", the most requested being the "best" parts of two different supermods. I always had the same observation then that is being made now: your and my favorites are never going to be the same. That's the problem I have with GWX in the first place: it's a truly great piece of work, but no the one I would have combined for myself, so I'm tempted to fiddle with it to make it the way I want, and that invites all kinds of problems, not the least of which is the whole system crashing and me not knowing why.:rotfl:

My advice to anyone who wants extra super-duper combo mods: make it yourself, and offer it up for download.
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Old 05-03-2008, 02:05 AM   #8
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I thing UG was thinking more among the lines of providing a mod pack that is compatible as possible!

We know that some mods negate the other!:hmm:
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Old 05-03-2008, 06:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myxale

We know that some mods negate the other!:hmm:
That is precisely what I was thinking.

Would it not be better to leave them all as separates and let the individual decide how they wanted to adapt their individual setups

I've a few extras I've added to my install, but I'm also fully aware of the risk I'm taking with regards to corrupting the original setup.

I fear the initial proposal may lead to a right quagmire where technical support is concerned.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:17 AM   #10
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Some mods are easy to combine

The only reason I chose that path with the one I made was that there were 2 or 3 locations cfg files involved in those and was a little bit confusing
Apart from that nothing else was in conflict so was simple to patch together plus the load size in adding the minor fixes and locks to the extra ships was minor

Not sure on the possible conflicts between 5,6 and 10
Now 5 is already in 3
Is 3 compatable with 6 and 10 ?

Confusing yes sure is

IF you want to try make then all compatable AND it works in your own game then you can offer a link for D\L to share UG

My impressions are a LOT would need to be altered to make some of those compatable as they share a few of the same files but changed

Plus any updated releases of those mods leads to more problems
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Old 05-03-2008, 09:12 AM   #11
Uber Gruber
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I'm glad the topic has teased some well respected members of the community to provide some very valid comments. I'm sorry I wasn't that clear in the original post but my goal was to make the list of mods all compatible with each other and also compatible with GWX 2.1, which would be the base mod but not included in the final mod pack.

I know Rubini's water streams is also in OLCs Uber Mod but felt obliged to mention the mod seperately if only to credit his work.

Myaxle and Bigboywobbly are right, it would be better to "customise" my install with these mods and then provide a download link and an install guide.

I chose these mods as they really do it for me, i'm looking for as much 'immersion' and 'realism' as possible, hence the list. I'm sure there are many other mods that would merit inclusion but I have to set the limit somewhere.

Anyway, i'm going to crack on with it and then make it available for those that want it.

Thanks again for the input.
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Old 05-03-2008, 10:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JScones
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen
Sound is a key for imersion. Try to play SH3 in MUTE and you'll see what I mean. And sound is heavy, there's no way around it. You can compress a campaign file to less then 500 kb, but you can't compress a sound of the uboat interior ambient to less then 10 mb, and that's not only on sound packs, but also in GWX. How much do you think GWX 2.0 files weigth on sound? Like I said, no way around it. Besides, what is 200mb? Its a 10 minute download... Maybe a little more... Sound and graphics are everything, they are the only two feedbacks on what's going on. If you have amazing image but poor sound, you have half a game, and there's no use arguing that. You said you don't care about sound becouse GWX already comes with a very nice selection of sound effects, so there's no point on going after more. BUT, for most of people, sound is crucial, it's 50%, so if you are improving the game's graphical part, why not the sound?

I know you were just making a point here, not attacking me or other sound makers. And I'm also making a point here, defending my ground. From my point of view, there's no MORE IMPORTANT and LESS IMPORTANT... Everything is important, when we are talking about the game we love. So the most rich I can get my SH3 installation, the better. You can't mod to please everyone, that's impossible, so what uber gruber is trying to do it to please some (any) part of this community, and I think that's a very valid attempt. If you can please only one person, then this is already worth it.

Go for it, uber!
And this is exactly my point - highlighting to UG that his venture is very much open to subjectivity, and that needs to be weighed against both the sustainability of the mod and the number of people that will benefit from it, both short term and long term. I won't benefit from it, and I am stating so, as requested. UG can consider or dismiss my opinion as he wishes and in conjunction with everyone else's that posts here. In the end it's his choice; I won't be offended. Nor will I preach to anyone who has an opinion different to mine.

I'll leave it there, but I will reassure you that my comments were not an attack on you or the work of any sound modder in any way. I simply don't consider sound as important to me as other aspects of the game; at least not beyond what GWX already provides which is more than acceptable for me. With this in mind, I am not even cognisant of your work, so how could I pass judgment on it?
Sorry, JSCones... I thought you was saying something like "this is great, but sound packs sucks!"... I see your point now... I guess to each his own, right... Sorry again!
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:32 PM   #13
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I have one question - are Racerboy's Exhaust Mod and Rubini's Water Streams compatible with GWX 2.01?
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:34 PM   #14
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Well so far i've managed to get the following all working together. This is the first time i've tried modding SH3 to be honest so its been an education...albeit a slow one because I broke my right hand on Thursday...damn Fridge!

Anyway, I really do suggest people have a go at customising their installs, a "file diff" utility and Skwas's "Silent 3ditor" should help a great deal.

GWX - Open Hatch Mod
Extra units AOTD MAX+Iambecomes AA 2.1 ready
GWX 2.1 Minor fix's 26th April
LifeBoats&Debris_v2_A
Water_Stream_for_Uboats_V4
OLCE2 (OLC Ubermod 2.0.3 Part 1 of 3)
OLC GUI Special (OLC Ubermod 2.0.3 Part 2 of 3)
OLC Realistic Map Contact Updates (OLC Ubermod 2.0.3 Part 3 of 3)
LRT v2.02 Final
LRT 2.02 Light DC Shake
OLCU Special GUI LRT 2.02 Final patch
GWX 2.1 fix patch LRT 2.02
HiRes_Dolphins
RB's Exhaust Smoke
Thomsens Sound Mod V2
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Gruber
I broke my right hand on Thursday...damn Fridge!

Don't stand so close to the Fridge the next time.

:rotfl:
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