The PlayersDB Project, A new Harpoon3 database

[Gorshkov]

I don't care what and why is included on various databases because I am interested only in realistic simulation. So I think if some weapons modeling is wrong I simply touched that out above and suggested how to correct this. That is not my own fat but facts backed by official and now quite easily accessible Soviet weapons data that surfaced after end of Cold War.
Therefore I do not understand keeping backward compatibility between databases if they include not realistic data or apply some equally bad "paper rules". All issue is simple - constant technological progress enabled even new versions of the same weapon system got much improved capabilities. For example:

- first version of SA-N-6 system from 1980s with 5V55R missiles could not engage sea-skimmers because its min engagement altitude was only 25 meters.

- later SA-N-6 version from early 1990s with 48N6 missiles acquired this capability because this missile can engage targets flying at 10 m altitude.

There are several such examples like SA-N-4A and SA-N-4C, SA-N-7 and SA-N-12. So what would be as I think simple to implement is to enable "anti-seaskimming penalty flag" only for those older missile variants. As a result say Kirov-class nuclear cruiser from 1980s would be much easier to destroy using Harpoons than the same warship from 1990s. The same applies to Slava-class cruisers, Sovremenny-class destroyers and so on. That way we would have in Harpoon 3 a great picture of progress in naval warfare during last decades instead of keeping forever some strange "paper rules"...

[Herman]

You have been told the basis upon which the data is included within the PlayersDB. If you do not agree with it, that is your prerogative. You have also been told how to modify it to suit your personal tastes, if you prefer. No one will stop you.

Yet you persist in your demands that the PlayersDB be edited in a specific manner approved by you as though there is 'only one right/realistic way to edit or maintain a database.' That simply is not true and it is not going to happen. You are free to modify the PlayersDB for your own private enjoyment, personal play, and tastes. Please do not try to dictate how others play the game.

[Gorshkov]

I only pointed-out why pooners still have to play with unrealistic settings included in many Harpoon 3 databases if now it is widely known those naval SAMs work differently in real life. So "my" demands are rather demands of reality which should solely dictate appropriate correction in Harpoon 3 databases and rules. If not why to play with unrealistic game? Yet fixing these issues is quite easy...

I must wait to buy Harpoon 3 Ultimate Edition to be able to test all most popular databases (stock, ANW, HUD3, PlayersDB, DB2000) against this issue. Then we shall see what database is well made.

[Herman]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

I only pointed-out why pooners still have to play with unrealistic settings included in many Harpoon 3 databases if now it is widely known those naval SAMs work differently in reality.

And you know this 'how'? You have not played any scenarios at all in order to establish a basis for judgment of how things are or are not working yet somehow you know that they are broken or somehow 'unrealistic'.

Your perspective on reality is just your personal view. Everyone else may have their own belief of what reality is. Is it so hard to understand that not everyone agrees with you? However, consensus is not necessary as you may modify the PlayersDB to accommodate your personal view just do not expect me or any others to do this for you.

[Gorshkov]

It is not about "how", it is simply about "those SAMs can engage sea-skimmers or not". In reality they cannot at all or can do that very poorly but it seems in Harpoon 3 with some databases they can shot down them very well. Plain and simple.
No testing is needed to be certain that something is wrong because no penalty flag during engagement of targets at VLow altitudes is known fact at that point. Tests can only confirm that more precisely. What I mean is to check which databases include "no-penalty flag" for those SAMs enabled and test them first time only with penalty flag enabled/disabled and maybe later second time with adjusted Pk (SSPK) according to reliable sources if they are available and first results won't be satisfactory. I do that as soon as I get Ultimate bundle because it is not much work as I suppose (several Russian SAMs I mentioned earlier, Chinese SAMs are mostly Soviet clones and most modern indigenous systems are of course capable of shotting-down sea-skimmers, Western stuff is much more numerous so I will look at it later).

Of course it is necessary to eliminate such ridiculous situations like invulnerable against Harpoon and TASM strikes Sovremennys, Slavas and Kirovs in 1980s scenarios.

[Herman]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

It is not about "how", it is simply about "those SAMs can engage sea-skimmers or not". In reality they cannot at all or can do that very poorly but it seems in Harpoon 3 with some databases they can shot down them very well. Plain and simple.

Pure conjecture on your part. You have no clue if they are shot down very well or not. Plain and simple.

[Gorshkov]

So you should do some research.

However I must admit after brief reading of HarpoonHQ forum other databases also have some flaws. For example HARM is useless in DB2000 because it cannot hit any radar.

Gosh! Those Harpoon 3 databases...maybe stock database is the best over here?

[Herman]

It does appear as though everything that seems to disagree with you is flawed.

The PlayersDB will not be edited according to your perception of reality.

[Gorshkov]

Nope. It rather appears everything which is not correct with reality is flawed...so maybe do this research yourself first and later decide about editing of PlayersDB and about so called "paper rules" in general.

[jdkbph]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Nope. It rather appears everything which is not correct with reality is flawed...so maybe do this research yourself first and later decide about editing of PlayersDB and about so called "paper rules" in general.

Gorshkov,

Are you aware that you have disabled private messages?

JD

[Gorshkov]

Probably so. Do you want to send me PM?

***EDIT*** PM enabled.

[jdkbph]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Probably so. Do you want to send me PM?

***EDIT*** PM enabled.

Something is still not right...

vBulletin Message
Gorshkov has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove Gorshkov from the recipient list and send the message again.

[Gorshkov]

OK, try now.

[Herman]

Over 43 new aircraft, ships, submarines, facilities, classes, countries, and weapons have been added to the Harpoon3 PlayersDB with the official Database editor issued by AGSI.

Get the PlayersDB-ANW on SubSim or HarPlonkHQ.

Get the PlayersDB on SubSim or HarPlonkHQ.

Additions include:

AO Appleleaf RN 59
AO Plumleaf RN 60
AO Pearleaf RN 60
AOR Tidespring RN 63
AOR Tideflow RN 55
Lynx Mk 2(FN) FR 79

- countless changes and improvements guaranteed not to crash any earlier scenario built with the PlayersDB

Primum non nocere [First, do no harm] - Prime Directive of the PlayersDB.

Harpoon ANW users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon ANW Library

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon 3.6.3 Library

FilesOfScenShare

[Herman]

Over 12 new aircraft, ships, submarines, facilities, classes, countries, and weapons have been added to the Harpoon3 PlayersDB with the official Database editor issued by AGSI.

Get the PlayersDB-ANW on SubSim or HarPlonkHQ.

Get the PlayersDB on SubSim or HarPlonkHQ.

Additions include:

Satellite Yaogan PRC
Satellite [ANW] Yaogan PRC

- countless changes and improvements guaranteed not to crash any earlier scenario built with the PlayersDB

Primum non nocere [First, do no harm] - Prime Directive of the PlayersDB.

Harpoon ANW users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon ANW Library

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon 3.6.3 Library

The Harpoon 3 and ANW FAQ:
Frequently Asked Questions

FilesOfScenShare