Let's talk RSR

MarkShot · 07-24-12, 04:37 PM

I haven't posted in a while.

I am going to be relocating later this year. I'll only have an iPad2 and old laptop (2004) available to me for 4-6 months. So, I installed some old games on it which I would like to give spin ... Harpoon 3, Harpoon Classic, and RSR.

I am currently reading the RSR manual and the book. In the past, I've played SC/DW. In RSR, your crew performs TMA for you and a solution is built. From playing SC/DW, I know that you need about three legs at relatively slow speed (allowing the array to straighten out) to get a good solution against a constant target at distance. (in close you can triangulate between hull and towed sonar arrays)

My question: Is this relevant to RSR? Will changing course and running three legs speed my TMA? Also, in combat will changing course and speed slow my opponent's TMA?

Thanks (and it is nice to be back!)

kgsuarez · 07-25-12, 03:11 PM

This is a very coincidental thread, being that I started playing RSR again just last night.

I cannot say with any certainty whether running legs will produce a better target solution, or even produce a solution faster. We would need to test this theory in one of the practice scenarios or wait for someone else to offer their experiences. But, it always seemed to me that TMA solutions were based on proximity to the target and the time spent tracking it. I would suspect that correctly identifying a target's acoustic signature would improve the solution as well.

Either way, I have never given it much thought because I am almost always changing course for tactical reasons. This is mostly habit because of my countless hours in SC/DW, but also because it's usually the way it would be done in real life.

So basically I can't answer your question, but I am interested in finding an answer to this.

Herman · 07-25-12, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgsuarez

I would suspect that correctly identifying a target's acoustic signature would improve the solution as well.

I can remember quite clearly that this is the case. If you can correctly identify the contact, the solution comes much more quickly.

MarkShot · 07-25-12, 04:50 PM

Thanks.

MarkShot · 07-25-12, 07:32 PM

I haven't played yet, but read the docs. While reading, I just couldn't help thinking if only SC/DW had such a campaign engine.

kgsuarez · 07-26-12, 11:44 AM

I agree. SC/DW with RSR's campaign would be awesome. The campaign mode is really what made this game so great in the long run.

One of the things I like most about RSR is how you have very little to do with sonar and TMA. I am pretty good at operating sonar and TMA in SC/DW, but it usually feels like a chore to me. By having it handled automatically I can focus more on the tactical picture, just like a real commander would.

I think RSR is a lot more fun than SC/DW too. I think it is because it has the right level of challenge, in Ultimate mode. I can handle pretty much any situation the game throws at me, as long as I am paying attention. If slack off a little I will quickly die. It just seems like a well-balanced game.

Admittedly, even in Ultimate mode it is very difficult for my boat to be sunk. I'm really not sure how well an SSN would take a torpedo hit in real life, but in the game it takes at least two hits for 688i to be sunk, whereas its Soviet counterparts are sunk after only one hit. But I guess that is okay since it is usually one American vs. several Soviets. It's also a lot of fun to limp back to base with extreme damage after a grueling battle.

As a personal rule, I always end my career after having been sunk. The game always lets you survive the sinking and then gives you a new boat. This seems kind of ridiculous to me, so I just ignore it and start over.

Going back to your original question: Reading the manual last night I came across a section (I think it was in the Captain's Manual chapter) that mentioned target solution accuracy being correlated to the time tracked. I'm starting to think that running legs will have almost no affect on solution accuracy. Either way, I am sure that you will come across the section yourself soon enough. But I will update this post later with the excerpt.

MarkShot · 07-26-12, 12:20 PM

Besides the lack of a dynamic campaign SC/DW suffered from a lot of the scenarios which were bugged. They just didn't work without going into the editor to fix a few problems. This also includes many of the third party scenarios. Additionally, it was unclear what you needed to actually do in many to achieve the objective without looking in the editor. (Compared to WWII subsims, things were very clear cut.)

Finally, a lot of the scenarios are detect/counter-detect and no shooting.

I far more enjoyed the WWII subsims of the nature: find/approach/kill/escape. Detect/counter-detect can be pretty boring when it is only a game and not your career.

Herman · 07-26-12, 01:01 PM

The game supposedly had an Ohio-class SSBN in it. In all the sessions I played, I never ran across it. I'd love to hear if you ever run into it.

kgsuarez · 07-26-12, 11:34 PM

MarkShot, I found what I read last night. It is in the Captain's Manual, page 45.

Quote:

In general, the longer you listen to the enemy, the greater the accuracy of the contact solution. If you lose a contact, solution accuracy gradually degrades to zero.

This really makes it sound like solution accuracy is based solely on range and time spent tracking. If running legs made any difference it would have been mentioned in the manual.

Herman, I have never run into an Ohio in RSR. In fact, I don't think I have ever run into any NATO vessels.

Red October1984 · 07-31-12, 04:54 PM

I just started playing RSR on Dosbox. This game is hard!

Any tips or tricks? I got assigned the USS Dallas and started a training mission. That is as far as i got.

MarkShot · 07-31-12, 05:00 PM

I haven't started playing yet.

I am waiting until I pack up my desktop.

Red October1984 · 07-31-12, 07:43 PM

I GOT MY FIRST KILL!

There is a Soviet Alfa submarine laying on the bottom of the north sea!

Sailor Steve · 07-31-12, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkShot

I haven't posted in a while.

More than three years, to be not quite precise.

I don't play any of those, but it's good to see you here again.

Red October1984 · 07-31-12, 09:13 PM

Ok. In the campaign mode, when i go to battlestations and it switches to the tactical display, how do i switch back to the screen where it says: Continue on Course, XO Report Status of the Ship, Review Mission Orders, Computer Log?

kgsuarez · 08-01-12, 02:05 PM

Red October1984, you must read the manual.

Everything you need to know is in the manual. It even gives some suggestions on tactics to use.

Use acoustic conditions to your advantage. The most basic thing here is the thermal layer, which you (or enemies) can hide under (or above). There is also "noisy" water sometimes (generally in deep water). Use the Shift+F8 key to display these conditions.

Pay attention to your sensors. The towed array is the best sensor you have, but it won't always work. It is only operational in deep water, and when your sub is moving steadily. Quick turns will temporarily disable the towed array.

Be mindful of the enemies detection abilities. Compare sonar with enemy contacts using the F7 key.

Keep a copy of the keyboard layout on hand. When things start moving quickly you might get flustered. Pause the game until you find the keys you want to press.

Keep quiet. A submarine's best advantage is its stealth. Avoid fast speeds, using the periscope and active sensors.

Once you've made contact with the enemy you cannot return to transit (strategic) mode until you have dealt with the enemy. You can destroy them or sneak away. Once you have no more contacts, or your contacts are moving away quickly, you will have the option to end the battle and return to transit.

07-24-12, 04:37 PM	#1
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Let's talk RSR I haven't posted in a while. I am going to be relocating later this year. I'll only have an iPad2 and old laptop (2004) available to me for 4-6 months. So, I installed some old games on it which I would like to give spin ... Harpoon 3, Harpoon Classic, and RSR. I am currently reading the RSR manual and the book. In the past, I've played SC/DW. In RSR, your crew performs TMA for you and a solution is built. From playing SC/DW, I know that you need about three legs at relatively slow speed (allowing the array to straighten out) to get a good solution against a constant target at distance. (in close you can triangulate between hull and towed sonar arrays) My question: Is this relevant to RSR? Will changing course and running three legs speed my TMA? Also, in combat will changing course and speed slow my opponent's TMA? Thanks (and it is nice to be back!) __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-25-12, 04:50 PM	#4
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Thanks. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-25-12, 07:32 PM	#5
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I haven't played yet, but read the docs. While reading, I just couldn't help thinking if only SC/DW had such a campaign engine. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-26-12, 12:20 PM	#7
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Besides the lack of a dynamic campaign SC/DW suffered from a lot of the scenarios which were bugged. They just didn't work without going into the editor to fix a few problems. This also includes many of the third party scenarios. Additionally, it was unclear what you needed to actually do in many to achieve the objective without looking in the editor. (Compared to WWII subsims, things were very clear cut.) Finally, a lot of the scenarios are detect/counter-detect and no shooting. I far more enjoyed the WWII subsims of the nature: find/approach/kill/escape. Detect/counter-detect can be pretty boring when it is only a game and not your career. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-26-12, 01:01 PM	#8
Herman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,184 Downloads: 269 Uploads: 1046	The game supposedly had an Ohio-class SSBN in it. In all the sessions I played, I never ran across it. I'd love to hear if you ever run into it. __________________ Guidelines for ScenShare scenarios: 1) Enjoy creating it 2) Enjoy playing it 3) Enjoy sharing it 4) Enjoy helping others create them The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice. Harpoon3 Frequently Asked Questions

07-25-12, 03:11 PM	#2
kgsuarez Planesman Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: USA Posts: 181 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	This is a very coincidental thread, being that I started playing RSR again just last night. I cannot say with any certainty whether running legs will produce a better target solution, or even produce a solution faster. We would need to test this theory in one of the practice scenarios or wait for someone else to offer their experiences. But, it always seemed to me that TMA solutions were based on proximity to the target and the time spent tracking it. I would suspect that correctly identifying a target's acoustic signature would improve the solution as well. Either way, I have never given it much thought because I am almost always changing course for tactical reasons. This is mostly habit because of my countless hours in SC/DW, but also because it's usually the way it would be done in real life. So basically I can't answer your question, but I am interested in finding an answer to this.

07-26-12, 11:44 AM	#6
kgsuarez Planesman Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: USA Posts: 181 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	I agree. SC/DW with RSR's campaign would be awesome. The campaign mode is really what made this game so great in the long run. One of the things I like most about RSR is how you have very little to do with sonar and TMA. I am pretty good at operating sonar and TMA in SC/DW, but it usually feels like a chore to me. By having it handled automatically I can focus more on the tactical picture, just like a real commander would. I think RSR is a lot more fun than SC/DW too. I think it is because it has the right level of challenge, in Ultimate mode. I can handle pretty much any situation the game throws at me, as long as I am paying attention. If slack off a little I will quickly die. It just seems like a well-balanced game. Admittedly, even in Ultimate mode it is very difficult for my boat to be sunk. I'm really not sure how well an SSN would take a torpedo hit in real life, but in the game it takes at least two hits for 688i to be sunk, whereas its Soviet counterparts are sunk after only one hit. But I guess that is okay since it is usually one American vs. several Soviets. It's also a lot of fun to limp back to base with extreme damage after a grueling battle. As a personal rule, I always end my career after having been sunk. The game always lets you survive the sinking and then gives you a new boat. This seems kind of ridiculous to me, so I just ignore it and start over. Going back to your original question: Reading the manual last night I came across a section (I think it was in the Captain's Manual chapter) that mentioned target solution accuracy being correlated to the time tracked. I'm starting to think that running legs will have almost no affect on solution accuracy. Either way, I am sure that you will come across the section yourself soon enough. But I will update this post later with the excerpt.

07-31-12, 04:54 PM	#10
Red October1984 Airplane Nerd Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 6,241 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	I just started playing RSR on Dosbox. This game is hard! Any tips or tricks? I got assigned the USS Dallas and started a training mission. That is as far as i got. __________________

07-31-12, 05:00 PM	#11
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I haven't started playing yet. I am waiting until I pack up my desktop. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-31-12, 07:43 PM	#12
Red October1984 Airplane Nerd Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 6,241 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	I GOT MY FIRST KILL! There is a Soviet Alfa submarine laying on the bottom of the north sea! __________________

07-31-12, 09:13 PM	#14
Red October1984 Airplane Nerd Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 6,241 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	Ok. In the campaign mode, when i go to battlestations and it switches to the tactical display, how do i switch back to the screen where it says: Continue on Course, XO Report Status of the Ship, Review Mission Orders, Computer Log? __________________

08-01-12, 02:05 PM	#15
kgsuarez Planesman Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: USA Posts: 181 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	Red October1984, you must read the manual. Everything you need to know is in the manual. It even gives some suggestions on tactics to use. Use acoustic conditions to your advantage. The most basic thing here is the thermal layer, which you (or enemies) can hide under (or above). There is also "noisy" water sometimes (generally in deep water). Use the Shift+F8 key to display these conditions. Pay attention to your sensors. The towed array is the best sensor you have, but it won't always work. It is only operational in deep water, and when your sub is moving steadily. Quick turns will temporarily disable the towed array. Be mindful of the enemies detection abilities. Compare sonar with enemy contacts using the F7 key. Keep a copy of the keyboard layout on hand. When things start moving quickly you might get flustered. Pause the game until you find the keys you want to press. Keep quiet. A submarine's best advantage is its stealth. Avoid fast speeds, using the periscope and active sensors. Once you've made contact with the enemy you cannot return to transit (strategic) mode until you have dealt with the enemy. You can destroy them or sneak away. Once you have no more contacts, or your contacts are moving away quickly, you will have the option to end the battle and return to transit.