USN Dazzle Colors in World War I?

tigone · 01-12-10, 02:58 PM

Can anyone point me to an authoritative source (online or in print) on the specific colors used by the USN in World War I dazzle schemes? I have good photos defining the pattern, but identification of specific colors is difficult, especially given the limitations of orthochromatic film used at the time.

I'm familiar with Floating Drydock, shipcamouflage.com and the Rhode Island School of Design website, but none of these deal specifically with the USN in World War I.

Andy Hall
maritimetexas.net

Dowly · 01-12-10, 03:49 PM

I have to say that I'm not familiar with WWI camo, but looking at some of WWII dazzle camos it seems that they didnt use the "official" colors, but colors with higher contrast i.e. black and white.

tigone · 01-13-10, 11:55 AM

While there was some "freelancing" during the war -- usually when new camouflage instructions were unclear or specific colors were unavailable -- the USN tried many different patterns (or "measures") during the war, especially in the Pacific, and issued extensive guidelines and patterns (keyed to specific classes of ships) for their use. Obviously some were better than others for specific purposes, but the Navy put a lot of effort and bureaucratic process into developing them. It wasn't a haphazard business, even if some of the resulting schemes look like they were made up on the spot.

The black and white dazzle patterns you've seen are likely variations of Measures 31 and 32.

Sailor Steve · 01-13-10, 03:48 PM

As for the OP's original question concerning dazzle in the FIRST World War, this might be a good place to start:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0vo...ase%22&f=false

There is a fairly complete description of each scheme used, and some great pictures to boot.

Ignore my link which starts in the middle and go to the top. You'll love it!

This might also be of some help:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/1_4.htm

tigone · 01-14-10, 09:51 AM

Excellent. That book is on the way.

Amazon is gonna be the death of me yet.

Thanks muchly.

iambecomelife · 01-14-10, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigone

While there was some "freelancing" during the war -- usually when new camouflage instructions were unclear or specific colors were unavailable -- the USN tried many different patterns (or "measures") during the war, especially in the Pacific, and issued extensive guidelines and patterns (keyed to specific classes of ships) for their use. Obviously some were better than others for specific purposes, but the Navy put a lot of effort and bureaucratic process into developing them. It wasn't a haphazard business, even if some of the resulting schemes look like they were made up on the spot.

The black and white dazzle patterns you've seen are likely variations of Measures 31 and 32.

Both those pics are of WWII vessels; did they actually have those same measures back in 1914-1918?

tigone · 01-14-10, 04:22 PM

No, the USN didn't use the same measures in WWI, although some patterns were similar in both appearance and effect. Dowly's post (No. 2 above) specifically referred to WWII examples he'd seen, so that's what I responded to. My post (No. 3 above) was referring entirely to WWII, so I got a little off-topic there. Sorry for not being clear about which was I was talking about.

The book suggested by Sailor Steve (No. 4 above) -- which I'd seen listed elsewhere but was unfamiliar with the contents -- actually has a description of the colors used by the USN during WWI that, while somewhat general, will at least give me a running start on guessing at the colors in the black-and-white images of the ship in question.

Sailor Steve · 01-14-10, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigone

My post (No. 3 above) was referring entirely to WWII, so I got a little off-topic there. Sorry for not being clear about which was I was talking about.

Here I was slamming the OTHER guy for not sticking to the topic, and didn't realize it was the SAME guy!

Quote:

The book suggested by Sailor Steve (No. 4 above) -- which I'd seen listed elsewhere but was unfamiliar with the contents -- actually has a description of the colors used by the USN during WWI that, while somewhat general, will at least give me a running start on guessing at the colors in the black-and-white images of the ship in question.

The funny part is that I was dimly aware that there was some information out there, but not sure on the specifics. I just googled "ship camouflage world war one". It was actually the Wikipedia page on the subject that had the link to that book.

tigone · 01-18-10, 09:34 PM

Thanks to all who responded to this thread. Williams' Naval Camouflage, 1914-1945: A Complete Visual Reference is a great source. While even that work cannot identify precise colors on individual ships, it narrows down the possibilities considerably, and makes it possible to make some reasonable conjecture. First efforts here.

01-12-10, 02:58 PM	#1
tigone Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	USN Dazzle Colors in World War I? Can anyone point me to an authoritative source (online or in print) on the specific colors used by the USN in World War I dazzle schemes? I have good photos defining the pattern, but identification of specific colors is difficult, especially given the limitations of orthochromatic film used at the time. I'm familiar with Floating Drydock, shipcamouflage.com and the Rhode Island School of Design website, but none of these deal specifically with the USN in World War I. Andy Hall maritimetexas.net

01-13-10, 03:48 PM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	As for the OP's original question concerning dazzle in the FIRST World War, this might be a good place to start: http://books.google.com/books?id=0vo...ase%22&f=false There is a fairly complete description of each scheme used, and some great pictures to boot. Ignore my link which starts in the middle and go to the top. You'll love it! This might also be of some help: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/1_4.htm __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-12-10, 03:49 PM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	I have to say that I'm not familiar with WWI camo, but looking at some of WWII dazzle camos it seems that they didnt use the "official" colors, but colors with higher contrast i.e. black and white.

01-13-10, 11:55 AM	#3
tigone Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	While there was some "freelancing" during the war -- usually when new camouflage instructions were unclear or specific colors were unavailable -- the USN tried many different patterns (or "measures") during the war, especially in the Pacific, and issued extensive guidelines and patterns (keyed to specific classes of ships) for their use. Obviously some were better than others for specific purposes, but the Navy put a lot of effort and bureaucratic process into developing them. It wasn't a haphazard business, even if some of the resulting schemes look like they were made up on the spot. The black and white dazzle patterns you've seen are likely variations of Measures 31 and 32.

01-14-10, 09:51 AM	#5
tigone Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Excellent. That book is on the way. Amazon is gonna be the death of me yet. Thanks muchly.

01-14-10, 04:22 PM	#7
tigone Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	No, the USN didn't use the same measures in WWI, although some patterns were similar in both appearance and effect. Dowly's post (No. 2 above) specifically referred to WWII examples he'd seen, so that's what I responded to. My post (No. 3 above) was referring entirely to WWII, so I got a little off-topic there. Sorry for not being clear about which was I was talking about. The book suggested by Sailor Steve (No. 4 above) -- which I'd seen listed elsewhere but was unfamiliar with the contents -- actually has a description of the colors used by the USN during WWI that, while somewhat general, will at least give me a running start on guessing at the colors in the black-and-white images of the ship in question.

01-18-10, 09:34 PM	#9
tigone Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Thanks to all who responded to this thread. Williams' Naval Camouflage, 1914-1945: A Complete Visual Reference is a great source. While even that work cannot identify precise colors on individual ships, it narrows down the possibilities considerably, and makes it possible to make some reasonable conjecture. First efforts here.