Tesla: ‘There’s almost no reason to have a gas car’

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

It shouldn't be a tax by the volt seeing as how, unlike petrol, one can produce ones own electricity.

How? Run a generator? We then are back to gas engines. Add it to a home owners electric bill? Use a separate meter?

[August]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

How? Run a generator? We then are back to gas engines. Add it to a home owners electric bill? Use a separate meter?

Exactly. There's just no way to accurately record all the potential sources of power. I would think a tax would have to be mileage based. They'd record the vehicles mileage during the annual sticker inspection and you'd get a bill for the difference from what they recorded the year before. Be tough to avoid that.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly. There's just no way to accurately record all the potential sources of power. I would think a tax would have to be mileage based. They'd record the vehicles mileage during the annual sticker inspection and you'd get a bill for the difference from what they recorded the year before. Be tough to avoid that.

Buttgrieg was peddling mileage. It was shelved in a matter of days. Big oil. There is gonna be problems. And you bet there will be counterfeit annual stickers. Hell, you can get inspection paperwork on the street corner for the right price. Any jalopy can get tags.

[GoldenRivet]

When Tesla creates a truck that will haul all of my work gear (sometimes in offroad back country conditions) and tow a 37' travel trailer 1200 miles across the United States in 24 hours stopping only for 5 minute charges and pee breaks - I'm all in.

but right now, money talks and BS walks and i have a ram that will do that and every idle day i spend trying to get where im ordered to go is costing me about $1500

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

When Tesla creates a truck that will haul all of my work gear (sometimes in offroad back country conditions) and tow a 37' travel trailer 1200 miles across the United States in 24 hours stopping only for 5 minute charges and pee breaks - I'm all in.

but right now, money talks and BS walks and i have a ram that will do that and every idle day i spend trying to get where im ordered to go is costing me about $1500

It's coming. Electric tractors are here. If Ford turns a gas burning icon into E Machine, certainly there will be a E 150 pick truck. The F 150 icon will be no more.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It's coming. Electric tractors are here. If Ford turns a gas burning icon into E Machine, certainly there will be a E 150 pick truck. The F 150 icon will be no more.

Don't be the first one to buy one ... wait for the recall

[vienna]

Those super-heavy-duty zero emission trucks are already here and are being field tested and evaluated at the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles (which are directly adjacent to each other); the impetus for the shift to cleaner technology is due to the serious health threat posed to workers and nearby residents by pollution belching diesel trucks; there is even a pilot program that modifies existing diesel tractors to run on electric power provided by overhead wires, somewhat akin to a trolley car system, while in the port areas...


First Heavy Duty Fuel Cell Electric Trucks Set for Delivery to Pilot Program Customers at Ports of L.A. and Long Beach --

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301190193.html


Clean Truck Procession Opens New Port of Long Beach Bridge --

https://www.truckinginfo.com/1012726...g-beach-bridge


It must be a bit galling to Big Oil have those innovations in vehicle propulsion being developed and 'refined' in the shadows of Big Oil's own nearby refineries...

The above also brings up the other alternatives to the 'charge and go' electric systems: fuel cell and hydrogen gas alternatives are also being developed and could be major players in the near future; in California, there have been added hydrogen 'filling stations' created by funding from the State's Clean Air initiatives and the number of vehicles being sold is steadily increasing, although it is still in the 'baby steps' stage; still, countries like Norway and Denmark have been making significant strides in hydrogen and fuels cell technologies; they even have 'filling stations' that produce the hydrogen right on the station's site, negating the need to truck in the fuel the sell, unlike conventional gas stations...





<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

It must be a bit galling to Big Oil have those innovations in vehicle propulsion being developed and 'refined' in the shadows of Big Oil's own nearby refineries...

Seems unlikely. 'Big Oil' as you know are corporations whose sole purpose for existing is to make a profit. How they do that would be, I would think irrelevant.

[vienna]

Ahh, but a technology that directly affects the size of their profits would be, to them, relevant, indeed...


I recall how, when solar energy, in the form of solar cells for electric generation, was first floated back in the late 80s, the Big Oil companies went into a frenzy of CYA actions to hedge their bets; ARCO (Atlantic Richfield Oil Co., now part of British Petroleum [BP]) even went so far as to set up several dummy shell corporations offshore to invest in or gain controlling interest in copper mining in South America since copper was a major component in the manufacture of solar cells, and ARCO was not alone in such actions/activities; it may be time for Big Oil to seek likewise 'off-product' investments...







<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Ahh, but a technology that directly affects the size of their profits would be, to them, relevant, indeed...

That's not what I meant. You can bank on it that if alternative energy is a profitable endeavour, big oil will get involved and attempt to make a profit at it. And why wouldn't they? Pride? Not likely.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by u crank

That's not what I meant. You can bank on it that if alternative energy is a profitable endeavour, big oil will get involved and attempt to make a profit at it. And why wouldn't they? Pride? Not likely.

I would beg to differ. Big oil will want to continue big oil and dabble or stifle alternative energy keeping it on the back burner but still on the burner.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Don't be the first one to buy one ... wait for the recall

All experience a recall. As of late KIA/Hyundai in large numbers(engine fires). However, never buy the first model year of a newly designed car. These are the test beds finding flaws at your expense! Et al. new model and year 2006 VW Passat! Junk and they knew it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Anyway, the electric car is not paying gas tax that helps maintain the very road they are using.

[vienna]

Actually, the current gas tax setup isn't really all that fair as it is, if you think about it; if there are two gasoline powered cars, one a gas guzzler, the other a gas saver, and both drivers were to make the same trip for the same distance, the gas guzzler actually pays more in gas taxes (needs more gallons to go the same distance) than the gas saver; for the sake of argument, let's say, for the same trip, the gas guzzler uses 50 gallons of gas, and the gas saver uses 30 gallons of gas; the guzzler, for the same trip, is paying more in taxes for the same trip, every time; this is a common argument used by anti-gas-taxers for as long as I remember, and it is a bit of a valid point...

The main difference with electric vehicles is that, unlike gasoline/diesel vehicles, a user can 'refuel' at home, avoiding the service stations entirely, making the impositions/enforcement of any 'per unit' taxation very difficult; it will probably come down to some sort of mileage tax (imposed, say, at vehicle registration renewal time) or some sort of toll road system, which can be found in several countries, currently; for those who bemoan the 'inequities' of electric vehicles not paying gas taxes, how about simply abolishing gasoline/diesel taxes altogether and just go to the mileage/toll road models?...

One other thing to consider: since the clearly stated intent of our US national policy is to encourage the moving away from dependency on petroleum imports from other nations by seeking to reduce consumption, along with the development of alternative motive methods, it would seem to be a step in that direction to assess a tax premium on the sales and operation of gas/diesel vehicles that needlessly expend fuel merely for the 'enjoyment' or 'pleasure' of the user(s); if you really want to own and drive, say, a Hummer, and use it as a personal vehicle, without any valid practical business use, than maybe you should have to shell out a bit more in taxes/fees for the act of thwarting stated national policy; this is not a new or 'radical' concept; luxury taxes of all kinds exist and are imposed on all manner of expensive, frivolous items and a gas guzzler 'luxury tax' is not that far afield...

Electric and other alternative propulsion vehicles are not going anywhere and are growing in popularity and sales; petroleum powered vehicles, however are progressively diminishing in popularity and, given the auto/truck/other vehicle manufacturers are rapidly 'pulling the plug' on IC vehicles in favor of alternatives, along with continued government support of alternatives as a means of reducing, if not totally eliminating foreign fuel dependency, the dominance of IC vehicles maybe relatively short-lived going forward; I know there are those who fear the impact of reduced revenues of Big Oil as it may impact their investments, 401Ks, etc., but maybe its time for them to reconsider in which basket(s) they are putting their 'eggs', and look to diversify into auto stocks, electric battery development, and other alternative propulsion interests...

No one wants to be like the guy who heavily invested in horse buggy whip as the first Model Ts rolled off the assembly lines...




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[mapuc]

Can't remember which German car it was. It was on the news here yesterday

I think it was VW.

This car could go xxx km on one charge.

Remember thinking if they can improve the batteries so it can go 100 km longer..it may be a tuff opponent to the gasolin car.

Markus