[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI) - Page 155

MaMa · 03-06-16, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981

This is one of the most annoying thins in SH5... These lines are from one of the TWOS update changelogs...

- Forced more realistic behavior of large warships by introducing new special type of "defensive" warship in TF groups that contain capital ships. This means that aircraft carriers and large warships will not constantly buzz over your head and ram anything in their path exposing them self to an unnecessary danger, while you're under DC attack. In this case, TF will rather split in two groups where one group will try to pin you down while the other will stay with capital ships and leave the area, exactly as they should...

One more question, vdr1981 :

How did you make large warships behave like intended ? changed something in the IA settings/files or something else ?

Thanks in advance, i'm very interested for this issue...

vdr1981 · 03-07-16, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaMa

One more question, vdr1981 :

How did you make large warships behave like intended ? changed something in the IA settings/files or something else ?

Thanks in advance, i'm very interested for this issue...

I've noticed that TF goups with capital ships will behave more realistic if the is one ship with regular merchant AI in the group . Check this thread...http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=222049

Warham · 03-07-16, 09:09 AM

It's realy hard

First plane destroyed all attachments. And then i haven't chance agains that destroyer on 30m depth. And it's in 1939. And what then wait in 44?

MaMa · 03-07-16, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I've noticed that TF goups with capital ships will behave more realistic if the is one ship with regular merchant AI in the group . Check this thread...http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=222049

Thanks vdr1981 !

Helpful as Always !

vdr1981 · 03-07-16, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warham

It's realy hard

First plane destroyed all attachments. And then i haven't chance agains that destroyer on 30m depth. And it's in 1939. And what then wait in 44?

You were "randomly" unlucky...

Maybe you should step back a little? Hide underwater during the daylight, attack during the night ect...

Lanzfeld · 09-29-16, 02:15 PM

OK I have been testing the artificial intelligence in the wolves of steel mod with all the cheats on so I can see how the AI are detecting me. What I discovered I would like to bring to light because I'm not sure it's accurate or realistic at all.

I am in a campaign mission outside of a convoy that is escorted by two destroyers. It is mid-1940s so there is no radar. My AI cheats (drawn circles on the map ) show that I am entering the zone where the AI can hear me with its sonar/hydrophones when [B]Im on the surface[B] in 15 m/s wind at one third power from 4300 meters away at night! Granted there is no fog at all but there is overcast and we are talking at night with 15 m/s wind.

Now maybe on a calm, still night with maybe some fog A destroyer MIGHT be able to hear me from a dead stop if it wasn't making any engine noise itself and I was very close and high-power but certainly not from a destroyer with its own engine noises and certainly not from 4300 meters away!

I didn't think that the destroyers passive sonar was capable of detecting submarines on the surface just like as if they were underwater.

So I tested some more and waited until heavy fog. The destroyer had no problem following me around in the zero visibility and I have to guess it was only my engine noises on the surface. This is rather absurd. He couldn't see me because outside his vision circle and I was on the surface and I couldn't see him.

Can this be adjusted? I just don't find it feasible that a submarine engine on the surface could be heard from 4300 m away at one third power in 15 m/s wind.

Thoughts?

Lanzfeld · 09-30-16, 08:49 AM

OK after more testing I discovered that if you do five knots or more on the surface they can hear you from 4300 m away. If you go less than five knots the detection circle gets smaller and smaller.

Once more I just like to add that this seems way off from reality and should probably be looked at. Remember this is on the surface testing but it almost tests as is if the submarine is under the water and these are the detection ranges for certain speeds.

Lanzfeld · 10-05-16, 03:39 AM

This ability of escorts to hear you on the surface from 4.5 km away is driving me nuts!

But apparently nobody else

10-05-16, 03:44 AM

I think it's not just the detection circle with hydrophone...i think it's the radar that picks you up 4.5 km away.

Tell you what..if you want to be sure..try these settings under sim.cfg for radar.
This will eliminate radar capabilities, if they don't pick you up with these settings then it's the radar under normal conditions.

[Radar]
Detection time=8000 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.0 ;(0..1) was 0.01, increased by 75%
Waves factor=0.65 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=80.0 ;[m2]
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=1.0
Min Signal Strength=0.125

Lanzfeld · 10-05-16, 08:33 AM

No radar was used. This is the escorts hearing me on the surface at slow ahead in 15 m/s wind at 4.3 km

Mid 1940.....no radar......using detection circles.

What needs to be toned down is the hearing distance of a moving destroyer.

10-05-16, 10:04 AM

Look..escorts can't hear you on surface well...it's the radar...1940..i know what you mean, it's still radar...
Use my settings above for test to be sure....

Hydrophone is fine in IRAI, it's the radar that picks you up on surface...no matter what year...

Lanzfeld · 10-05-16, 10:44 AM

I'll try it out and report back.

Lanzfeld · 10-06-16, 02:38 PM

Update.

I made the changes and it didn't work. They still detect me at 4300 meters. They don't have radar. They are hearing me on the surface at 7 knots. I have the detection circles on and no radar circle is displayed.

I can't find the setting to adjust the surface hearing range because the way it is now is a bit unrealistic and ridiculous. Very frustrating because it makes night surface attacks with any sort of escort undoable even if you have the benefit of medium visibility.

Okay it is related to the "nose factor" under hydrophone settings in the sim.cfg file. I raised It from 0.325 to 5.0 and it seems much more realistic while on the surface except now the underwater detection ranges are way too low. I wish there was a way to differentiate between surface and underwater sound detection ranges.

I wish the dark wraith was around. He probably knows much more about the settings

10-07-16, 01:21 AM

Ok so its no the radar, i had similar problems but with radar, it took me a while to fix that...
Have you tried going 1 knot on surface with decks awashed and noise factor=0.325?

Lanzfeld · 10-07-16, 11:25 AM

Yes I have. Whenever you get blow five knots then the detection circle shrinks quite a bit. It's just ridiculous to think that a destroyer could hear a submarine on the surface from 4.3 km away running Ahead slow at 7 knots.

Only when I tweaked the value under hydrophones can I adjust this . Working with the perimeter called "noise factor" I raise it and it seems to make the detection circle smaller but I have to experiment to see how it affects the underwater sonar ranges

09-29-16, 02:15 PM	#2316
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Passive sonar on surface? OK I have been testing the artificial intelligence in the wolves of steel mod with all the cheats on so I can see how the AI are detecting me. What I discovered I would like to bring to light because I'm not sure it's accurate or realistic at all. I am in a campaign mission outside of a convoy that is escorted by two destroyers. It is mid-1940s so there is no radar. My AI cheats (drawn circles on the map ) show that I am entering the zone where the AI can hear me with its sonar/hydrophones when [B]Im on the surface[B] in 15 m/s wind at one third power from 4300 meters away at night! Granted there is no fog at all but there is overcast and we are talking at night with 15 m/s wind. Now maybe on a calm, still night with maybe some fog A destroyer MIGHT be able to hear me from a dead stop if it wasn't making any engine noise itself and I was very close and high-power but certainly not from a destroyer with its own engine noises and certainly not from 4300 meters away! I didn't think that the destroyers passive sonar was capable of detecting submarines on the surface just like as if they were underwater. So I tested some more and waited until heavy fog. The destroyer had no problem following me around in the zero visibility and I have to guess it was only my engine noises on the surface. This is rather absurd. He couldn't see me because outside his vision circle and I was on the surface and I couldn't see him. Can this be adjusted? I just don't find it feasible that a submarine engine on the surface could be heard from 4300 m away at one third power in 15 m/s wind. Thoughts?

10-05-16, 03:44 AM	#2319
redline202 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I think it's not just the detection circle with hydrophone...i think it's the radar that picks you up 4.5 km away. Tell you what..if you want to be sure..try these settings under sim.cfg for radar. This will eliminate radar capabilities, if they don't pick you up with these settings then it's the radar under normal conditions. [Radar] Detection time=8000 ;[s] Sensitivity=0.0 ;(0..1) was 0.01, increased by 75% Waves factor=0.65 ;[>=0] Enemy surface factor=80.0 ;[m2] Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=1.0 Min Signal Strength=0.125 Last edited by redline202; 10-05-16 at 06:26 AM.

10-06-16, 02:38 PM	#2323
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Update. I made the changes and it didn't work. They still detect me at 4300 meters. They don't have radar. They are hearing me on the surface at 7 knots. I have the detection circles on and no radar circle is displayed. I can't find the setting to adjust the surface hearing range because the way it is now is a bit unrealistic and ridiculous. Very frustrating because it makes night surface attacks with any sort of escort undoable even if you have the benefit of medium visibility. Okay it is related to the "nose factor" under hydrophone settings in the sim.cfg file. I raised It from 0.325 to 5.0 and it seems much more realistic while on the surface except now the underwater detection ranges are way too low. I wish there was a way to differentiate between surface and underwater sound detection ranges. I wish the dark wraith was around. He probably knows much more about the settings Last edited by Lanzfeld; 10-06-16 at 03:27 PM.

03-07-16, 09:09 AM	#2313
Warham Helmsman Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 105 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	It's realy hard First plane destroyed all attachments. And then i haven't chance agains that destroyer on 30m depth. And it's in 1939. And what then wait in 44?

09-30-16, 08:49 AM	#2317
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	OK after more testing I discovered that if you do five knots or more on the surface they can hear you from 4300 m away. If you go less than five knots the detection circle gets smaller and smaller. Once more I just like to add that this seems way off from reality and should probably be looked at. Remember this is on the surface testing but it almost tests as is if the submarine is under the water and these are the detection ranges for certain speeds.

10-05-16, 03:39 AM	#2318
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	This ability of escorts to hear you on the surface from 4.5 km away is driving me nuts! But apparently nobody else

10-05-16, 08:33 AM	#2320
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	No radar was used. This is the escorts hearing me on the surface at slow ahead in 15 m/s wind at 4.3 km Mid 1940.....no radar......using detection circles. What needs to be toned down is the hearing distance of a moving destroyer.

10-05-16, 10:04 AM	#2321
redline202 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Look..escorts can't hear you on surface well...it's the radar...1940..i know what you mean, it's still radar... Use my settings above for test to be sure.... Hydrophone is fine in IRAI, it's the radar that picks you up on surface...no matter what year...

10-05-16, 10:44 AM	#2322
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	I'll try it out and report back.

10-07-16, 01:21 AM	#2324
redline202 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Ok so its no the radar, i had similar problems but with radar, it took me a while to fix that... Have you tried going 1 knot on surface with decks awashed and noise factor=0.325?

10-07-16, 11:25 AM	#2325
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Yes I have. Whenever you get blow five knots then the detection circle shrinks quite a bit. It's just ridiculous to think that a destroyer could hear a submarine on the surface from 4.3 km away running Ahead slow at 7 knots. Only when I tweaked the value under hydrophones can I adjust this . Working with the perimeter called "noise factor" I raise it and it seems to make the detection circle smaller but I have to experiment to see how it affects the underwater sonar ranges