[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

jumping in here....
when i started playing SH4 i encountered this fuel issue at the very start. when i learned about the Specials and how to use them, i made the leap to using them as a compensatory method of off-setting the Ubi design and programming.

i use the fuel consumption, battery consumption, and dive speed specials all of the time. i have them tuned to my satisfaction.

Yea, the fuel usage was a pain and top top it off they did not include the navigator feature, so had not range estimates, luckily the community changed that oversight.

Eh special abilities drive me nuts lol. I have nearly eliminated them from TMO in next update. Two exceptions being the Dive assist, because well drilled crew could dive in 40 seconds or less , some cases 35 seconds. Other is the ahead emergency, because in a emergency could bypass procedures , overload engines and sub could make 22-23 knots on surface (BARB for instance Jan 1945) The TMO "Battery" fix, do not consider it a special ability, its to fix the ridiculously long battery recharge bug.

I am debating on removing the engineer ability. Bit gamey he can repair anything, but his ability to make pumps operate in a more realistic manner is nice, testing something soon to see if can have one without the other, hopefully will work.

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Yea, the fuel usage was a pain and top top it off they did not include the navigator feature, so had not range estimates, luckily the community changed that oversight.

Eh special abilities drive me nuts lol. I have nearly eliminated them from TMO in next update. Two exceptions being the Dive assist, because well drilled crew could dive in 40 seconds or less , some cases 35 seconds. Other is the ahead emergency, because in a emergency could bypass procedures , overload engines and sub could make 22-23 knots on surface (BARB for instance Jan 1945) The TMO "Battery" fix, do not consider it a special ability, its to fix the ridiculously long battery recharge bug.

I am debating on removing the engineer ability. Bit gamey he can repair anything, but his ability to make pumps operate in a more realistic manner is nice, testing something soon to see if can have one without the other, hopefully will work.

NOOOOO! I use the special abilities if they are available. I currently have "Battery Recharge Fix", "Engine Expert", and "Master Engineer". If I had the "Medic" or "Torpedo Expert" available I would use them.


If you plan on eliminating them, how about a mod to use them if you want.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

NOOOOO! I use the special abilities if they are available. I currently have "Battery Recharge Fix", "Engine Expert", and "Master Engineer". If I had the "Medic" or "Torpedo Expert" available I would use them.


If you plan on eliminating them, how about a mod to use them if you want.

Battery Recharge Fix will remain of course ..

I'll see about including a mod to keep them if want to use them, kind of depends on how many changes have to make and effects it has on other features. Things are often intertwined, so may not work.

One issue with the "Engine Expert" ability is I've changed the boats some, to have more realistic acceleration/deceleration times, turning radius, (boats are a little too agile) and dive times. A Gato can now dive when hit the D key at flank speed from surface to periscope depth in 35-40 seconds, which is historically accurate, but before was only possible with the special ability. When I had the engine expert on board while testing new changes, boat will dive in 15-20 seconds lol which is uh not possible for a Gato , Balao, etc. Basically, with my changes the need for the engines expert is not there his is how UBI should have done it, but they were uh lazy and just went the route of special abilities.

I am almost finished with this portion of mod, just trying to get few settings correct for fuel usage, hopefully will make it into the release, if not, will have to be patched. Very tedious, time consuming process to get it right.


Torpedo expert will be eliminated. Crew abilities really had no bearing on torpedo performance related to magnetic and duds, they were manufacturing/design issues inherent in torpedo. I've found this ability reduces the malfunction rate for too much, esp after loading a saved game.

Medic- I plan to assign the ability to a enlisted man and rename ability as "Pharmacists Mate" , as it is amore appropriate than "medic" for the Navy and the crew member having ability being a officer. All changes work well, will remain.


Chief Engineer, like I said it depends. If can eliminate ability to fix everything, but retain the pump speed (which believe can be done as I found in the files settings, havent tested yet though) will keep him, if not, he will go. With the revised (and further revised) damage model , the ability is really not needed and seems to interfere with things Some more testing to do before am sure though.


Gunnery Special Ability is definitely going, as well as the "Theoretician" .

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Battery Recharge Fix will remain of course ..

I'll see about including a mod to keep them if want to use them, kind of depends on how many changes have to make and things and effects it has on other features. Things are often intertwined so may not work.

One issue with the "Engine Expert" ability is I've changed the boats some, to have more realistic acceleration/deceleration times, turning radius, (boats are a little too agile) and dive times. A Gato can now dive when hit the D key at flank speed from surface to periscope depth in 35-40 seconds, which is historically accurate, but before was only possible with the special ability. When I had the engine expert on board while testing new changes, boat will dive in 15-20 seconds lol which is uh not possible for a Gato , Balao, etc. Basically, with my changes the need for the engines expert is not there his is how UBI should have done it, but they were uh lazy and just went the route of special abilities.


Understandable


I am almost finished with this portion of mod, just trying to get few settings correct for fuel usage, hopefully will make it into the release, if not, will have to be patched. Very tedious, time consuming process to get it right.


Torpedo expert will be eliminated. Crew abilities really had no bearing on torpedo performance related to magnetic and duds, they were manufacturing/design issues inherent in torpedo. I've found this ability reduces the malfunction rate for too much, esp after loading a saved game.


Agree. What about Master Torpedoman? I can see that being useful. Crews always trained to load faster.


Medic- I plan to assign the ability to a enlisted man and rename ability as "Pharmacists Mate" , as it is amore appropriate than "medic" for the Navy and the crew member having ability being a officer. All changes work well, will remain.



Never understood why UBI labeled him a "Medic" and an "Ensign". I think "PhM3", Petty Officer 3rd Class should be the lowest rank for him, due to the training involved to become one.



Chief Engineer, like I said it depends. If can eliminate ability to fix everything, but retain the pump speed (which believe can be done as I found in the files settings, havent tested yet though) will keep him, if not, he will go. With the revised (and further revised) damage model , the ability is really not needed and seems to interfere with things Some more testing to do before am sure though.



I kind of like the "Master Engineer"



Gunnery Special Ability is definitely going, as well as the "Theoretician"



Agree. Kind of useless if you ask me. Just use one of the crew that has a high "gunnery" rating.


"Theoretician"?

After reading through WWII submarine casualty lists PhM were either PO2, PO1, or Chief. Probably won't make a difference game wise.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Battery Recharge Fix will remain of course ..

I'll see about including a mod to keep them if want to use them, kind of depends on how many changes have to make and things and effects it has on other features. Things are often intertwined so may not work.

One issue with the "Engine Expert" ability is I've changed the boats some, to have more realistic acceleration/deceleration times, turning radius, (boats are a little too agile) and dive times. A Gato can now dive when hit the D key at flank speed from surface to periscope depth in 35-40 seconds, which is historically accurate, but before was only possible with the special ability. When I had the engine expert on board while testing new changes, boat will dive in 15-20 seconds lol which is uh not possible for a Gato , Balao, etc. Basically, with my changes the need for the engines expert is not there his is how UBI should have done it, but they were uh lazy and just went the route of special abilities.

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Understandable

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I am almost finished with this portion of mod, just trying to get few settings correct for fuel usage, hopefully will make it into the release, if not, will have to be patched. Very tedious, time consuming process to get it right.


Torpedo expert will be eliminated. Crew abilities really had no bearing on torpedo performance related to magnetic and duds, they were manufacturing/design issues inherent in torpedo. I've found this ability reduces the malfunction rate for too much, esp after loading a saved game.

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Agree. What about Master Torpedoman? I can see that being useful. Crews always trained to load faster.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Medic- I plan to assign the ability to a enlisted man and rename ability as "Pharmacists Mate" , as it is amore appropriate than "medic" for the Navy and the crew member having ability being a officer. All changes work well, will remain.

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Never understood why UBI labeled him a "Medic" and an "Ensign". I think "PhM3", Petty Officer 3rd Class should be the lowest rank for him, due to the training involved to become one.

during WWII the boat's medical resource was rarely an officer. if you get one in SH4 it is because the crew definition parameters were set to allow the assignment of that special ability to an officer.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Chief Engineer, like I said it depends. If can eliminate ability to fix everything, but retain the pump speed (which believe can be done as I found in the files settings, haven't tested yet though) will keep him, if not, he will go. With the revised (and further revised) damage model , the ability is really not needed and seems to interfere with things Some more testing to do before am sure though.

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

I kind of like the "Master Engineer"

i concur with Wreckless. a Master Engineer can help fix damage, especially the serious damage, however, contrary to the Ubi documentation, i have never seen one repair a destroyed item. that, my friends, is an Ubi prevarication.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Gunnery Special Ability is definitely going, as well as the "Theoretician"

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Agree. Kind of useless if you ask me. Just use one of the crew that has a high "gunnery" rating. "Theoretician"?

i disagree. having a Sharpshooter available makes your deck gun much more effective at finishing cripples.
and...a Theoretician provides leadership and can change the performance of the crew members, especially at critical times.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

during WWII the boat's medical resource was rarely an officer. if you get one in SH4 it is because the crew definition parameters were set to allow the assignment of that special ability to an officer.





i concur with Wreckless. a Master Engineer can help fix damage, especially the serious damage, however, contrary to the Ubi documentation, i have never seen one repair a destroyed item. that, my friends, is an Ubi prevarication.






i disagree. having a Sharpshooter available makes your deck gun much more effective at finishing cripples.
and...a Theoretician provides leadership and can change the performance of the crew members, especially at critical times.

Yes, UBI , likely because failed to do research/just did not care made it where officers get the medic ability, looks like can be changed, so plan to do that and rename the ability as pharmacists mate, if do not delete it all together, find it a bit "gamey".



Actually, the Master Engineer ability can repair some "destroyed" items. I've surfaced with periscope heads, torpedo tubes, etc at 100 damage and once his ability is active (in TMO update he has to be placed in the DC compartment for ability to be active) the destroyed equipment , if he can repair it, will appear on the damage priorities list, take him off, will usually remove from the list.

Sometimes, even the Master Engineer can not repair things. A lot of it has to do with if the equipment is set as "destructible" in the .zon files. By default a lot of equipment is not actually set to destructible, as in the file under destructible most were set to "No". If 100 percent damaged, they are considered destroyed but actually are just inoperable and only the Master Engineer can fix them. If set to destructible, I've noticed he sometimes can not repair things, it depends. Torpedo tubes are one of mast common issues...if go to external view and notice the outer doors missing and/or (if have external view off) when hit the "Q" button to open/close tubes, do not hear any noise, means tube was destroyed and typically is beyond repair at sea. Then again, i've surfaced and found tube inoperable, door missing, and I put Chief with special ability on the DC party and that tube gets repaired, magically the outer door will reappear lmao. That is why I am considering removing the ability, its a bit gamey, too gamey at times.

Like I mentioned, I do appreciate having a more reasonable pump time when place him on the DC party, absurdly slow pump speed has always been a issue for SH 4, so my hope is to isolate that ability, I've fond some interesting entries in the files, will test soon. If comes out like I believe it will, then will keep him around to be put on DC party when need to pump out water in emergencies.


Yes, it can help improve shots but sharpshooter is a gamey feature, having one magic crew member improved that. I improved accuracy and max firing range of sub gun crews in the mod, and if "train" them i.e. hold actual gunnery drills say when leaving port en route to midway etc , get the crew experienced, player will notice when come into real action, gunnery is better at first engagement and will improve. Another key is to have one designated gun crew, pull them from other compartments when conduct a gun action, so they are gaining experience anyways vs just sitting idle in the gun slots most of the time. IMO, this is a better way to obtain a accurate gun crew than having one "magic" crew member. Submarines were not great gunnery platforms, so don't want them being too accurate in the sim.

Theoretician, while helpful, is a bit too gamey as well, in my opinion.

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Sometimes, even the Master Engineer can not repair things. A lot of it has to do with if the equipment is set as "destructible" in the .zon files. By default a lot of equipment is not actually set to destructible, as in the file under destructible most were set to "No". If 100 percent damaged, they are considered destroyed but actually are just inoperable and only the Master Engineer can fix them. If set to destructible, I've noticed he sometimes can not repair things, it depends. Torpedo tubes are one of mast common issues...if go to external view and notice the outer doors missing and/or (if have external view off) when hit the "Q" button to open/close tubes, do not hear any noise, means tube was destroyed and typically is beyond repair at sea. Then again, i've surfaced and found tube inoperable, door missing, and I put Chief with special ability on the DC party and that tube gets repaired, magically the outer door will reappear lmao. That is why I am considering removing the ability, its a bit gamey, too gamey at times.


Maybe there is a way to code or whatever you do for things like torpedo tubes/doors, etc, that would require a drydock to no be repairable at see by crew and still keep master engineer.


I improved accuracy and max firing range of sub gun crews in the mod, and if "train" them i.e. hold actual gunnery drills say when leaving port en route to midway etc , get the crew experienced, player will notice when come into real action, gunnery is better at first engagement and will improve. Another key is to have one designated gun crew, pull them from other compartments when conduct a gun action, so they are gaining experience anyways vs just sitting idle in the gun slots most of the time. IMO, this is a better way to obtain a accurate gun crew than having one "magic" crew member. Submarines were not great gunnery platforms, so don't want them being too accurate in the sim.



How do you train the deck gun crew when there will be no targets for them to shoot? I look for the crewmen with high gunnery skills and use them for the deck gun/s and AA gun/s.


Theoretician, while helpful, is a bit too gamey as well, in my opinion.

I've still never seen the Theoretician ability in the game.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

After reading through WWII submarine casualty lists PhM were either PO2, PO1, or Chief. Probably won't make a difference game wise.

Makes a difference in immersion and historical accuracy. If must have a special ability "medic", then could have at least made it accurate to have a PhM. Hopefully, I can make this happen.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Makes a difference in immersion and historical accuracy. If must have a special ability "medic", then could have at least made it accurate to have a PhM. Hopefully, I can make this happen.

ok, ok, i did not get it at first but now i do.
you want to create a different rating within the game for PhM.
good luck with that. i believe that UBI had hardwired the 5 or 6 rates that exist today BUT you may be able to create a new one in the Ranks and Qualifications files.