[TEC] - Solved !!!! Lost Radar Contacts When Sub Heading South (90-270)

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Also note that the radar sensor, is probably NOT in the same location on every sub. Assuuming the game takes this into account. If it does It could be X meters high on one sub, and be X+1 meters high on another. If this is the case I do not think there will be a universal fix for all subs.

If i not remember bad from SH III it was the position for the sensor, but must have not too much influence, few meters up or down in this case.

In example if you put an hydrophone at maxsensroheight -10, and give it angles 90-180 you will not pick up a surface contact by few meters.

But here the iportant, i think so are the angles, to have a 0-180 beam at zero meters or at 8 meters must not change too much the sensor range.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Naturally, zeroing out the MinSensorHeight didn't yield any positive results that i could tell. Is there another variable at work here that is not represented in the tweak files?

As always, correct me if im wrong. I dont want to mislead anyone if i have it all messed up in my perception of it.

I think similar... there is some entry wrong.

Changes made do not reflects the souposed/spected behavior... :hmm:

Originally Posted by Jace11

I replaced the sensors file with the original bugged 1.2 version that came straight from the patch. The single sweep button didnt work then either... Is it definatly working after 1.2 with no tweaks in the sensors file???

Could try changing SD elevation from Min1 Max179 to Min2 max 178

I tryed 1-179, 2-178.... nothing happen. :hmm:

[akdavis]

Originally Posted by Redwine

I still catching the ships contacts with this file

Into map and into SD PPI....

Why ?

Plus "one search sweep" seems to not works...

SD has no display. If the PPI is accessible, you have SJ radar installed (or maybe SV, I guess).

Problem is, SD radar incorrectly feeds contacts to the SJ A-scope and PPI display, so if you have both installed, you will see both types of contacts, but I do believe it is the SD detecting air and SJ detecting surface.

edit: that is unless something really changed with 1.2 and they gave SD access to the displays without SJ installed at all, which means they just took a problem and made it worse. I'll have to double check in a sub with SD only.

[Jace11]

Yup its best to test the SD without SJ...

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by akdavis

SD has no display. If the PPI is accessible, you have SJ radar installed (or maybe SV, I guess).

Problem is, SD radar incorrectly feeds contacts to the SJ A-scope and PPI display, so if you have both installed, you will see both types of contacts, but I do believe it is the SD detecting air and SJ detecting surface.

I was switching off the SJ before test. :hmm:

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Yup its best to test the SD without SJ...

Yes. I've noted that the SJ by itself (using 1941 SD with SJ values) the SJ and SJ-I will not pick up aircraft with it's current setting because MaxHeight is too low. They used 200 in v1.1 and it's down to 80 in v1.2 .

So far, I've tested a value of 500 for MaxHeight before it picks up a/c, however, this is based on MinHeight=6 (1.1 default). I'm guessing perhaps 255-300 before it detects a/c.

[Jace11]

Originally Posted by Redwine

I was switching off the SJ before test. :hmm:

Try picking an early sub that has no SJ and compare to what you saw before. It may change it may not, but at least then the SJ is definatley not being used..

Regards SJ and planes... yup min height is 80, but it will pick and track a plane at 50m on the PPI. I have tested this.

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..

Great work Jace !!!!

Might I suggest increasing the SURFACE value. I've tested this once to the extreme so far with this :

MinHeight=6
MaxHeight=2500
Surface=4500

The result .... detected H6K at 9000 meters, all other a/c NOT, ship's reduced (mostly full broadside detected within 12k)

I believe, using Ducimus' radar picture (which is very real world drawing by the way) since you raised the elevation off the ground that the SURFACE area being exposed is reduced for the ships because it is now "painting" the superstructure and the masts instead of the hull.

Suggestion (I'm going to test this too) : Slowly raised the Surface in 200 increments (starting with 200) without changing anything else. This is currently where I'm going to start my test (blue=changes from v1.2 default) :

PreciseRange = 40000 (initial test to verify if/when the aircraft appear)
MinHeight = 8.3 (Ducimus work)
MaxHeight = 1500 (500 above H8K altitude?)
Surface = 200
MinElevation = 1 (Jace work)
MaxElevation = 179 (Jace work)
ProbInsideArc= 0 (needs to be 100% for test)

Note :
I discovered in the folder (data/air) in the respective aircraft SIM file, each aircraft has a min_height value. Based on Jace's test, most a/c are at 500m, while low altitude a/c have an unknown height. The values for min_height in this file appear to be divided by 10. Here's some examples :

1. AFB_A6M2_Zero / min_height = 50 (500m??)
2. ALBS_G4M_Betty / min_height = 5 (50m ???)
3. ALBS_H6K / min_height = 50
4. ALBS_H8K / min_height = 100 (1000m ???)
5. ADB_D3A1_VAL / min_height = 50

So, If I'm right (I've been know to be wrong ), we need to either give the G4M some altitude or lower MinHeight for the SD to read 5. I suggest the former and give the G4M a value of 50 for the TEST ONLY and then play with the numbers later during the final mod build of the SD.

[Jace11]

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.

Offically the SD-1 and SD-2 sets could pick up a medium bomber at 10000 feet (3000m) at about 15-25 miles. I picked up a betty at this alt at 16nm. This is pretty irrelevent though as most planes in the campaign operate lower than this (I think at 500m) though some of the larger planes sometimes appear to be at high alt..

Low flying planes will sneak under it still.

The important thing is ridding the SD of ship contacts.

I tested in a porpoise without SJ.

Also I tested in heavy seas and heavy fog at night....

The reason I did this was if visibility is bad a ship will get closer to you unobserved. Therefore as it gets closer it could enter the SD beam before visual sighting, therefore you will get a radar contact..

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.

Offically the SD-1 and SD-2 sets could pick up a medium bomber at 10000 feet (3000m) at about 15-25 miles. I picked up a betty at this alt at 16nm. This is pretty irrelevent though as most planes in the campaign operate lower than this (I think at 500m) though some of the larger planes sometimes appear to be at high alt..

Low flying planes will sneak under it still.

The important thing is ridding the SD of ship contacts.

I tested in a porpoise without SJ.

Also I tested in heavy seas and heavy fog at night....

The reason I did this was if visibility is bad a ship will get closer to you unobserved. Therefore as it gets closer it could enter the SD beam before visual sighting, therefore you will get a radar contact..

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

Once again Ducimus comes through!!
Thank you for your work!
I agree with you and sounds like this is the most realistic .

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Jace11

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

Sounds so good, i will try it right now...

[Mraah]

THANK YOU EVERYONE , who contributed to a more realistic SD !!!!!!!

Handing out cold packs for the lumpy heads to :
Ducimus
Redwine
Jace11
letterboy1
Jungman
akdavis

Did I miss anybody???? Holler!

It was purely happenstance that I came across the original ElelvationMax problem and I appreciate the effort by everyone on this odd problem to figure out what in the wild-wild-world-of-sports was going on!!

Thanks again. Perhaps a new thread should be opened...
... [WIP] The Real SD/SJ ???? hmmm.

Rob

[shad43]

Great news and great work, thanks

You should release this so skippers can find it, all the radar threads have made it tough
to find the best/right file.

[Jace11]

Its not perfect...

There are still problems.

[CaptainCox]

Well it will do me for tonight. Great WORK MAN! Will try it out 1st thing in the morn. Thing is, there is some peeps here that wont give up, and thats the spirit 100%, keep it up guys, there is only one way but many to find the right answer!

[Steeltrap]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Its not perfect...

There are still problems.

That's a suitable summation of the world!! The best you (or anyone) can hope to do is leave it a better place than you found it, and you've certainly done that!!

Would be good if there were a way to do this without minitweaker. I don't have it, and a crappy 56k modem makes large D/L difficult for me (the programme is quite big, I seem to recall).

Cheers