Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I want my lend lease money back.

Plus our billions and billions of development aid, technical aid, military (!) aid, economic aid since 1989.

[Skybird]

Norway has arrested four Russians who photographed plenty of critical energy infrastructure. extensive photo material has been confiscated.


German secret servic ehas warned policy-.makers that russia has made a deicison to wage an udneclared war against the West and especially Germany, and that sabotage of and attacks against energy and critical infratsdrucre miust be expected.


Maybe we should start to pay out Russia the change in the currency it has choosen, and cybersabotage its own infrastrtuxcre: powerplants. Pipeline controls, etc etc. I believe in reciprocity, in good and bad times. And the Russian powergrids and supply grids are as open and vulnerable as ours - if not more.

[Jimbuna]

Quite an eventful evening was had by all I see.

So, where to begin.....

Whilst taking into account how current events in Ukraine can be so emotive on everybody regardless of which side they support, I must stress that anyone posting in this thread must give due recognition to the fact and try to remain calm.

There are points made that I personally agree with and there are other points I have a fundamental disagreement with.

If you disagree with something posted then you obviously have a right to reply/challenge. After all, that is what forum posting is about but if you are going to resort to swearing and name calling then you are clearly in breach of the forum 'FAQ & Rules (see link at the top of each page/board)

I'm now going to report this post I've made so that the forum owner is aware of what has happened and in so doing enable him to understand why I have resorted to taking any remedial action should that be necessary in the future.

I'll end by respectfully suggesting that it is easier to ignore someone rather than take the bait thereby fanning the flames.

I thank you all for your cooperation in advance.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

You engage in whataboutism and judging historical events by modern standard in defending Putin's land grab. I want my lend lease money back.

What's wrong with Lend-Lease?
Russia in 2006 fully paid off these debt obligations.
So, you are not looking for "your money" there.
You should be more worried when Ukraine starts to repay debts under the current Lend-Lease.
Ask your government how much "your money" it has already sent to Ukraine, and will continue to send in the future.

I do not justify Putin.
but for some reason you always support double standards. When a small incident happened at the capitol, everyone immediately shouted that this was an attempted coup d'état.
When the legally elected president was actually swept away in Ukraine, then by your standards, this is no coup d'état.

And this was all encouraged by the Americans - in the rebellious square in Kyiv, weren't there high-ranking American civil servants?

In general, this is, of course, a brilliant plan - two Slavic peoples are methodically destroying each other, and the beneficiaries of all this madness are holed up overseas.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Nord Stream blast 'blew away 50 metres of pipe'

At least 50 metres (164ft) of an underwater pipeline bringing Russian gas to Germany is thought to have been destroyed by a blast last month.

Video shot by a Norwegian robotics company, published by Swedish newspaper Expressen, appears to show the massive tear in the Nord Stream 1 pipe.

Danish police believe "powerful explosions" blew four holes in the pipe and its newer twin, Nord Stream 2.

It is still unknown who or what caused the blasts amid suspicions of sabotage.

Gas deliveries have been suspended since the 26 September explosions on the concrete-reinforced steel pipes crossing the Baltic Sea.

The Kremlin has accused Western investigators of seeking to blame Russia for the damage.

"Elementary logic" shows damaging the pipeline was not in the Russian interest, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Tuesday.

Western leaders have stopped short of directly accusing Russia but the EU has previously accused Russia of using its gas supplies as a weapon against the West over its support for Ukraine.

Working with Expressen, Blueye Robotics used a submersible drone to film the twisted and bent metal of the Nord Stream pipe 80m beneath the surface of the sea.

Parts of the pipeline are either missing or buried in the seabed, the company said.

"It is only an extreme force that can bend metal that thick in the way we are seeing," drone operator Trond Larsen told Expressen.

Danish police findings appear to confirm those of Swedish authorities who have also been investigating the leaks in the pipelines.

"The inspections have confirmed that there has been extensive damage to Nord Stream 1 and 2 in the Danish exclusive economic zone," said Danish police.

German, Danish, and Swedish authorities have all been investigating the incident but Swedish prosecutors reportedly rejected a joint investigation out of fears of sharing sensitive information related to national security.

Russia previously demanded to be involved in any investigations, saying the damage was in international waters, but Denmark and Sweden refused.

The Nord Stream 1 pipeline has not transported any gas since August when Russia closed it down, saying it needed maintenance.

It stretches 1,200km (745 miles) from the Russian coast near St Petersburg to north-eastern Germany.

Nord Stream 2 was still awaiting clearance for use when Russia invaded Ukraine in February.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63297085

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

In general, this is, of course, a brilliant plan - two Slavic peoples are methodically destroying each other, and the beneficiaries of all this madness are holed up overseas.

If Russia would calm down and stop attacking Ukraine, punt their dictator and try to get control to their govt and the corrupt system that is syphoning off their treasury I'm pretty sure the US would be your friend.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

If Russia would calm down and stop attacking Ukraine, punt their dictator and try to get control to their govt and the corrupt system that is syphoning off their treasury I'm pretty sure the US would be your friend.

Maybe.
But in this case, the Americans only added fuel to the fire. Why provoke Putin? Invariably, where on the territory of the former USSR, American diplomacy showed interest, armed conflicts arose. Georgia, for example. Didn't the Americans oversee the revolution there?
Moreover, before the Ukrainian invasion, Putin demanded for himself some kind of security guarantees regarding the expansion of NATO. But they didn't talk to him about it.
He was simply provoked. Well, he fell into this Ukrainian trap. I do not see a peaceful end to this war. Ukraine cannot lose this war - because it simply will not. Well, Putin's loss will simply lead to his physical existence.
I don’t whitewash either side - everyone here turned out to be devilishly good ...

And in fact, the issue with Putin itself is unresolvable in Russia, since all the laws have been corrected to please him.
Moreover, he is a lifelong dictator.
There is currently no mechanism to legally remove him. And he himself will never give up power.
Only death will separate him from us.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

Maybe.
But in this case, the Americans only added fuel to the fire. Why provoke Putin? Invariably, where on the territory of the former USSR, American diplomacy showed interest, armed conflicts arose. Georgia, for example. Didn't the Americans oversee the revolution there?
Moreover, before the Ukrainian invasion, Putin demanded for himself some kind of security guarantees regarding the expansion of NATO. But they didn't talk to him about it.
He was simply provoked. Well, he fell into this Ukrainian trap. I do not see a peaceful end to this war. Ukraine cannot lose this war - because it simply will not. Well, Putin's loss will simply lead to his physical existence.
I don’t whitewash either side - everyone here turned out to be devilishly good ...

And in fact, the issue with Putin itself is unresolvable in Russia, since all the laws have been corrected to please him.
Moreover, he is a lifelong dictator.
There is currently no mechanism to legally remove him. And he himself will never give up power.
Only death will separate him from us.

What of the security of the Ukraine, Poland, Germany..... The list goes on. You seem to forget the history of the USSR in subjugating it neighbors for decades. It has been only Russia that threatens the world with Nuclear war. You must know if that happens, Russia is signing it's own death warrant as the U.S and other countries will respond with their own Nuclear weapons. Chances are, both you and I and millions of others will die in the exchange of weapons and Nuclear fallout. Does that sound good to you ? Putrid's threats of Nuclear war are only an example of his military's incompetence and ineptitude.

Putrid has decried the loss of the greater " Soviet Union." In truth, because of the political system there, Russia has never been more than a large third world country and Autocracy. Putrid wants to reclaim those countries that formed the former" Warsaw Pact " forces. You must know this will never happen and those former countries will go after Russia with a vengeance if Putrid makes a move on them.

The United States has nothing to do with this. These countries decided they love liberty, freedom and the right to think for themselves. They have an inalienable right to do that. If you like living in Russia and being led around by the nose and having others do your thinking for you, that's your right as well. Good luck with that.

The Ukraine reserves the right to have and maintain it's freedom as well. Only a small man and dictator like Putrid would have an issue with that. One thing is certain. The countries that had been subjugated by Russia will never return to the fold. You and Russia will see war up close and personal if you decide to try to reclaim those countries. The Ukraine is an example of this.

If you don't like what is happening in Russia, show some courage and remove him or take him out. That's a problem and decision for the people of Russia. If you do like what Russia is doing, then live with the consequences.

[Jimbuna]

Ukraine war: Energy situation 'critical' after Russian attacks

Russian forces have again targeted Ukraine's energy facilities, leaving part of Kyiv and other cities with no power and water.

A presidential aide said the situation across Ukraine was now critical.

Prosecutors say two people were killed in an attack on the capital. Plumes of smoke were seen billowing from around a power station near the Dnipro river.

Power and water were cut in Zhytomyr, west of Kyiv, and two facilities were badly damaged in Dnipro.

"Everyone should be ready, first, to save electricity, and second, rolling power blackouts are also possible if strikes continue," said Kyrylo Tymoshenko, the deputy head of the president's office.

"The entire population needs to prepare for a tough winter."

President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Twitter on Tuesday that in the past eight days, 30% of Ukraine's power stations had been destroyed, "causing massive blackouts across the country".

Ukrainian energy firm DTEK said two of its thermal power plants had been significantly damaged by Russian shelling, leaving one worker dead and six others wounded.

Russia has stepped up attacks in recent weeks on electricity infrastructure in cities away from the front lines. Officials have rushed to repair the damage, but the strikes, ahead of winter, have raised concerns about how the system will respond.

The latest attacks came 24 hours after "kamikaze" drones - believed to have been supplied by Iran - killed at least nine people in Kyiv and Sumy, as strikes on infrastructure caused power cuts in hundreds of towns and villages.

It was not initially clear to what extent drones were involved on Tuesday. Ukraine said Russian bombers had fired missiles and one S-300 anti-aircraft missile had hit a residential building in the southern city of Mykolaiv overnight, killing one person. The city's flower market was also destroyed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63297239

[Jimbuna]

Germany will support sanctions against Iran for supply of drones to Russia, - Berbok

German Foreign Minister Annalena Berbock supports strengthening sanctions against Iran for supplying military drones to Russia.

This is reported by Censor.NET with refence to LIGA.net.

"In my opinion, in connection with the supply of drones from Iran to Russia, there should be another package of sanctions against the Iranian regime," she said.

Solid evidence will show, the minister said, that both regimes "are not only brothers in spirit, but also support each other by supplying weapons." Meanwhile, she noted, the origin of the drones used by Russia must be proven: "Of course, everything must be legally clean. The kamikaze drones that were also shot down in Kyiv are very clear where they are from."

"That's why our only response, given the dire situation in Iran itself, is that we have launched a [new] package of sanctions," added the German foreign minister.

Asked by a journalist how these new sanctions will hurt Iran, which has been living under them for decades and has successfully developed a weapons program, Burbok said that "if we do this together as a global community, there will be consequences." Source: https://censor.net/en/n3374576

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Nord Stream blast 'blew away 50 metres of pipe'

At least 50 metres (164ft) of an underwater pipeline bringing Russian gas to Germany is thought to have been destroyed by a blast last month.


(...)



Nord Stream 2 was still awaiting clearance for use when Russia invaded Ukraine in February.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63297085

For heaven's sake, I hope somebody blows up the remaining parts of the pipes as well - just to make sure that nobody can ever plan with approaching Russia for reopening it. There shall be no way back as long as Russia is what it is.



The saltwatrer should increase the damages anyway, constantly.