US Politics Thread 2021-24 - Page 336

Rockstar · 01-12-23, 07:35 PM

If the regime didn’t have a Biden replacement lined up, we would have never known about the classified docs.

The only question is, who will it be? Hopefully it’s someone with an awareness of what’s going on around him. And doesn’t need a note written by someone else to explain to the public why classified documents were in a cardboard box in his garage. That was really pathetic.

Rockstar · 01-12-23, 08:11 PM

mapuc · 01-13-23, 06:53 PM

The GOP are not letting Biden and the Dems forgetting this

Quote:

Four unanswered questions about the Biden classified documents

"What's in them?"

"Who had access?"

"Why was there a delay?"

"What could the penalties be?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64267983

Markus

Rockstar · 01-13-23, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

The GOP are not letting Biden and the Dems forgetting this

.

Nobody should forget this, let’s face it leaving classified material laying around in a car garage is a serious breach of security.

Four unanswered questions about the Biden classified documents

"What's in them?"I doubt any one will release photographic evidence. We just know some were intel sheets on certain countries.

"Who had access?" Nobody knows because they were not locked in a safe, nor was there a chain of custody record. They were just out there left unattended in cardboard boxes.

"Why was there a delay?" My guess is people assumed the information was being handled IAW SOP. Until it wasn’t.

"What could the penalties be?" Unless they find someone was making copies, selling or giving them away. I doubt there will be any penalties. Unless of course it’s Trump.

Buddahaid · 01-13-23, 07:20 PM

Or like Trump uses every available means to obstruct.

MaDef · 01-13-23, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Or like Trump uses every available means to obstruct.

Now.. Now.... Stay focused, this is about Biden and his screwup.

Rockstar · 01-13-23, 08:23 PM

Still chasing unicorns huh?

Read below it's the final decision of the case Trump brought before the government claiming executive privilege. Cry as he might the government shot down his request in flames.

Quote:

“[U]nless the incumbent President ‘uphold[s]’ the claim asserted by the former President, ‘the Archivist discloses the Presidential record,'” Wall said while citing an executive order and a federal regulation. “For the same reasons,” Wall continued, “I have concluded that there is no reason to grant your request for a further delay before the FBI and others in the Intelligence Community begin their reviews. Accordingly, NARA will provide the FBI access to the records in question, as requested by the incumbent President, beginning as early as Thursday, May 12, 2022.”

If afterwards he refused the decision and hid, destroyed or barricaded the documents or somehow prevented the FBI from carrying out their duty. Then he might be charged with obstruction. Instead, he complied.

Buddahaid · 01-13-23, 08:40 PM

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

em2nought · 01-13-23, 11:50 PM

It's been a good week!

Buddahaid · 01-14-23, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by em2nought

It's been a good week!

Sure. The House has defunded the IRS hiring of 87,000 "agents" except Congress 101 gets in the way and it's not as simple as a sound bite. Maybe in two years that could happen but I doubt it, although that's still possible.

Skybird · 01-14-23, 12:21 AM

Trump actively hindered investigation, Biden cooperates.

Trump tried to dispose unwanted secret material in the toilet, Biden not.

Trump tried to corrupt researching investigation authorities, Biden not.

Trump is a bloody dirtbag, Biden not so much like Trump.

Of course the great orange party tries what it can to blow it out of proportion.

Foolish old man. Age has its costs, obviously.

And yes, I assume intention in Trumps case, in Bidens case not. The vultures will not made to stop circling, though.

Politics. Swim with the sharks, get bitten by the sharks.

Buddahaid · 01-14-23, 12:26 AM

Jack Smith will have Trump's ass this year despite all the twooths Trump posts.

I know many don't agree but let's see how it plays out this year.

Skybird · 01-14-23, 01:04 AM

Der Tagesspiegel has something more reasonable about all this dramissima:
---------------------------
"Top Secret" Papers at Biden and Trump?: Why secrecy can also hurt

The document scandals are not about dangerous security breaches. They point to an exaggerated trend toward secrecy. An analysis.

Can it really be: Top-secret classified documents on which U.S. national security depends are turning up in the most amazing places? Which, moreover, are unguarded.

For example, in boxes in Joe Biden's private garage, just behind his vintage convertible, a 1967 Corvette Stingray that he is rarely allowed to drive. And in a closet next to Donald Trump's swimming pool at his hotel complex in Mar-a-Lago, Florida.

The opposing party in each case is trying to turn the significance of the finds into a state affair: criminal handling of "top secret" documents. That is why special investigators, parliamentary committees of inquiry, and possibly even impeachment proceedings are imperative.
The damage caused by the blockade is likely to be greater

Of course, it could also be the other way around: A political spectacle is being staged here for election campaign purposes. The resulting damage to society is likely to be greater in the end than the potential damage if the alleged secrets in the papers were to reach the public and thus the hands of global political opponents - which has not been the case so far.

The dispute over the state documents, which ex-President Trump and ex-Vice President Biden stashed in private rooms and did not turn over to the National Archives after their respective terms in office, as required, will contribute to the fact that the House will hardly deal with substantive policy in the year and a half until the 2024 election. Instead, it will serve purely as an election campaign stage.

At the same time, this handling of the problem prevents another investigation, which would arguably be just as urgent. "The government classifies too many documents as secret," says Elizabeth Goitein, an expert on the limits of executive power at the Brennan Center for Justice. In doing so, both camps make it more difficult for the respective opposition and the media to scrutinize their government's actions.

What does the public even know about the contents of the documents? The claimed explosiveness thrives on the extensive use of the terms "classified" and "secret" and the widespread fantasy ideas about the unknown world of intelligence agencies. The image that ordinary citizens form of it is shaped more by spy novels and movies than by reality.

"Classified" means that a document may only be used internally and is not intended for the public. Decisive for the explosiveness, however, is in which of the subcategories it falls. In Germany, there are four: for official use only, confidential, secret or top secret.

So far, virtually nothing is known about the contents of the papers that have surfaced in Biden's private estates as well as former places of employment as vice president. In the case of the Trump documents, the state of knowledge is only slightly better.

What little is known indicates that the proportion of explosive classified material is small and does not suggest a deliberate withholding of "top secret" papers. The specific numbers vary. Of the 26 boxes full of documents seized in the latest search at Mar-a-Lago, the New York Times reports that among them were 11 files classified as "classified." And only one was marked "top secret". In it it concerns U.S. knowledge about the Iranian missile program, thus not information about own weapon systems or security gaps. In all, Trump had kept 300 "Classified" documents.

The material seized by the FBI is described by the "Washington Post" as follows: 13,000 documents, of which 103 were "Classified" and 18 "Top Secret".

The situation was similar in the affairs surrounding the U.S. documents on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and diplomatic reports that became public via Wikileaks. A large part of the alleged revelations had long been public knowledge, such as the civilian victims of military operations, including the outrageous Baghdad video.

More politically interesting is the two presidents' handling of the current allegations. Trump is stonewalling and obstructing justice. Biden's misconduct is far less, but he too is cheating. The first documents were found on Nov. 2, a week before the congressional election. He has admitted as much only now.
--------------------------

There is a general trend in Western nations that governments try to escape from the observation by the public. They claim to fight for transparency, and in reality do all what they can to prevent it and keep their motivations, deals made, motives for decisions and connectons to persons as intransparent as possible. Same takes place on international level in international organsiations, namely the EU. And the ministries in Germany have just days ago been accused again to have fundamentally increased the obstruction of transparency in their internal structures, and that decision makers were called to no longer document their decisions and motives and associated events in digital or paper formats so that in later times their work and reasons for their decisions shall no longer be reconstructable. In other wordS: the obstruction is intentional, its not by flaws in the system, but it is wanted. You can bet money on that it is in the Us the same way. Add to all this the growin g gagging and intimdiaiton of politically non-conformal reporters and jpruanpists, and their limiting of access to sources. All what politicians then still need to escape any chance to ever be held accountable for anything uncomfortable for them is that they are gifted with the blessing of suffering from a short memory so that they can always say "I cannot recall this, I cannot remember that".

Buddahaid · 01-14-23, 01:16 AM

I'll not defend Biden, or Trump, for breaches in security. Prosecute them both to the full extent of the law, but don't excuse Trump because Biden has been found with classified documents. Stupid kindergarten mentality is, well, just stupid.

Rockstar · 01-14-23, 09:06 AM

Trump had his documents in a safe and it was no secret where they were. Agree with it or not, everyone knew why he wanted to retain them. He took the path of fighting the government claiming executive privilege and lost the battle when the judge said no. Like Biden, he then had no choice but to cooperate. The FBI was then detailed to go to that safe have it unlocked and retrieve the documents. Drama? Yes. But breach of security? Hardly, since NARA knew what documents they were looking for and where they were located (chain of custody).

A breach of security is when for example certain Bidenettes working for Mr. Bungle take classified documents, loose track of their whereabouts, leave them unattended in empty office spaces, car garages and who knows where in cardboard boxes so that anyone and their mothers could read them, no chain of custody record, or known reason for their removal. Like Trump, Mr. Bungle and his gang have no choice but to cooperate.

But unless some low ranking go’fer was on the take, selling the information or making copies etc. Nobody is going to jail.

01-12-23, 07:35 PM	#5026
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,832 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If the regime didn’t have a Biden replacement lined up, we would have never known about the classified docs. The only question is, who will it be? Hopefully it’s someone with an awareness of what’s going on around him. And doesn’t need a note written by someone else to explain to the public why classified documents were in a cardboard box in his garage. That was really pathetic. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

01-12-23, 08:11 PM	#5027
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,832 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	__________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.

01-13-23, 07:20 PM	#5030
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,558 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Or like Trump uses every available means to obstruct. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

01-13-23, 08:40 PM	#5033
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,558 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Thanks, I needed a good laugh. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

01-13-23, 11:50 PM	#5034
em2nought Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,266 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's been a good week! __________________ Looks like we need a Lemon Law for Presidents now! DNC sold us a dud, and they knew it.

01-14-23, 12:21 AM	#5036
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,494 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Trump actively hindered investigation, Biden cooperates. Trump tried to dispose unwanted secret material in the toilet, Biden not. Trump tried to corrupt researching investigation authorities, Biden not. Trump is a bloody dirtbag, Biden not so much like Trump. Of course the great orange party tries what it can to blow it out of proportion. Foolish old man. Age has its costs, obviously. And yes, I assume intention in Trumps case, in Bidens case not. The vultures will not made to stop circling, though. Politics. Swim with the sharks, get bitten by the sharks. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-14-23, 12:26 AM	#5037
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,558 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Jack Smith will have Trump's ass this year despite all the twooths Trump posts. I know many don't agree but let's see how it plays out this year. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

01-14-23, 01:04 AM	#5038
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,494 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Der Tagesspiegel has something more reasonable about all this dramissima: --------------------------- "Top Secret" Papers at Biden and Trump?: Why secrecy can also hurt The document scandals are not about dangerous security breaches. They point to an exaggerated trend toward secrecy. An analysis. Can it really be: Top-secret classified documents on which U.S. national security depends are turning up in the most amazing places? Which, moreover, are unguarded. For example, in boxes in Joe Biden's private garage, just behind his vintage convertible, a 1967 Corvette Stingray that he is rarely allowed to drive. And in a closet next to Donald Trump's swimming pool at his hotel complex in Mar-a-Lago, Florida. The opposing party in each case is trying to turn the significance of the finds into a state affair: criminal handling of "top secret" documents. That is why special investigators, parliamentary committees of inquiry, and possibly even impeachment proceedings are imperative. The damage caused by the blockade is likely to be greater Of course, it could also be the other way around: A political spectacle is being staged here for election campaign purposes. The resulting damage to society is likely to be greater in the end than the potential damage if the alleged secrets in the papers were to reach the public and thus the hands of global political opponents - which has not been the case so far. The dispute over the state documents, which ex-President Trump and ex-Vice President Biden stashed in private rooms and did not turn over to the National Archives after their respective terms in office, as required, will contribute to the fact that the House will hardly deal with substantive policy in the year and a half until the 2024 election. Instead, it will serve purely as an election campaign stage. At the same time, this handling of the problem prevents another investigation, which would arguably be just as urgent. "The government classifies too many documents as secret," says Elizabeth Goitein, an expert on the limits of executive power at the Brennan Center for Justice. In doing so, both camps make it more difficult for the respective opposition and the media to scrutinize their government's actions. What does the public even know about the contents of the documents? The claimed explosiveness thrives on the extensive use of the terms "classified" and "secret" and the widespread fantasy ideas about the unknown world of intelligence agencies. The image that ordinary citizens form of it is shaped more by spy novels and movies than by reality. "Classified" means that a document may only be used internally and is not intended for the public. Decisive for the explosiveness, however, is in which of the subcategories it falls. In Germany, there are four: for official use only, confidential, secret or top secret. So far, virtually nothing is known about the contents of the papers that have surfaced in Biden's private estates as well as former places of employment as vice president. In the case of the Trump documents, the state of knowledge is only slightly better. What little is known indicates that the proportion of explosive classified material is small and does not suggest a deliberate withholding of "top secret" papers. The specific numbers vary. Of the 26 boxes full of documents seized in the latest search at Mar-a-Lago, the New York Times reports that among them were 11 files classified as "classified." And only one was marked "top secret". In it it concerns U.S. knowledge about the Iranian missile program, thus not information about own weapon systems or security gaps. In all, Trump had kept 300 "Classified" documents. The material seized by the FBI is described by the "Washington Post" as follows: 13,000 documents, of which 103 were "Classified" and 18 "Top Secret". The situation was similar in the affairs surrounding the U.S. documents on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and diplomatic reports that became public via Wikileaks. A large part of the alleged revelations had long been public knowledge, such as the civilian victims of military operations, including the outrageous Baghdad video. More politically interesting is the two presidents' handling of the current allegations. Trump is stonewalling and obstructing justice. Biden's misconduct is far less, but he too is cheating. The first documents were found on Nov. 2, a week before the congressional election. He has admitted as much only now. -------------------------- There is a general trend in Western nations that governments try to escape from the observation by the public. They claim to fight for transparency, and in reality do all what they can to prevent it and keep their motivations, deals made, motives for decisions and connectons to persons as intransparent as possible. Same takes place on international level in international organsiations, namely the EU. And the ministries in Germany have just days ago been accused again to have fundamentally increased the obstruction of transparency in their internal structures, and that decision makers were called to no longer document their decisions and motives and associated events in digital or paper formats so that in later times their work and reasons for their decisions shall no longer be reconstructable. In other wordS: the obstruction is intentional, its not by flaws in the system, but it is wanted. You can bet money on that it is in the Us the same way. Add to all this the growin g gagging and intimdiaiton of politically non-conformal reporters and jpruanpists, and their limiting of access to sources. All what politicians then still need to escape any chance to ever be held accountable for anything uncomfortable for them is that they are gifted with the blessing of suffering from a short memory so that they can always say "I cannot recall this, I cannot remember that". __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 01-14-23 at 01:16 AM.

01-14-23, 01:16 AM	#5039
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,558 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	I'll not defend Biden, or Trump, for breaches in security. Prosecute them both to the full extent of the law, but don't excuse Trump because Biden has been found with classified documents. Stupid kindergarten mentality is, well, just stupid. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

01-14-23, 09:06 AM	#5040
Rockstar Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 11,832 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Trump had his documents in a safe and it was no secret where they were. Agree with it or not, everyone knew why he wanted to retain them. He took the path of fighting the government claiming executive privilege and lost the battle when the judge said no. Like Biden, he then had no choice but to cooperate. The FBI was then detailed to go to that safe have it unlocked and retrieve the documents. Drama? Yes. But breach of security? Hardly, since NARA knew what documents they were looking for and where they were located (chain of custody). A breach of security is when for example certain Bidenettes working for Mr. Bungle take classified documents, loose track of their whereabouts, leave them unattended in empty office spaces, car garages and who knows where in cardboard boxes so that anyone and their mothers could read them, no chain of custody record, or known reason for their removal. Like Trump, Mr. Bungle and his gang have no choice but to cooperate. But unless some low ranking go’fer was on the take, selling the information or making copies etc. Nobody is going to jail. __________________ Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. Last edited by Rockstar; 01-14-23 at 11:25 AM.