Mine Detection?

[Kojo62]

Ahoy fellow Skippers. I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on Mine detection and avoidance techniques?

I was on the stock mission in the Strait of Hormuz where you deploy one Seal team, then recover another, and negligently ran into a mine in between the two ops. I didn't even know there were mines to be found in this strait, and I'd like to find out what I should've done to avoid this fate.

I read in the manual that High Frequency sonar is what should be used to locate mines. But isn't that an active sonar mode? Is there any way to employ this with passive? Pinging away in this region does not strike me as a good choice, given that my orders are to remain undetected. So I'm confused here.

[Pisces]

High frequency sonar is an active kind of sonar, but because the frequency is very high the sound doesn't travel far. In reallife this may be detected (at short range), but not in the game. Also, it works a bit like a special camera view. Not like the regular active pinging sonar 2d plan-view representation. In the 688i it is a black rectangular screen on the helm display. On the Seawolf it is part of the active sonar suite, but only when set to high frequency. Akula I don't remember. Clicking on something that shows up on that screen puts a mark on the map.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by Kojo62

Ahoy fellow Skippers. I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on Mine detection and avoidance techniques?

I was on the stock mission in the Strait of Hormuz where you deploy one Seal team, then recover another, and negligently ran into a mine in between the two ops. I didn't even know there were mines to be found in this strait, and I'd like to find out what I should've done to avoid this fate.

I read in the manual that High Frequency sonar is what should be used to locate mines. But isn't that an active sonar mode? Is there any way to employ this with passive? Pinging away in this region does not strike me as a good choice, given that my orders are to remain undetected. So I'm confused here.

From the Sub Command manual...

Originally Posted by Sub Command Manual pg.150

UUVs are in passive mode when launched. However, active sonar may be necessary when
traversing a minefield. Be aware that capable ships and subs in the area can detect UUV active
sonar.

Follow these steps to enable UUV active sonar.
1. Enable the wire guide controls for the UUV as described above.
2. Click ENABLE to initiate active sonar.
3. Click PRE-ENABLE to de-activate active sonar and return to passive mode.

[Kojo62]

Originally Posted by sonar732

From the Sub Command manual...

Yes, I did read the manual on that topic after my failure. But sorry, I'm am not totally clear on how the highlighted passage addresses my question. As I asked originally, where my dillemma lies is that:

1) I didn't even know to expect mines in that area beforehand. They were not part of my orders.
2) Hi-frequency being a mode of active sonar would potentially alert other vessels to my presence there, when my orders are to stay undetected.

So I'm asking:

1) If there's a routine I should adopt to ascertain the presence of mines in all my regular operating cirumstances?
2) How can I do so and avoid detection at the same time?

Are you suggesting Sonar732 that I should always launch a UUV to sweep for mines before proceeding with any mission?

Or, as Pisces suggests, is it relatively safe to just go ahead and use hi-freq because it is short range? But even then, how do I know when I should use it, especially if I have no prior warning of potential mines in the area?

Seems like a catch-22 to me, so I figure I must be missing something.

[DrMilton]

Originally Posted by Kojo62

2) Hi-frequency being a mode of active sonar would potentially alert other vessels to my presence there, when my orders are to stay undetected.

As you probably didn't understand Pisces' reply I will reemphasize: HF sonar CANNOT be detected in SC. In real life yes but NOT in the game, so go ahead and use it.

UUV is a valuable tool in getting situational and positional awareness but WHEN and IF the conditions are proper. When are they proper? Thats for you to decide according to your information and skill. No one will give you a premade answer because there is not one. If you estimate that there is noone around to hear you, active UUV will spot the mines for you. If you 're not sure then you don't use it. Usually, intel should warn you about minefields but not always (life is tough...) so the routine for just about every decision you make (not just mines) will be from carefull to suspicious to paranoid. No ready answers.

[Kojo62]

Thanks DrMilton. I did understand Pisces answer, although I didn't quite understand what else Sonar732 was trying to tell me beyond what I'd read in the manual.

I guess I was hoping that maybe being a noob, I'd just failed to employ some standard proecedure that all the vets here would already know to do every time you take your boat out. But it doesn't sound like I'll find that obvious an answer. More like I just ran into a tough break by not expecting the mines where I found them ... although I know my C.O. would not accept that as an excuse ... nor do I.

Whatever the reason, I failed ... period. Like you said ... life is tough ...

Thanks again for your tips, folks.

[sonar732]

The Straights of Hormuz has terrible sonar dynamics. If I remember right, there is a small area of deep water. This is where you would launch your UUV and make the depth 100 feet.

I just did a quick test on this mission and when you raise all of your mast, the radio mast states that Iranian mine layers have returned to port empty. Also, I launched the UUV and detected nothing at first until it went a little farther to find a group of mines. No counter-detection message or anything which supports my theory of the straights being bad sonar dynamics.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Kojo62,

An online educational tutorial to avoid mines, here you go :
http://sikvid.com/ext-media.php?go=5726

game over!

[Stanny]

High frequency active sonar is always the most effective way for mine detection.You turn it on and simply navigate watching for mine shape objects on the display.It is quite easy,actually.It is also very useful for under ice operations and crucially needed when surfacing under ice as helps you to avoid underwater icebergs.

[Pisces]

There is no passive way to detect mines I'm afraid. (other than high frequency for the reason that was allready explained) Mines do not have many moveable parts or noisy machinery to be detected on passive sonar, when they are dormant anyway. Even it's chain or cable would not make that much noise because of wave action, I think. (but that doesn't mean much since I have no naval experience, just technical common sence) But for certain, in LWAMI 3.08 (don't know about stock) there are no passive noiselevels assigned to any mine in the game object-database. They do not emit any sound.

[Kojo62]

Thanks, mates. Your tips are all very helpful.

I am finally learning to use the high-frequency active sonar now. I've gotten in some practice by tackling a couple missions under the ice where it's really essential, as Stanny said. (I felt totally like I was in "Ice Station Zebra!" )

Now that I've had success using it there, I have a bit more confidence to go back and try that Strait of Hormuz mission again, and see if I can detect any mines. I had completed that mission once, but it was truly nothing but dumb luck that I didn't tag another mine, since I didn't know how to safely look for them.

That's really interersting about the radio message you got, Sonar732 ... I never think to check for radio intel during my missions. Something for me to keep in mind, thanks.

I'm still a pollywog, but I'm gettin' there ... I hopefully won't be one forever.


P.S. M.L., lol@"Minesweeper: The Movie!"

[dannygjk]

Hi,

I try to play my missions/games as if my posterior and the posteriors of my crew are actually in danger. Keeping that in mind, I do not take advantage of differences between a game and real life. It adds to the immersion factor, IMO. Also:
Hi,

That reminds me. I am using version 1.05 because when I installed 1.08 the game gained a bug which I did not appreciate. If you have installed 1.08 try the mission 'ice maze'. Unfortunately, I lose fixes and enhancements included in 1.08, but I prefer that to sucking seawater out of the periscope! I don't mind sucking seawater out of my snorkel, it's only an ounce, but I imagine sucking seawater out of a periscope would be an insurmountable task

dannygjk

[Sub Sailor]

Usually, there will be a message or it will tell you to beware of mines on your op orders. Also, it has been my experience that SC reflects the actual real world. You probably know, from your readings where mines could b expected, the Straits are for sure a place to expect mines. Off Korea and the Formosa Straits are other places. The Sea of Oshtok and especially in the Kurile Islands you will usually detect mines.
Use HF in any areas you might suspect mines, plus for fun in the stock mission, after the Cargo Ship sinks, look at it with HF, it is rather neat. HF is very handy and does not attract the bad guys.
Sonar 732 can tell you almost any thing you want to know about Sonar. I have learned a lot from him.
Patch to SCX for a real simulation.
good hunting

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)