Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Susexx



So it is. There the message is misleading. - this is a Ukrainian cell. Not Russian.



Unfortunately, my friend, this is not delusional madness. Or at least not devoid of soil.

I'll just leave some photos here:











such movements are not condemned there

Of course, everyone always has propaganda, but I see Western propaganda more powerful and crazy, at times.

Politics is a dirty business. Peace of mind to all of us and peaceful communication.

Such movements here in the U.S. are condemned but they are permitted primarily because of our constitution. But those kook groups and the like are carefully monitored.

[Jimbuna]

It should be remembered that Ukrainian nationalists fought on for eight years after their country was "liberated" by the Red Army in 1944, using mostly German weapons. There are plenty of places in that country that are ideal for partisan activity---even if the major cities are under Putin's control. How Putin expects to hold down 45 million people with 200,000 troops is a mystery to me---unless he really believes that millions of Ukrainians will join his boys and take up arms to support a puppet regime.

[Jimbuna]

Russian forces launch a full-scale assault on Ukraine, with its military attacking the country from the north, east and south.

People in the capital, Kyiv, have been hearing explosions and air-raid sirens throughout the day.

Thousands have been trying to flee and seek safety in neighbouring countries.

There are also renewed reports of explosions in the port city of Mariupol, home to half a million people.

Ukraine's president, dressed in military fatigues, vows to fight on, but acknowledges troop losses.

Russians seize control of the Chernobyl complex - site of the world's worst nuclear disaster.

UK and US announce fresh new sanctions on Russia, including asset freezes on banks.

President Vladimir Putin defends the invasion, saying there was no other way to defend Russia.

But US President Joe Biden says Putin's aggression will cost Russia dearly.

[Skybird]

The Wirtschaftskurier writes:

What is Putin really thinking? What does his threat mean that his enemies will experience something unprecedented? Who still has influence on the ruler in the Kremlin? Udo Lielischkies was Moscow correspondent for twelve years. The best-selling author is an intimate connoisseur of the Russian president. He says: Putin must be careful not to be swallowed up by the system himself.

Mr. Lielischkies, you lived in Russia for twelve years as a correspondent and head of the ARD studio in Moscow, you are the author of the book "In the Shadow of the Kremlin," in which you dissect Putin's Russia in great detail - tell us: What is going on in the mind of the Russian ruler?

Udo Lielischkies: No one really knows anymore, which is because he has largely withdrawn and no longer consults even formerly close advisors. He lives in isolation, and is said to be very afraid of becoming infected with Corona. It is said from those around him that he now only consults with the good Lord. It is clear that those who still reach out to him are all hardliners. They are the hawks of the secret service, the security chief, the defense minister. Putin fancies himself on a historic mission. He wants to reestablish Russia as a world power entirely in the tradition of the Soviet Union.

If it is said that he consults only with God: Is Putin a believer?

He certainly presents himself as a believer. He allows himself to be filmed with the patriarchs of Moscow. The church plays a major role in Putin's narrative of the "Russian world," the "Russki Mir" - even if very few Russians go to mass. For his Russian counter-model to the West, Putin has stirred together a rather crude potpourri: a bit of church, some glorification of the old Soviet Union and derived hatred of the states and their leaders that have turned away from Russia, alliances of men up to and including gangs of rockers - all this is supposed to somehow give rise to an idea of a state.

It is noticeable on television pictures that the president looks bloated. Is he ill?

There is speculation about this, including from Russia experts who would not lightly utter such a thing. You mentioned his face. He looks short of breath. On the other hand, there have been such speculations before, when he disappeared for many days without explanation. But I am not a medical doctor, nor do I possess a crystal ball.

What made him so bitter?

He experienced the collapse of the Soviet Union as a KGB agent in Germany. That, observers say, really pulled the rug out from under him. This "Moscow no longer answers" trauma has left its mark on him. And if you follow the events in Ukraine from this perspective, it feeds this trauma. The Orange Revolution, the demonstrations on the Maidan in Kiev in 2014. Since then, Putin has been talking about "Ukrainian fascists" and has militarized Russia even further. When my daughter sat in kindergarten in Moscow at the time wearing a stylized military uniform, I knew what the hour had come to.

Does he enjoy the support of the population?

I have many acquaintances in Russia. None of them can imagine that it is a good idea to invade Ukraine. But one should not underestimate the effect of propaganda. There are areas of Russia where nothing gets through except the information from the state-controlled media. I myself have often come to such areas, where people tell you, "Putin has brought Russia back from its knees." Putin is picking up on a mood. Large parts of the population feel humiliated by the collapse of the Soviet empire and the Westerners, who are perceived here and there as somewhat arrogant, who in the 1990s sometimes acted in cowboy fashion.

Are there actually women who have influence over him?

Putin's private life is taboo. He is divorced, and there are rumors that he is dating a gymnast. But nothing leaks out. Putin is supposed to look like a man who lives only for his country.

In 2002, Putin gave a very open-hearted speech in the Bundestag in Berlin and received a standing ovation. Does this facet of Putin still exist?

I don't think it ever existed. Putin has never been about integration with the West, which would have limited Russia in any way. He wants the undemocratic state without opposition and without an independent parliament. He rules with networks and makes his aides billionaires. His fraternity is the secret service. Perhaps he has even become their victim. Imagine a tamer in a lion cage. Apparently the lions obey him, but woe betide him if he does not meticulously observe the feeding ritual. Then they tear him apart.

What does Putin's threat of "consequences for Russia's enemies "unprecedented in their history?" mean? Will he not stop in Ukraine?

This threat is understood by many in the West as one involving nuclear weapons. What else should be unprecedented. But I don't believe in an attack on NATO countries. He is not insane. He is a ruler who has so far tried to achieve maximum effect with minimum risk in his military actions. He suspected that the West would always quickly switch to dialogue after aggression. An attack on NATO states would be something completely different. But I can imagine that non-Nato states like Georgia are rightly worried.


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


Interesting for me is the second-last question and answer. If the author is right and that world-open Putin indeed never existed, than I fell for him just like anyone else. How unflattering for me...

[Jimbuna]

Why black text Sky?

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

If I remember it correctly Russia had also a demand that NATO should leave Eastern Europe- A Demand NATO couldn't agree on.


Edit
What tool do we have to fight Russia

Sanctions-How much does these affect the Russian economy ?
Blockade-Impossible for a country of this size
Economical blockade-A possibility but it also backfire.
Preemptive strike-Strike Russia were it hurt most-NO such thing-War shall be the last thing ever.
End edit

Markus

There are only so many sanctions that can implemented before they really start hurting our own economies. How we fight now is to continue offer economic opportunities and back the current governments that are already in NATO. Like I said before NATO does not roll in with tanks and occupy land like Russia is doing at this moment. When the Soviet Union collapsed those former Warsaw Pact countries wanted to join NATO.

Unfortunetly Russia will want to take Kyiv and install a puppet government which is the last nail in the coffin and buries Ukraine’s self determination. Giving Russia control of the Black Sea, Belt Road running between Germany and China and pipeline routes. Anyone wanting to do business will now have to include Russia in negotiations. (IF successful)

[Jimbuna]

Details of Boris Johnson’s ‘largest and most severe’ sanctions against Russia https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...out&li=BBoPWjQ

[mapuc]

Skybird wrote

"This threat is understood by many in the West as one involving nuclear weapons. What else should be unprecedented. But I don't believe in an attack on NATO countries. He is not insane. He is a ruler who has so far tried to achieve maximum effect with minimum risk in his military actions. He suspected that the West would always quickly switch to dialogue after aggression. An attack on NATO states would be something completely different. But I can imagine that non-Nato states like Georgia are rightly worried.
"
(From my memory)
As you stated some page back-NATO will not use nuke/go to war in their effort in defending the Baltic States.
Then something with Poland being the....

Could remember wrong.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

NATO will only act if a member is attacked and even then that's not a certainty.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Why black text Sky?

Pardon? Its white on black and black on white for me, depending on my logon status...?!

[Jimbuna]

It is now but I can assure you it wasn't at time of posting

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

It is now but I can assure you it wasn't at time of posting

Assurances are the last thing one should discuss in this thread!

[Jimbuna]

True

[clayton]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

NATO will only act if a member is attacked and even then that's not a certainty.

You are mistaken. Putin will have his a-s handed to him if he attacks Nato.

[Jimbuna]

Maybe, maybe not...only time will tell.