US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

Arlo you have no idea who I am, you always rush to extreme stereotypes.

You and your alter ego seem to have the need to argue with everyone who is frustrated at the situation and thus they turn their frustration on you. Enjoy all that negative energy, that is what sin eaters use to do.

A sin-eater is a person who consumes a ritual meal in order to spiritually take on the sins of a deceased person. The food was believed to absorb the sins of a recently dead person, thus absolving the soul of the person. Sin-eaters, as a consequence, carried the sins of all people whose sins they had eaten.

What's the point in arguing (I don't mean fighting) about this if there is no counterpoint to keep it honest? I haven't once said Biden did a great job. I've pointed out how useless it is to say Trump would have done it better.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by mapuc

What I tried to say was that it would have been chaos at the airport. Whoever is the President. And there's no doubt about it.

Markus

Not necessarily. The military takes direction in a top-down manner. When the administration is a bunch of morons who provide no or conflicting direction, military leadership merely pushes that direction down there line without shooting any common sense. They're not the best war-fighters in the military, just the best bureaucrats.

You also can't deny the impact of the Department of State's ineptitude under the Biden admin - the evacuation was actually their rodeo, supported by military presence.

No - the entire Biden administration and the JCS military leadership are a bunch of incompetents more concerned about CYA in the face of their desire for a Sep 11 photo-op going completely pear-shaped. They don't understand the region, the culture, or the enemy. These a$$hole CIA and JCS were trying to teach wokeness and high-tech weapons systems to illiterate Afghan army recruits until just before the cut-and-run.

I think we can unequivocally state that even if this would have been chaotic under Trump, it would have been a hell of a lot less chaotic. It would have focused on US citizens first. It wouldn't have ignored actionable intel of an impending suicide bomber. It wouldn't have doubled-down on the stupid by drone-striking non-ISIS Afghans including multiple children burned beyond recognition. It wouldn't have stranded 100s of US citizens.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Arlo

100,000 of whom. The majority of them aren't vetted and they're the equivalent of men disguised as women to clamber into the Titanic's lifeboats.

[mapuc]

^^ Ok so the Afghan army would have fought bravely if Trump had been president.

The People in Kabul would have behaved orderly not rushing to the airport, trying to hang on the the wheel house a.s.o. If Trump had been the President.

No it wouldn't make any different.

Markus

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by mapuc

^^ Ok so the Afghan army would have fought bravely if Trump had been president.

The People in Kabul would have behaved orderly not rushing to the airport, trying to hang on the the wheel house a.s.o. If Trump had been the President.

No it wouldn't make any different.

Markus

No one said the Afghans would fight bravely or the people would have not tried to rush the airport.

Under Trump - or *any* competent administration - we would have kept Bagram running, funneled US citizens and vetted Afghans through flights out of there, sent troops to escort them, and destroyed any military material that we weren't going to ship home.

Would they have been done by May under Trump? Maybe, maybe not. But he - or *any* competent administration - would have made it clear they were leaving on their timeline and would have a plan to kill every Taliban member who screwed with that process.

Volunteer former special forces soldiers should not have to be running rescue missions. They shouldn't also have the US Dept of State telling regional neighbors to not let them land aircraft. Random former military personnel should not have better Intel than the US government. Look, if the Biden admin is incompetent, that's one thing, but they shouldn't also be actively impeding people who can effect a rescue as well. Incompetence can be dealt with. Incompetence and evil, combined? Needs to be nuked from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

^^ Ok so the Afghan army would have fought bravely if Trump had been president.

The People in Kabul would have behaved orderly not rushing to the airport, trying to hang on the the wheel house a.s.o. If Trump had been the President.

No it wouldn't make any different.

Markus

No it would not have made a difference in Afghanistan. What changed was going from an immediate May 1st withdrawal. To extending the withdrawal to September 11th for a political party points. Only to find out in just a few weeks later and 170 more dead that sooner rather than later was actually a better idea.

We should have left long ago, long before May 1st, what happens in Afghanistan is up to the Afghans. Our military doesn’t exists to rescue people, build nations or for others to profit from. Get in kill the bad guys then get out, that didn’t happen. “War is a racket”

[mapuc]

^^ Your comment made me remember what a journalist expert on American politics said day before yesterday.

Biden isn't fit for this task. He said a lot more about the Biden administration and Afghanistan But I remember the sentence Biden isn't fit for this task.

As I mentioned in a former post

American forces is destroying weapons that had been left during withdrawal. This was in a Danish article.

I still wonder how they would have solved the chaos at the airport though.

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

What I tried to say was that it would have been chaos at the airport. Whoever is the President. And there's no doubt about it.

Markus

Well as we know a major part of the chaos around the airport is because it is the only exit portal and that's because Biden and his handlers set it up that way. So while i'm sure a Trump exit plan would have its share of chaos too it would not have been anything like we're seeing with the Democrats in charge.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by August

Well as we know a major part of the chaos around the airport is because it is the only exit portal and that's because Biden and his handlers set it up that way. So while i'm sure a Trump exit plan would have its share of chaos too it would not have been anything like we're seeing with the Democrats in charge.

Being an impressive strategist on everything related to the Afghanistan debacle, list the exit portals that should have been available and how (and how Trump, who couldn't even keep a casino in the black, would have shown 'his generals' how to do it).

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Mostly because several people here have expressed the fantasy that if Trump was president the Afghanistan withdrawal would have been as organized and simple as lining up to enter a ballpark. All that is just a made up story based on wishful thinking and no more accurate than me stating it would have been ten times worse if Trump was in charge.

Was it a perfect withdrawel? No, it wasn't, but saying how it should have been done now that it has been done any fool can spout.

As far as being sick and twisted that's just your opinion and my point was made. Why do you value the US soldiers lives over US citizens lives?

There is a right way and a wrong way to do certain things no matter who is in charge. Biden was in charge, He chose the wrong way. Speaking for myself, I have not speculated on whether Trump would have done better or not, I have focused on this incident and the man in charge of it.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

No one said the Afghans would fight bravely or the people would have not tried to rush the airport.

Under Trump - or *any* competent administration - we would have kept Bagram running, funneled US citizens and vetted Afghans through flights out of there, sent troops to escort them, and destroyed any military material that we weren't going to ship home.

Would they have been done by May under Trump? Maybe, maybe not. But he - or *any* competent administration - would have made it clear they were leaving on their timeline and would have a plan to kill every Taliban member who screwed with that process.

Volunteer former special forces soldiers should not have to be running rescue missions. They shouldn't also have the US Dept of State telling regional neighbors to not let them land aircraft. Random former military personnel should not have better Intel than the US government. Look, if the Biden admin is incompetent, that's one thing, but they shouldn't also be actively impeding people who can effect a rescue as well. Incompetence can be dealt with. Incompetence and evil, combined? Needs to be nuked from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Competence may be harder to evaluate than I think you allow. It could be said that brigadier-general William Crozier was incompetent for the personal fight he had with Lewis over the light machine gun. It could be said that General of the Armies Pershing was incompetent for causing 11,000 casualties by ordering soldiers over the wire just hours before the armistice. It could be said the MacArthur was incompetent for lack of tactical knowhow leading to large casualties among Australian and US forces in the Papua New Guinea fighting.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Competence may be harder to evaluate than I think you allow. It could be said that brigadier-general William Crozier was incompetent for the personal fight he had with Lewis over the light machine gun. It could be said that General of the Armies Pershing was incompetent for causing 11,000 casualties by ordering soldiers over the wire just hours before the armistice. It could be said the MacArthur was incompetent for lack of tactical knowhow leading to large casualties among Australian and US forces in the Papua New Guinea fighting.

Just like the center of a Tootsie Pop - the world will never know.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by mapuc

^^ Your comment made me remember what a journalist expert on American politics said day before yesterday.

Biden isn't fit for this task. He said a lot more about the Biden administration and Afghanistan But I remember the sentence Biden isn't fit for this task.

As I mentioned in a former post

American forces is destroying weapons that had been left during withdrawal. This was in a Danish article.

I still wonder how they would have solved the chaos at the airport though.

Markus

Biden isn't just not fit for this task, he isn't fit for office. That was 100% obvious last summer to anyone who didn't have Trump Derangement Syndrome when his wranglers kept "calling a lid" before noon and limiting his personal interactions with the public. Dementia sufferers are well-known as being lucid early in the day and they drift into dementia as the day progresses.

Also, watch how he walks sometimes with his stuttering gait and short steps - classic dementia-sufferer symptom or potentially Parkinson's. Look up the term gait apraxia.

I've stated previously *how* to control the chaos. The troops on the ground are generally never the cause of problems - they've always done their jobs. It's a complete failure of leadership that is the problem - when indecisiveness or incompetence are in charge, well, you get what happened here in Kabul.

[Arlo]

You keep typing 'Biden' then give an in depth description of Trump. But you don't see that, do you?

[MaDef]

Really, really, really
Why do you keep injecting Trump into a discussion about Biden and his actions? Is it because Biden has no defense and so deflection is your pis aller?