Silent Hunter 1 - Is it ok to share?

BlightLightning · 05-27-07, 01:49 AM

Can anyone tell me if it is ok to give away copies of Silent Hunter 1. I can't get it to run on Xp, and Xp won't allow access to the ntfs file system from a floppy boot. I think I may get an older computer, maybe 486 or something for these old games...

Anyway, some people are still interested it the first release of Silent Hunter, and
I have it ready on file front, but I don't want any problems with copyright police! Tried this, tried that but the web sites are automated. Seems this game no longer exhists.

So-ooooo....

Should I release it, or shouldn't I? What would you do?

goldorak · 05-27-07, 01:53 AM

Simply use the latest version of dosbox.
Silent Hunter I works like a charm.

Don't share it, it is still a copyright work and has not been made public domain.

BlightLightning · 05-27-07, 02:46 AM

I tried contacting Strategic Solutions Inc. but it seems they no longer exhist. The company is gone and no-one bought the rights for this old dos game. It isn't possible, at least for me, to check and see if the copyright has been renewed when the game seems to only exhist in the memories of other people. The copyright for it appearently ran out in 2002, and the deadline for re-applying, (a "no-one grabbed it yet" clause) acording to an in-accessable statute of limitations for a valueless game, closed two years later. Not only that, but the reliability of my sources is questionable and hazy!

I believe this to be one of many left in limbo. Hopefully forgotten for the benefit of newer game sales! I think I have tried everything, and even put a bit too much work into such a small item. If anyone has any ideas on how to ask for permission, to share it, I would be most interested. I think it is more "The thrill of the chase" at this point.

Tracking this issue has spiked my curiousity!

BlightLightning · 05-27-07, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldorak

Simply use the latest version of dosbox.
Silent Hunter I works like a charm.

Don't share it, it is still a copyright work and has not been made public domain.

I downloaded this box and there are zero bytes free on drive c ! It can only access the root directory but there is no room left there...

Any Ideas on how to get it to work? I can't seem to jump-start SH.exe. A batch file perhaps (.bat), with the right calls or...

Something

robbierob2005 · 05-27-07, 04:55 AM

download dosbox and install it. Then download dfend and install it.
Make sure your sh1 files are in a folder on your drive.
Run dfend and make a profile for sh1. Just play with all the options. You'll see. It will work.

Immacolata · 05-27-07, 05:27 AM

SSI was bought by UBI AFAIK. So they most likely hold the rights to all games with that name, as well as all other SSI titles they bought back then. Which is why they can publish SH3 and SH4

As for sharing, you are breaking the copyright and that could bring both you and filefront into trouble. Most likely they will nuke the files if they find out. You might possibly get a nastygram from ubi lawyers too.

John Channing · 05-27-07, 06:50 AM

This would be considered warez and any reference to it could result in a permanent ban from Subsim.com.

In other words, No.

JCC

Immacolata · 05-27-07, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

This would be considered warez and any reference to it could result in a permanent ban from Subsim.com.

JCC

Oh, I forgot, a piracy induced perma ban from subsim.com on top of it all

SirMoric · 05-27-07, 07:35 AM

What is the point of a company holding on to a game that's that old? Noone buys it anymore and if they relaunch it only a few will.

I do understand they hold onto the name, but the game??

rgds

CaptainHaplo · 05-27-07, 08:08 AM

To the moderators - I totally understand the "warez" issue. At least he asked and is trying to find out honestly the status. I figure thats why you posted the warning instead of shutting this down.

As to the question - if the copyright expired and was never renewed - it would be considered no longer protected and thus in the public domain. HOWEVER - never assume. Email the "brand" holder - in this case Ubi - and inquire as to its status. Feel free to include a request that if it is still under "protection", Ubi release it freely as it no longer serves any purpose to keep it under lock and key. This allows the game to be distributed if they do so - but they retain all rights to the brand, etc.

John Channing · 05-27-07, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMoric

What is the point of a company holding on to a game that's that old? Noone buys it anymore and if they relaunch it only a few will.

I do understand they hold onto the name, but the game??

rgds

Because it is their property to do with as they please. They paid for it, so it is their call. I have a lot of stuff in my home that I no longer use on a regular or frequent basis, but that doesn't mean that anyone can just take it.

JCC

John Channing · 05-27-07, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

To the moderators - I totally understand the "warez" issue. At least he asked and is trying to find out honestly the status. I figure thats why you posted the warning instead of shutting this down.

As to the question - if the copyright expired and was never renewed - it would be considered no longer protected and thus in the public domain. HOWEVER - never assume. Email the "brand" holder - in this case Ubi - and inquire as to its status. Feel free to include a request that if it is still under "protection", Ubi release it freely as it no longer serves any purpose to keep it under lock and key. This allows the game to be distributed if they do so - but they retain all rights to the brand, etc.

I am not a lawyer, but I think the copygight protection extends more than 10 years.

And I certainly do appreciate someone asking first.

JCC

orangenee · 05-27-07, 10:59 AM

I think most copyrights are good for about a 100 years or so after they're made.

Immacolata · 05-27-07, 11:58 AM

I think it is 75 years from creation of the work. That is an awful lot of time, as patents last way shorter. One should never say that because its old its no longer of any valuee. Ninty are releasing their old treasure troves of NES and SNES games on the Wii now for a pittance.

It is only fair that they who paid for it back in the days also get to decide when to start selling it again.

As for SH1, I doubt it will be re-released again, but who knows. In some years Ubi soft might decide to offer their entire back catalog as cheap downloads

Onkel Neal · 05-27-07, 12:30 PM

Quote:

SirMoric: What is the point of a company holding on to a game that's that old? Noone buys it anymore and if they relaunch it only a few will.

I do understand they hold onto the name, but the game??

Abandonware, which is copyright infringement of older games that are not sold by the original company, or a derivative. The strict legal reading of copyright laws says we cannot distribute old games. There is the valid point that these older games are also a part of the historical fabric of the computer game genesis, and they are clearly "abandoned" by the copyright owner. One of the most prominent questions centers on the timing. Games were originally issued on fragile media: 5.25 soft floppies, diskettes, and tape. Individuals who want to honor the copyrights but do not wish to see the titles disappear forever face a paradox; if they wait the 70 years after the owner dies (or 95 if held by a company), there is no doubt the works will be lost forever. Would we stand by and allow a short story by Milton or Hugo disappear forever if the situation was similar? I'm not suggesting Up Periscope or Silent Hunter I are on the same stage with classic literature, but they certainly are the forbears of a new entertainment medium and have significant value for history.

Subsim's policy has always been to respect copyrights, and we cannot allow links to warez sites. Abandonware is a little more vague. My concern is that if Subsim opens the door a crack for 15 year old subsims with little or no commercial value being traded as abandonware, people will quickly push the door open wwith posts about torrents and pirating newer games.

The first step is to contact the copyright owner and buy or negotiate the release of the rights. That also is a problem, many games outlived the entities that created them, and it is frequently difficult if not impossible to untangle the ownership question.

If that fails, what seems to be common today is to circumvent the copyrights in a low-key way that preserves the work but does not cause undue financial harm to the copyright owner. Sort of like driving through a red traffic light that has malfunctioned and stays red, even after you have been sitting there 4 minutes with no traffic.

Who wouldn't like to check out the pioneers of this hobby? Would we pay a nominal fee to the original owner to do so? Most of us would, there is honor in respecting the work of others. But if you cannot buy the right to play the title, it honors the owner to preserve his work for history.

Ideally, and this may happen eventually, copyright laws will catch up to technology, and there could be special, sensible provisions for digital media. Such as, when a game has not been sold for 5-10 years, the owner has the obligation to offer the game for sale or for courtesy distribution.

Quote:

BlightLightning: I tried contacting Strategic Solutions Inc. but it seems they no longer exhist. The company is gone and no-one bought the rights for this old dos game. It isn't possible, at least for me, to check and see if the copyright has been renewed when the game seems to only exhist in the memories of other people. The copyright for it appearently ran out in 2002, and the deadline for re-applying, (a "no-one grabbed it yet" clause) acording to an in-accessable statute of limitations for a valueless game, closed two years later. Not only that, but the reliability of my sources is questionable and hazy!

I believe this to be one of many left in limbo. Hopefully forgotten for the benefit of newer game sales! I think I have tried everything, and even put a bit too much work into such a small item. If anyone has any ideas on how to ask for permission, to share it, I would be most interested. I think it is more "The thrill of the chase" at this point.

Tracking this issue has spiked my curiousity!

SSI is owned by Ubisoft. That is who you will want to contact. With the same company releasing SH4 this year, we cannot allow links to sharing SH1. People who want SH1 can easily buy it through eBay and Amazon. Even used copies are preferable to bootlegs for honest people.

I don't know where you get the copyright "ran out in 2002". If you could PM me with details, I'll look into it.

I agree, many older games risk being in limbo and are worth preserving. SHI is not that old, though. Let's check into a possibility of getting the rights. Otherwise, people should check Amazon, they can still get a copy there.

thanks
Neal

Additional reading:

Abandonwarez: the pros outweigh the cons by Jeremiah Kauffman.

05-27-07, 01:49 AM	#1
BlightLightning Mate Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 58 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Silent Hunter 1 - Is it ok to share? Can anyone tell me if it is ok to give away copies of Silent Hunter 1. I can't get it to run on Xp, and Xp won't allow access to the ntfs file system from a floppy boot. I think I may get an older computer, maybe 486 or something for these old games... Anyway, some people are still interested it the first release of Silent Hunter, and I have it ready on file front, but I don't want any problems with copyright police! Tried this, tried that but the web sites are automated. Seems this game no longer exhists. So-ooooo.... Should I release it, or shouldn't I? What would you do?

05-27-07, 02:46 AM	#3
BlightLightning Mate Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 58 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Silent Hunter 1 I tried contacting Strategic Solutions Inc. but it seems they no longer exhist. The company is gone and no-one bought the rights for this old dos game. It isn't possible, at least for me, to check and see if the copyright has been renewed when the game seems to only exhist in the memories of other people. The copyright for it appearently ran out in 2002, and the deadline for re-applying, (a "no-one grabbed it yet" clause) acording to an in-accessable statute of limitations for a valueless game, closed two years later. Not only that, but the reliability of my sources is questionable and hazy! I believe this to be one of many left in limbo. Hopefully forgotten for the benefit of newer game sales! I think I have tried everything, and even put a bit too much work into such a small item. If anyone has any ideas on how to ask for permission, to share it, I would be most interested. I think it is more "The thrill of the chase" at this point. Tracking this issue has spiked my curiousity!

05-27-07, 05:27 AM	#6
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	SSI was bought by UBI AFAIK. So they most likely hold the rights to all games with that name, as well as all other SSI titles they bought back then. Which is why they can publish SH3 and SH4 As for sharing, you are breaking the copyright and that could bring both you and filefront into trouble. Most likely they will nuke the files if they find out. You might possibly get a nastygram from ubi lawyers too. __________________ "The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious, and the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." - W. Churchill

05-27-07, 08:08 AM	#10
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	To the moderators - I totally understand the "warez" issue. At least he asked and is trying to find out honestly the status. I figure thats why you posted the warning instead of shutting this down. As to the question - if the copyright expired and was never renewed - it would be considered no longer protected and thus in the public domain. HOWEVER - never assume. Email the "brand" holder - in this case Ubi - and inquire as to its status. Feel free to include a request that if it is still under "protection", Ubi release it freely as it no longer serves any purpose to keep it under lock and key. This allows the game to be distributed if they do so - but they retain all rights to the brand, etc. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

05-27-07, 11:58 AM	#14
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I think it is 75 years from creation of the work. That is an awful lot of time, as patents last way shorter. One should never say that because its old its no longer of any valuee. Ninty are releasing their old treasure troves of NES and SNES games on the Wii now for a pittance. It is only fair that they who paid for it back in the days also get to decide when to start selling it again. As for SH1, I doubt it will be re-released again, but who knows. In some years Ubi soft might decide to offer their entire back catalog as cheap downloads __________________ "The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious, and the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." - W. Churchill

05-27-07, 01:53 AM	#2
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Simply use the latest version of dosbox. Silent Hunter I works like a charm. Don't share it, it is still a copyright work and has not been made public domain.

05-27-07, 04:55 AM	#5
robbierob2005 Watch Officer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Beneath the surface..... Posts: 334 Downloads: 83 Uploads: 0	download dosbox and install it. Then download dfend and install it. Make sure your sh1 files are in a folder on your drive. Run dfend and make a profile for sh1. Just play with all the options. You'll see. It will work.

05-27-07, 06:50 AM	#7
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 156 Uploads: 5	This would be considered warez and any reference to it could result in a permanent ban from Subsim.com. In other words, No. JCC

05-27-07, 07:35 AM	#9
SirMoric Seaman Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 33 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	What is the point of a company holding on to a game that's that old? Noone buys it anymore and if they relaunch it only a few will. I do understand they hold onto the name, but the game?? rgds

05-27-07, 10:59 AM	#13
orangenee Engineer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 211 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think most copyrights are good for about a 100 years or so after they're made.